Who created all things: God or the Son?

[Muffled]

Genesis 1:1 - ‘In the beginning GOD created [all things]…’

John 1:1 - ‘In the beginning [THE WORD] created all things’

You all know the full verses … But clearly there is a problem - the two claims do not agree!

Who, exactly, is ‘God’?

Where did the WORD come from?

We know the ALMIGHTY word spoken BY God that created a things in the beginning, don’t we? What was it? Was it not: ‘Let there be light!’

Specifically, who are these words attributed to: God, or The Word…

Or is it sensibly just, ‘The word of God’, that created all things?

Reading further in Genesis, you will find absolutely no reference ‘The Word’… (as in ‘Son of God’ / Jesus)… is that strange seeing that certain Christian groups clearly claim that it was ‘Jesus’ who created all things (‘God created everything through him, and nothing was created except through him.’ (John 1:3)

Not only does that verse alter the creation story in Genesis but it puts in place an entity that was never mentioned in Genesis. In fact, never mentioned in any verse anywhere in the whole of the Old Testament.

Here, in John 1: 1-3 we have an entirely new ‘person’ who is also claimed to be GOD… ‘The Word’.

But, again, nothing of ‘The Word’ is stated in the Old Testament. And even after Jesus does appear as the messiah, he himself says nothing about having created anything (carried out the greatest event in the whole of world activity!)

I do ponder, though, that the term, ‘Father’, means: ‘Creator, Bringer into being, Giver of life’, yet Jesus (or ‘the word’) is not attributed to this term. Instead, an entity of God, exactly called, ‘The Father’, is attributed to creation!

In fact, BOTH ‘GOD’ and ‘The Father’ are stated as ‘Creating all things’, which logically the two go together!! AND, Jesus, on appearing as a man on earth (that it’s claimed he created by some Christian groups) clearly states that he can do nothing except what he sees God (or the Father) doing first. In fact, he, Jesus was ‘Taught by God/The Father how and what to do and say’.

So, how is it that Jesus/The Son is supposed to have carried out the greatest event of all time (!!) and yet has to be taught how to exist in that event? This is a problem when we are expected to believe that Jesus pre-existed, and is therefore a Spirit (that’s a problem in itself as the only spirits we know of at the time of creation are God and the angels - and we know God created the angels - or did Jesus/the Son/the word?) and not a man (human/flesh being).

Can anyone throw light on this huge anomaly - a conundrum of almighty importance in Christian scriptural matters?

I believe Jesus, the son of God is God in the flesh and as God created all things.

 

[Trailblazer]

I believe Jesus, the son of God is God in the flesh and as God created all things.

Jesus cannot be the Son of God and also God since the Son is not the Father.
I believe that God created all things and Jesus did not create anything.

 

[Soapy]

I believe Jesus, the son of God is God in the flesh and as God created all things.

The Son OF God is the Father, the almighty, the one Jesus Christ called, ‘The one true God’?

• ‘This means life that they should come to believe that YOU (Father) are the one true God’!
• “You are worthy, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, for you created all things, and by your will they were created and have their being.”

 

[Tomef]

Genesis 1:1 - ‘In the beginning GOD created [all things]…’

John 1:1 - ‘In the beginning [THE WORD] created all things’

You all know the full verses … But clearly there is a problem - the two claims do not agree!

Who, exactly, is ‘God’?

Where did the WORD come from?

We know the ALMIGHTY word spoken BY God that created a things in the beginning, don’t we? What was it? Was it not: ‘Let there be light!’

Specifically, who are these words attributed to: God, or The Word…

Or is it sensibly just, ‘The word of God’, that created all things?

Reading further in Genesis, you will find absolutely no reference ‘The Word’… (as in ‘Son of God’ / Jesus)… is that strange seeing that certain Christian groups clearly claim that it was ‘Jesus’ who created all things (‘God created everything through him, and nothing was created except through him.’ (John 1:3)

Not only does that verse alter the creation story in Genesis but it puts in place an entity that was never mentioned in Genesis. In fact, never mentioned in any verse anywhere in the whole of the Old Testament.

Here, in John 1: 1-3 we have an entirely new ‘person’ who is also claimed to be GOD… ‘The Word’.

