Why people do what other people tell them to do

[Heyo]

What is freedom?

Freedom is the ability to say "no".

Seriously...why do people do what other people tell them to do?

Because many people are stupid.

And why are there so many bossy people who tell other people what they are supposed to do?

Because some people are smart - and ruthless.

If you have the ambition to have something done, you need the power to do it yourself or have other people do it for you. Getting things done efficiently is smart - but at the same time, forcing or tricking people to do what they won't by themselves is immoral.

 

[Estro Felino]

I suspect one of the above becomes a powerful driving force. We are subject to subconscious influences such as instinct.
Not everyone to the same degree. My guess is, from what you've said, you don't feel a particularly strong drive to reproduce but do feel a compulsion to justify your position.
If I were to go religious on you I'd say that we can't know true freedom unless we know what it is to be enslaved. You cannot ascend if your already above where you wish to ascend to.

As a Christian I believe that the notion of suffering as something necessary to grow up spiritually is a big lie.

We must eliminate suffering. So...if we lived in a just world without greedy and money-hungry, bossy tyrants...well...that is a world where to raise your children.
But since we don't live in that world...it's better not to have kids. Let's fix the world, first.
The problem is not me. It's the enslavers. The bossy people.

Hardly. You think having kids is the only method of enslavement? For instance, not having kids might enslave you to your ignorance in what it means to parents that they have had children.

For example... I didn't create a human being that will be victimized by the devilish anarcho-capitalistic system. That's wonderful.
That makes me feel good and a better person.

There are myriads of ways human beings are enslaved. I think, mostly, we enslave ourselves.

Well...I believe in a spiritual world, which is reachable after we die. There are not slaves or masters in that world.

 

[Estro Felino]

If you have the ambition to have something done, you need the power to do it yourself or have other people do it for you. Getting things done efficiently is smart - but at the same time, forcing or tricking people to do what they won't by themselves is immoral.

Very good point.
But it's all about the power-holders who must ask to themselves: "Am I giving this order to others to reach something the entire community will benefit from?" or "Am I giving this order to others to reach my own personal, egoistical goals (like money-hunger, power-hunger, etc...).
That is up to the person's conscience.

 

[Heyo]

Very good point.
But it's all about the power-holders who must ask to themselves: "Am I giving this order to others to reach something the entire community will benefit from?" or "Am I giving this order to others to reach my own personal, egoistical goals (like money-hunger, power-hunger, etc...).
That is up to the person's conscience.

The problem is that people who come into positions of power rarely have a conscience.

As the great philosopher said: "It is a well-known fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it... anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job."

 

[lewisnotmiller]

With government, it's ultimately the barrel of a gun.
With employees, it's not getting paid.

This suggests I should stop pointing a gun at my team, and switch to wage withholding...

 

[Revoltingest]

Exactly. Because the individual can do nothing without the cooperation of others.
If the individual doesn't like the State or the Government, he should live on a desert island.

That would be your choice, not mine.
Some other options...
- Remain cuz it's still preferred over other countries.
- Remain cuz one can work to effect change.
- Remain cuz emigration isn't practical.
- Remain cuz a desert island would be miserable.

 

[Revoltingest]

This suggests I should stop pointing a gun at my team, and switch to wage withholding...

You'd save money and bullets.

 

[Stevicus]

Exactly.
But people make the wrong decision under pressure.
If people respected other people, the world would be a better place.

Yes, that does happen. A salesperson might believe in the idea of "never take 'no' for an answer," so they will persist even after being told "no" multiple times. A con artist might use manipulative tricks to get some unwitting sucker to part with their money.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

You'd save money and bullets.

Oh, I rarely actually fire the gun at them. It's not like the old days...we have HR departments now, and they frown on that sort of thing.

 

[Revoltingest]

Oh, I rarely actually fire the gun at them. It's not like the old days...we have HR departments now, and they frown on that sort of thing.

And on the up-kilt cameras in the loo.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

And on the up-kilt cameras in the loo.

At least here, they got very suspicious when I made Tuesday 'Mandatory Kilt Day'.

 

[Revoltingest]

At least here, they got very suspicious when I made Tuesday 'Mandatory Kilt Day'.

Groundless paranoia.

 

[PureX]

What is freedom?
Freedom is when you do what you want to do. When you are free to decide.
Slavery is when you do what other people tell you to do.

Well, technically, that's 'free will', not 'freedom'. And really, none of us are all that free in the sense that there are many things we might want to do or be that we simply cannot ever do or be. So that freedom is quite a relative condition.

And slavery is not so much a lack of free will as it is a form of robbery; wherein one person steals for himself the fruits of another persons efforts. We are all being forced to labor for our survival by reality itself, but we don't all put the same degree of effort into it, or receive the benefits commensurate with that effort. The thieves and parasites among us are always looking for ways to steal the results of other people's efforts to benefit themselves.

That is sad.

Yes, it is. And it's sadder still is that instead of stopping this parasitic thievery, we condone it. Even praise it as "clever" and "masterful" and we justify it via some Darwinian sophistry.

Despite millennia of evolution people are just disoriented and imitate others, or repeat others' actions, like copycats.
I think that creates a horrific, vicious cycle or errors, and errors.

Yes, it does. We learn and then forget the same lessons over and over.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Exactly, that was her mistake. I am blaming her.
In fact the point of this thread is: why do so many people (like my friend) do what others tell them to do?

