The Word

[sojourner]

1John 2:27,

But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you...
​

1John 3:2,

Beloved, now are we the sons of God...​

We are anointed and we are sons of God. I guess that makes us all God???

1) We’re not discussing the Johanine epistles. We’re discussing the Johanine gospel. Completely different documents. Can’t mush them together and maintain coherency. Let’s stick with the topic, shall we?

2) To put it rather oversimplistically: Yes! It does!

 

[rrobs]

Of course. Each Gospel/letter comes at the human condition from a different perspective. None are “alike.”

How do you see Paul's gospel differing form that of Mathew, Mark, Luke, or John?

 

[sojourner]

How do you see Paul's gospel differing form that of Mathew, Mark, Luke, or John?

Paul is very early, without benefit of connected stories of Jesus, without benefit of a developed Christology. Paul’s largely figuring it out as he goes.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

One must abandon the normal, everyday, meaning of words and grammar in order to arrive at the trinity. If we all used the same logic in everyday life, nobody would be able to communicate anything to anybody.

That is sound advice and this has also been offered;

"... The Word of God is the king of words and its pervasive influence is incalculable. It hath ever dominated and will continue to dominate the realm of being. The Great Being saith: The Word is the master key for the whole world, inasmuch as through its potency the doors of the hearts of men, which in reality are the doors of heaven, are unlocked. No sooner had but a glimmer of its effulgent splendour shone forth upon the mirror of love than the blessed word 'I am the Best-Beloved' was reflected therein. It is an ocean inexhaustible in riches, comprehending all things. Every thing which can be perceived is but an emanation therefrom..... " Bahá’u’lláh, Tablets of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 173

It is said creation was the joining of the letters B & E. If that is the power of two letters, imagine the power of words.

Regards Tony

 

[rrobs]

Paul is very early, without benefit of connected stories of Jesus, without benefit of a developed Christology. Paul’s largely figuring it out as he goes.

Eph 3:1-5,

1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,

2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me [not to anybody else, including Jesus] to you-ward:

3 How that by revelation [not by Paul's own study of ancient texts or something] he made known unto me [not to anybody else, including Jesus] the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand [it is possible for you to know] my knowledge [Paul's knowledge, not Jesus'] in the mystery of Christ.

5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men [before Pentecost, including the gospels], as it is now revealed [when God revealed it to Paul, not to anybody else, including Jesus] unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
​

What other ages? What did Paul mean by "now revealed?"

Clearly Paul was told something by God that nobody knew before God revealed it to him. Nobody in the gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, or John knew about this mystery (it's better translated as "secret").

As far as Paul having no contact with Jesus and therefore did not really understand things, that's patently wrong. Do you not believe that God inspired Paul to write what he wrote? Would God have needed a developed Christology before revealing the secret to Paul? I don't think so.

I know I keep asking you questions which you are kind enough to answer, so I hope you won't mind another one. What changed on the Day of Pentecost?

Be honest with yourself. Do you understand the mystery, the secret, God kept to Himself until He revealed it to Paul? It's critical to understand that secret if you are to truly understand what Jesus did for you.

Read the second chapter of 1 Corinthians. In the beginning part of that chapter Paul said he couldn't speak to the Corinthians about anything but Jesus and him crucified. In verse 6 and 7 we see Paul teaching something more than that to the mature ("perfect") believers. I'm afraid that if you don't understand the secret God gave to Paul, then you are among those whom Paul calls carnal and babes in 1 Corinthians 3:1. I hate to say that, but it's not really me saying it. God didn't inspire me to write 1 Corinthians! I'm just pointing out the obvious. Just read what's written.

There is a good book titled "The Purpose of the Ages" by John Lynn. From what little discussion you and I have engaged in, I can tell that you would be incredibly blessed by reading that book.

 

[sojourner]

Eph 3:1-5,

1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,

2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me [not to anybody else, including Jesus] to you-ward:

3 How that by revelation [not by Paul's own study of ancient texts or something] he made known unto me [not to anybody else, including Jesus] the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand [it is possible for you to know] my knowledge [Paul's knowledge, not Jesus'] in the mystery of Christ.

5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men [before Pentecost, including the gospels], as it is now revealed [when God revealed it to Paul, not to anybody else, including Jesus] unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
What other ages? What did Paul mean by "now revealed?"

You’re off base here.

Clearly Paul was told something by God that nobody knew before God revealed it to him. Nobody in the gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, or John knew about this mystery (it's better translated as "secret").

Paul preceded the gospel writers, and it’s likely Paul did not know them, so it’s quite likely they didn’t know what was in his head.

As far as Paul having no contact with Jesus and therefore did not really understand things, that's patently wrong

Jesus died before Paul’s conversion. Paul never met a Jesus.

Would God have needed a developed Christology before revealing the secret to Paul? I don't think so

Obviously not, which is why Paul didn’t have such a tool.

Be honest with yourself. Do you understand the mystery, the secret, God kept to Himself until He revealed it to Paul? It's critical to understand that secret if you are to truly understand what Jesus did for you.

