• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

What was the forbidden fruit

Clara Tea

Well-Known Member
Some claim it was an apple, some claim a fig but from what I understand the bible doesn't mention what it was, its just called the forbidden fruit

Is this an example of not knowing so the blank is filled in by what we think or what it might be.

I wonder how much of the bible is/has been interpreted that way.

Guessing, I'd say that the forbidden fruit of knowledge is sexual reproduction. They were naked, God made genitals (male and female), but didn't expect Adam nor Eve to use them. Consequences were a burgeoning population of Eden, which God didn't expect. It's like the time I took in unfixed (not spade and not neutered) stray cats....soon I was buried alive in kittens, and kittens' kittens. I was feeding them with 50 pound cat food sacks per day, and couldn't give adequate attention to all of them, so they grew up feral (afraid of people).

At this point, God kicked out Adam and Eve from Eden, and they realized that they were naked and were ashamed. So ashamed, they were reluctant to have sex until God said "go forth and multiply." Modern Catholics likely have the wrong take on that phrase. They believe that it means "have as many kids as possible." not "don't be ashamed to have sex." I think that God is good at math, and math says that an exponentially growing population will soon consume all resources and all will starve (and compete violently for whatever food is left).

Once again, we see that the bible seems to give sound advice, but that advice is not understood.

It reminds me of God's advice (actually, a commandment) not to wage war or kill. He also advised to "turn the other cheek." But, stressed by terrorist attack, we defy God, think that God will not get the terrorists in His own way, and wage wars (and even use torture camps).

The 8 year old little boy and 13 year old little boy who were tortured along with the rest of them at Guantanamo, Cuba, did not know where Osama bin Laden was, and they were not privy to the high lever military strategies employed by the al Qaeda.

Al Qaeda prisons tortured at Guantanamo for almost 8 years, did not know current locations of their fellow soldiers, since they moved years ago, so torturing them was not productive.

God advised not to kill (and I'm sure He didn't want torture), but mankind defied God. God advised not to eat the forbidden fruit of knowledge (likely carnal knowledge), but mankind defied God then, too. The bible doesn't give bad advise, but mankind doesn't follow the advise of God.
 

osgart

Nothing my eye, Something for sure
This is interesting. I don't deny that some of what you have written is often how the story is presented, but it seems to me there is something wrong with it. The basic problem is that it was eating the fruit of the forbidden tree that gave them knowledge of good and evil. Before they ate it, they were innocents who did not know the difference.

If they did not know the difference, how can it be just for them to be blamed for what they did? If they did not know what they were doing was wrong, how could they have sinned?

They didn't know themselves according to good and evil until they ate. I don't think they were innocent, just naive and unknowing. They were unaware of their own nature but went from starting out blameless to becoming guilty before they ate the fruit.
 

We Never Know

No Slack
Guessing, I'd say that the forbidden fruit of knowledge is sexual reproduction. They were naked, God made genitals (male and female), but didn't expect Adam nor Eve to use them. Consequences were a burgeoning population of Eden, which God didn't expect. It's like the time I took in unfixed (not spade and not neutered) stray cats....soon I was buried alive in kittens, and kittens' kittens. I was feeding them with 50 pound cat food sacks per day, and couldn't give adequate attention to all of them, so they grew up feral (afraid of people).

At this point, God kicked out Adam and Eve from Eden, and they realized that they were naked and were ashamed. So ashamed, they were reluctant to have sex until God said "go forth and multiply." Modern Catholics likely have the wrong take on that phrase. They believe that it means "have as many kids as possible." not "don't be ashamed to have sex." I think that God is good at math, and math says that an exponentially growing population will soon consume all resources and all will starve (and compete violently for whatever food is left).

Once again, we see that the bible seems to give sound advice, but that advice is not understood.

It reminds me of God's advice (actually, a commandment) not to wage war or kill. He also advised to "turn the other cheek." But, stressed by terrorist attack, we defy God, think that God will not get the terrorists in His own way, and wage wars (and even use torture camps).

The 8 year old little boy and 13 year old little boy who were tortured along with the rest of them at Guantanamo, Cuba, did not know where Osama bin Laden was, and they were not privy to the high lever military strategies employed by the al Qaeda.

Al Qaeda prisons tortured at Guantanamo for almost 8 years, did not know current locations of their fellow soldiers, since they moved years ago, so torturing them was not productive.

God advised not to kill (and I'm sure He didn't want torture), but mankind defied God. God advised not to eat the forbidden fruit of knowledge (likely carnal knowledge), but mankind defied God then, too. The bible doesn't give bad advise, but mankind doesn't follow the advise of God.

