Plain Agnostics - Do you believe in God or not?

[godmachine]

I find it a little frustrating when theists and/or atheists apply labels to me that I find inappropriate. They do not know what I believe or disbelieve but they make assumptions based on the label that I choose for myself as most appropriate. I am the one most qualified to choose the most appropriate label for myself. I take issue when someone says "No, that's not what you are....you're what I say you are." I also take issue when someone says I have to choose between this or that but I cannot choose something else. Faced with such a choice I will ALWAYS choose something else.

 

[Desert Snake]

I find it a little frustrating when theists and/or atheists apply labels to me that I find inappropriate. They do not know what I believe or disbelieve but they make assumptions based on the label that I choose for myself as most appropriate. I am the one most qualified to choose the most appropriate label for myself. I take issue when someone says "No, that's not what you are....you're what I say you are." I also take issue when someone says I have to choose between this or that but I cannot choose something else. Faced with such a choice I will ALWAYS choose something else.

I've noticed that atheists sometimes seem to have a little difficulty with the term "agnostic". I think sometimes this stems from not fully understanding what "atheism" means, or just not taking the time to become familiar with the differences in the terms "atheist", "agnostic", and "theist".

Sometimes, as is the case in this thread, it is because the person may be under the wrong belief that agnosticism is a form of atheism.
Anyways, if people choose to combine these terms then that is their own personal chice, however all three terms have distinct meaning.

 

[Fraleyight]

I've noticed that atheists sometimes seem to have a little difficulty with the term "agnostic". I think sometimes this stems from not fully understanding what "atheism" means, or just not taking the time to become familiar with the differences in the terms "atheist", "agnostic", and "theist".

Sometimes, as is the case in this thread, it is because the person may be under the wrong belief that agnosticism is a form of atheism.
Anyways, if people choose to combine these terms then that is their own personal chice, however all three terms have distinct meaning.

This has already been explained to you by multiple people itt alone. I am done with this conversation if you choose to not use the technical definition that is on you.. Have a nice day.

 

[Desert Snake]

This has already been explained to you by multiple people itt alone. I am done with this conversation if you choose to not use the technical definition that is on you.. Have a nice day.

You're the one not using the technical definition of "agnosticism". After all this conversation and you still don't even understand what these terms mean and how they differ.

 

[Desert Snake]

Q. Does a diety(ies) exist?

Atheist: No

Theist: Yes

Agnostic: I don't know

^ My first post on this thread. This should have basically answered the OP.

 

[Fraleyight]

^ My first post on this thread. This should have basically answered the OP.

I can't believe this conversation continues. I agree with your first post. However it is misleading because being an agnostic has nothing to do with being a theist/atheist. They are two different questions. This has already been explained to you.

 

[Fraleyight]

The technical, historical definition, that most of us here on RF use, describes someone who doesn't claim to know whether god exists or not.

This definition has nothing to do with belief; it has to do with knowledge. I can (and do) believe that god does not exist, but I do not know this for sure, hence I am an agnostic atheist.[/quote]
I don't know how much clearer you want this spelled out for you disciple.

 

[Desert Snake]

The technical, historical definition, that most of us here on RF use, describes someone who doesn't claim to know whether god exists or not.

This definition has nothing to do with belief; it has to do with knowledge. I can (and do) believe that god does not exist, but I do not know this for sure, hence I am an agnostic atheist.
I don't know how much clearer you want this spelled out for you disciple.

Wrong, again. Agnosticism is separate from theism or atheism. It has a different meaning. You can argue all you want about this.
A person can be an agnostic, an atheist, or a theist all seperately from one another.
It's pointless trying to discuss this with you because you're not actually trying to learn anything.

I suggest Wikipedia. Anyways, this discussion is pointless so you can take it up with someone else.

 

[Fraleyight]

Wrong, again. Agnosticism is separate from theism or atheism. It has a different meaning. You can argue all you want about this.
A person can be an agnostic, an atheist, or a theist all seperately from one another.
It's pointless trying to discuss this with you because you're not actually trying to learn anything.

I suggest Wikipedia. Anyways, this discussion is pointless so you can take it up with someone else.

I am sorry but I have a firm grasp on the meaning of Agnostic Gnostic Atheism and Theism. There is not much you can teach me from your lack of knowledge on the subject.

and again quit using wiki as a source it is not a reliable one.

 

[Desert Snake]

I am sorry but I have a firm grasp on the meaning of Agnostic Gnostic Atheism and Theism. There is not much you can teach me from your lack of knowledge on the subject.

You don't seem to have much of a grasp on the definition of agnostic, as you have been constantly saying that it is a form of atheism, what you are referring to as "default mode" lol, whereas in actuality Agnosticism does not have to be theistic or atheistic.

 

[Fraleyight]

You don't seem to have much of a grasp on the definition of agnostic, as you have been constantly saying that it is a form of atheism, what you are referring to as "default mode" lol, whereas in actuality Agnosticism does not have to be theistic or atheistic.

I never said agnostic was the same thing as Atheism. I simply said if you do not believe in any deity you are an Atheist. You can be an agnostic Theist. I have been saying all along gnosticism and theism are two different questions. They are not addressing the same issue.

 

[Desert Snake]

I never said agnostic was the same thing as Atheism. I simply said if you do not believe in any deity you are an Atheist.

And I disagree with that. Anyways that's a subject for another thread.

 

[Fraleyight]

And I disagree with that. Anyways that's a subject for another thread.

Ok let me ask you this. Where does someone who claims they are gnostic stand? Why do we even need the word gnostic if an agnostic is simply in the middle?

 

[Desert Snake]

Ok let me ask you this. Where does someone who claims they are gnostic stand? Why do we even need the word gnostic if an agnostic is simply in the middle?

Well, as has been pointed out it's probably not an ideal term. AFAIK the actual usage of "agnosticism" may not even have that much to do with gnostics.

That being said there has to be a "middle ground" of belief/non-belief, because that is where many people's reasoning leads them.

 

[Fraleyight]

Well, as has been pointed out it's probably not an ideal term. AFAIK the actual usage of "agnosticism" may not even have that much to do with gnostics.

That being said there has to be a "middle ground" of belief/non-belief, because that is where many people's reasoning leads them.

O I see. Gnostic is a made up term used to confuse the whole situation.... Right... I think you are kind of looking down on the label Atheist. It is just a word used to describe people who have not been convinced of GOD's existence.

 

[Fraleyight]

Atheist, Gnostic, Theist, Agnostic

Read this and get back to us.

 

[Desert Snake]

O I see. Gnostic is a made up term used to confuse the whole situation.... Right... I think you are kind of looking down on the label Atheist. It is just a word used to describe people who have not been convinced of GOD's existence.

Now you're not even making sense.

 

[Fraleyight]

Now you're not even making sense.

LOL what part of that doesn't make sense?

 

[Desert Snake]

LOL what part of that doesn't make sense?

You're statement. It didn't make sense. Anyway, sure if you want to use these terms in the strictest sense of their meaning, that's fine with me.

 

[Fraleyight]

You're statement. It didn't make sense. Anyway, sure if you want to use these terms in the strictest sense of their meaning, that's fine with me.

I prefer that opposed to making up meanings because you do not like the prejudice assumptions that goes with the other.