Read the second chapter of 1 Corinthians. In the beginning part of that chapter Paul said he couldn't speak to the Corinthians about anything but Jesus and him crucified. In verse 6 and 7 we see Paul teaching something more than that to the mature ("perfect") believers. I'm afraid that if you don't understand the secret God gave to Paul, then you are among those whom Paul calls carnal and babes in 1 Corinthians 3:1. I hate to say that, but it's not really me saying it. God didn't inspire me to write 1 Corinthians! I'm just pointing out the obvious. Just read what's written.

I’m not asking for spiritual direction; my spiritual formation is well established and already in well-qualified hands.
BTW: I’m preaching on this very topic tomorrow; I have the topic well in hand.

 

[rrobs]

You’re off base here.

Really? How so? Specifics please.

Paul preceded the gospel writers, and it’s likely Paul did not know them, so it’s quite likely they didn’t know what was in his head.

Jesus died before Paul’s conversion. Paul never met a Jesus.

Obviously not, which is why Paul didn’t have such a tool.

So you don't believe what Paul said in Timothy?

2 Tim 3:16,

All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:​

I’m not asking for spiritual direction; my spiritual formation is well established and already in well-qualified hands.

I know you are not asking. You don't have the humility to do that.

BTW: I’m preaching on this very topic tomorrow; I have the topic well in hand.

Oh boy, they'll be yet more uninformed brothers and sisters after you're done. Yikes!

 

[sojourner]

Really? How so? Specifics please

If you need that much instruction, sign up for a class in biblical studies. Judging by your post here, you need way more than a simple post can cover.

So you don't believe what Paul said in Timothy?

2 Tim 3:16,

All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

First of all, It’s the consensus of scholars that Paul didn’t write 2 Timothy.
Second, the author was referring to the Hebrew texts — not any gospels or epistles.

I know you are not asking. You don't have the humility to do that.

No, I have the good boundaries not to ask someone I don’t know on the internet.

Oh boy, they'll be yet more uninformed brothers and sisters after you're done. Yikes!

Since you’re not an authority on theology, exegetics, or homiletics, and not remotely involved with my judicatory, your response here serves no useful purpose other than to make you appear either immature, insincere, or both.

 

[rrobs]

rrobs said: ↑
Oh boy, they'll be yet more uninformed brothers and sisters after you're done. Yikes!​

Since you’re not an authority on theology, exegetics, or homiletics, and not remotely involved with my judicatory, your response here serves no useful purpose other than to make you appear either immature, insincere, or both.

The reason I said what I said is because you are telling seeking people that the scriptures are not really inspired by God, but that each man wrote what he thought in himself. You appear to not believe either 2 Peter 1:21 or 2 Timothy 3:16.

God wants us all to speak the same thing, to be united as one.

1 Cor 1:10,

Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and [that] there be no divisions among you; but [that] ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
​

How do you see that happening if the men who wrote the scriptures were just writing their own opinion about God? That seems to be what you think. I'd like to think I'm wrong, but I don't know that I am.

I'm trying to teach people the truth that, while many put pen to paper, it was God who told them exactly what to write. It's people like yourself, who apparently think, not only are the scriptures far from perfect, and that we need Platonic loving "church fathers" to give us the real deal, that makes my job much harder. So, yes, I pray you stop teaching the scriptures until you know what they say.

I'm not beating around the bush here. Our country is in such a sad shape because, by and large, the church is worshiping a false triune type of god. Look at how things went with Israel when they worshiped Baal. Not much different than what we see today in our own country. We must get back to the one true God the Father of 1 Corinthians 8:6.

 

[sojourner]

The reason I said what I said is because you are telling seeking people that the scriptures are not really inspired by God

Nope. That’s not what I said. The problem is, you seem to have this erroneous belief that “inspired” = “dictation.”

You appear to not believe either 2 Peter 1:21 or 2 Timothy 3:16.

I believe they speak to what they are speaking to. They’re just not speaking to what you think they’re speaking to.

I'm trying to teach people the truth that, while many put pen to paper, it was God who told them exactly what to write

That’s not truth, however.

It's people like yourself, who apparently think, not only are the scriptures far from perfect, and that we need Platonic loving "church fathers" to give us the real deal, that makes my job much harder

It’s people like yourself, however, who idolize the texts and twist them into something they are not, and were never intended to be. I pray that I make your “job” much, much, much more difficult, because you’re misleading people. Please stop playing at “Bible Scholar.” If you haven’t been to law school, you can’t play lawyer. If you haven’t been to medical school, you can’t play doctor. If you haven’t been through post-graduate biblical studies, you can’t play bible teacher.

So, yes, I pray you stop teaching the scriptures until you know what they say

Right back at ya.

I'm not beating around the bush here. Our country is in such a sad shape because, by and large, the church is worshiping a false triune type of god

Our country is in such bad shape because we have a baboon of a president who fosters division, hatred, entitlement, and self-aggrandizement over social responsibility.