We must never forget that we are a social animal -- we need and want the approval and support of others, both in our group and sometimes even from outside it. For that reason, when we feel we can, we like to do that which we think will please others, in the hope that when the time comes, they will do the same for us.

But we are also a thinking animal -- we can default from the "slavery" of social necessity, and sometimes that is in fact the best thing to do.

 

[Estro Felino]

We must never forget that we are a social animal -- we need and want the approval and support of others, both in our group and sometimes even from outside it. For that reason, when we feel we can, we like to do that which we think will please others, in the hope that when the time comes, they will do the same for us.

That's a very interesting analysis, anthropologically speaking,

But we are also a thinking animal -- we can default from the "slavery" of social necessity, and sometimes that is in fact the best thing to do.

I agree.

 

[Estro Felino]

Well, technically, that's 'free will', not 'freedom'. And really, none of us are all that free in the sense that there are many things we might want to do or be that we simply cannot ever do or be. So that freedom is quite a relative condition.

If I lived on a desert island, I would be free to do whatever I want. I would be 100% free.

And do you know why? Because as J.P. Sastre said, L'enfer, c'est les autres. It's the other people the problem, not us.
The others limit our free will.
So our life must necessarily be focused on doing anything to respect other people's free will.
As the others must do anything not to disrespect ours. It would be a paradise, this Earth.

But people are wicked and selfish...so they destroy people's lives because they consider themselves superior to others.
They have an incredibly big volition... a volition that undoes other's will.

And slavery is not so much a lack of free will as it is a form of robbery; wherein one person steals for himself the fruits of another persons efforts.

What the banking system does.
By the by, the old Rothschild died last February.
They are all dying....

Yes, it is. And it's sadder still is that instead of stopping this parasitic thievery, we condone it. Even praise it as "clever" and "masterful" and we justify it via some Darwinian sophistry.

Because people don't think.
They do what others do or what others tell them to do.

Yes, it does. We learn and then forget the same lessons over and over.

That's not true.
Europe has been at peace for 80 years...so we have learned the lesson.

 

[setarcos]

As a Christian I believe that the notion of suffering as something necessary to grow up spiritually is a big lie.

The point is, suffering is inevitable. We grow up spiritually despite that suffering. Christ suffered for even those who denounced him. If you don't at least suffer sympathetically or empathetically for others in this current world then you've missed his message.

We must eliminate suffering.

That's not within our capability. Hence the need for Christ. We might seek to alleviate suffering to various degrees but we cannot eliminate suffering without God. This would include of course mental and well as physical suffering.

So...if we lived in a just world without greedy and money-hungry, bossy tyrants...well...that is a world where to raise your children.

If you read your scriptures I'm not sure we'll have children in the traditional sense after Christs return.
We have children and raise them in this world because that is the current essence of being human. Scripture says we shall be tested as in a fire. That includes the process of having children in an imperfect world. Not once does scripture advocate for not having children. Quite the contrary, in several places it emphasizes the importance of having a family regardless of the ills of the world.

But since we don't live in that world...it's better not to have kids. Let's fix the world, first.

God mad humans to procreate and thrive. That humans have mucked up the environment to do that in does not eliminate the basic human drives we were originally created with. IF we would be perfect we could all adapt to the current situations we find ourselves in without struggling to make the most appropriate choices. But we are not perfected yet are we. We are in the process. Thus for many humans the drive to have children is persistent and pervasive despite the conditions not being ideal. Of note though is the fact that our birthrates are collectively starting to decline worldwide but this is less due to a sudden collective increase in wise choices but more of a symptom of an unhealthy world.
Because you seem to find it not much of a struggle to choose not to have children does not mean others shouldn't struggle with the option as well.

The problem is not me. It's the enslavers. The bossy people.

Your choice to not have children is not a problem - unless you wish to but can't or your mate wishes to but you don't. Then it may be a problem for you or your mate but that does not define you as the problem.
Technically, even in an idealized world the mere act of having children enslaves you to your children's needs. Such enslavement is not necessarily a bad thing. There can be corollary benefits despite the costs. Having a family itself causes spiritual growth when its healthy.
Humanity was created as a gregarious species. That gregariousness is best routed through family. Not having a family may simply make an unhealthy environment for the individual more unhealthy.

For example... I didn't create a human being that will be victimized by the devilish anarcho-capitalistic system. That's wonderful.
That makes me feel good and a better person.

If that makes you feel good and consequentially a better person by being capable of treating others better then I'm glad for you.
Not everyone births a child with the firm conviction that it will be victimized by the "devilish anarcho-capitalistic" system your speaking of though. Many parents have children in the hopes that that child will grow to help make the future a better place for themselves or others not a worse one.
Saying its wonderful is misplaced zealousness I think. What would be wonderful is not having your immediate environment dictate whether or not you can do what your healthy procreative drive compels you to do.

Well...I believe in a spiritual world, which is reachable after we die. There are not slaves or masters in that world.

We can only hope.
In the mean time we are stuck with what we a stuck with. In an ideal environment do you think you would like to have children? If so I cannot help but think that it is a struggle for you currently. If you do not care whether you have children or not - if you lack that drive - then you don't make the best spokesperson for not having children in this world since you wouldn't truly be capable of empathizing with those who do.
Gods blessings be upon you.