But, again, nothing of ‘The Word’ is stated in the Old Testament. And even after Jesus does appear as the messiah, he himself says nothing about having created anything (carried out the greatest event in the whole of world activity!)

I do ponder, though, that the term, ‘Father’, means: ‘Creator, Bringer into being, Giver of life’, yet Jesus (or ‘the word’) is not attributed to this term. Instead, an entity of God, exactly called, ‘The Father’, is attributed to creation!

In fact, BOTH ‘GOD’ and ‘The Father’ are stated as ‘Creating all things’, which logically the two go together!! AND, Jesus, on appearing as a man on earth (that it’s claimed he created by some Christian groups) clearly states that he can do nothing except what he sees God (or the Father) doing first. In fact, he, Jesus was ‘Taught by God/The Father how and what to do and say’.

So, how is it that Jesus/The Son is supposed to have carried out the greatest event of all time (!!) and yet has to be taught how to exist in that event? This is a problem when we are expected to believe that Jesus pre-existed, and is therefore a Spirit (that’s a problem in itself as the only spirits we know of at the time of creation are God and the angels - and we know God created the angels - or did Jesus/the Son/the word?) and not a man (human/flesh being).

Can anyone throw light on this huge anomaly - a conundrum of almighty importance in Christian scriptural matters?

Why not just read the full verse, you spanner?

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.”
‭‭John‬ ‭1‬:‭1‬-‭3‬ ‭ESV‬‬

John 1:1-2 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. | English Standard Version 2016 (ESV) | Download The Bible App Now

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God.

bible.com

Don’t you understand the words ‘with’ and ‘through’? How is it that even people who don’t believe in fantasy gods can see how daft your basic errors are?

 

[Soapy]

Why not just read the full verse, you spanner?

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.”
‭‭John‬ ‭1‬:‭1‬-‭3‬ ‭ESV‬‬

John 1:1-2 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. | English Standard Version 2016 (ESV) | Download The Bible App Now

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God.

bible.com

Don’t you understand the words ‘with’ and ‘through’? How is it that even people who don’t believe in fantasy gods can see how daft your basic errors are?

What is my ‘Basic Error’?

I don’t mind opposition to truth if you present a reason for it since then at least I can see why and where you began your misunderstanding.

It’s easy when you are afraid of the truth just to say, ‘You are a spanner… can’t you see how daft your basic errors are?’ and then sign off.

But when one of the questions was ‘What is the Word?’, then your responds doesn’t cut the mustard, does it? More like a ‘I don’t have a clue so I’ll just kneejerk something I regard as witty!’ but is actually just inane and empty, devoid of intelligence, and unhelpful.

Do you want to try again but this time with worthy scriptural value in your post?

 

[Tomef]

What is my ‘Basic Error’?

I don’t mind opposition to truth if you present a reason for it since then at least I can see why and where you began your misunderstanding.

It’s easy when you are afraid of the truth just to say, ‘You are a spanner… can’t you see how daft your basic errors are?’ and then sign off.

But when one of the questions was ‘What is the Word?’, then your responds doesn’t cut the mustard, does it? More like a ‘I don’t have a clue so I’ll just kneejerk something I regard as witty!’ but is actually just inane and empty, devoid of intelligence, and unhelpful.

Do you want to try again but this time with worthy scriptural value in your post?

Your threads, and tbh I don’t know why I read them, appear to indicate an inability to read. But clearly you can read, so…just what is the issue you have?

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made…. And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.”

Do you really need this to be explained to you?
Whoever wrote this says this ‘word’ was with god, and was god. So whatever this word is, it is both separate to (with) and the same (was). Whether this makes any sense is another question, but that is what it says. It then refers to this word as a person - he, and states this person, he, was - once again - with god. Apparently all things were made through him - whatever that means, through does not mean by. The text then goes on to say that this word became a person, and lived among other people, and that he was, apparently, the only son sent by ‘the father’.

While there’s certainly something mysterious in that none of this makes any real sense, the writer’s intended meaning is clear. Once again however, you don’t appear to be satisfied until you cook up some mind numbingly nonsensical spin. I don’t know why it bothers me, I mean it makes no difference to me, but something in me is somehow offended by such idiotic wasting of time. It bothers me that there is someone somewhere wasting their time on such stupidity when they could be doing something useful.