"Guessing, I'd say that the forbidden fruit of knowledge is sexual reproduction. They were naked, God made genitals (male and female), but didn't expect Adam nor Eve to use them."

What about...

Genesis 1:28

"And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth."
 
Last edited:

Clara Tea

Well-Known Member
It appears that there is no definitive answer. Here's some speculation from Wiki:

Identifications and depictions

The word fruit appears in Hebrew as פֶּ֫רִי (pərî ). As to which fruit may have been the forbidden fruit of the Garden of Eden, possibilities include apple, grape, pomegranate, fig, carob, etrog or citron, pear, quince, and mushrooms. The pseudepigraphic Book of Enoch describes the tree of knowledge: "It was like a species of the Tamarind tree, bearing fruit which resembled grapes extremely fine; and its fragrance extended to a considerable distance. I exclaimed, How beautiful is this tree, and how delightful is its appearance!" (1 Enoch 31:4).

In Islamic tradition, the fruit is commonly either identified with wheat or with grapevine.

Apple
In Western Europe, the fruit was often depicted as an apple. This was possibly because of a misunderstanding of – or a pun on – two unrelated words mălum, a native Latin noun which means evil (from the adjective malus), and mālum, another Latin noun, borrowed from Greek μῆλον, which means apple. In the Vulgate, Genesis 2:17 describes the tree as de ligno autem scientiae boni et mali : "but of the tree [literally wood ] of knowledge of good and evil" (mali here is the genitive of malum). The larynx, specifically the laryngeal prominence that joins the thyroid cartilage, in the human throat is noticeably more prominent in males and was consequently called an Adam's apple, from a notion that it was caused by the forbidden fruit getting stuck in Adam's throat as he swallowed it.

Grape
Rabbi Meir says that the fruit was a grape, made into wine. The Zohar explains similarly that Noah attempted (but failed) to rectify the sin of Adam by using grape wine for holy purposes. The midrash of Berei**** Rabah states that the fruit was grape, or squeezed grapes (perhaps alluding to wine). Chapter 4 of 3 Baruch, also known as the Greek Apocalypse of Baruch, designates the fruit as the grape. 3 Baruch is a first to third century text that is either Christian or Jewish with Christian interpolations.

Fig
The Bible states in the book of Genesis that Adam and Eve had made their own fig leaf clothing: "And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig-leaves together, and made themselves girdles". Rabbi Nehemiah Hayyun supports the idea that the fruit was a fig, as it was from fig leaves that God made garments for Adam and Eve upon expelling them from the Garden. "By that with which they were made low were they rectified." Since the fig is a long-standing symbol of female sexuality, it enjoyed a run as a favorite understudy to the apple as the forbidden fruit during the Italian Renaissance, Michelangelo Buonarroti depicting it as such in his masterpiece fresco on the Sistine Chapel ceiling.

Pomegranate
Proponents of the theory that the Garden of Eden was located somewhere in what is now known as the Middle East suggest that the fruit was actually a pomegranate, a plant indigenous from Iran to the Himalayas and cultivated since ancient times. The association of the pomegranate with knowledge of the underworld as provided in the Ancient Greek legend of Persephone may also have given rise to an association with knowledge of the otherworld, tying-in with knowledge that is forbidden to mortals. Also, it is believed Hades offered Persephone a pomegranate to force her to stay with him in the underworld. Hades is the Greek god of death and the Bible states that whoever eats the forbidden fruit shall die.

Wheat
Rabbi Yehuda proposes that the fruit was wheat, because "a baby does not know to call its mother and father until it tastes the taste of grain."bIn Hebrew, wheat is "khitah", which has been considered to be a pun on "khet", meaning "sin" Although commonly confused with a seed, in the study of botany a wheat berry is technically a simple fruit known as a caryopsis, which has the same structure as an apple. Just as an apple is a fleshy fruit that contains seeds, a grain is a dry fruit that absorbs water and contains a seed. The confusion comes from the fact that the fruit of a grass happens to have a form similar to some seeds.

Mushroom
A fresco in the 13th-century Plaincourault Abbey in France depicts Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden, flanking a Tree of Knowledge that has the appearance of a gigantic Amanita muscaria, a psychoactive mushroom. Terence McKenna proposed that the forbidden fruit was a reference to psychotropic plants and fungi, specifically psilocybin mushrooms, which he theorized played a central role in the evolution of the human brain. Earlier, in a well-documented but heavily criticized study, John M. Allegro proposed the mushroom as the forbidden fruit.

Banana
Several proponents of the theory exist dating from the thirteenth century. In Nathan HaMe’ati's 13th century translation of Maimonides's work The Medical Aphorisms of Moses, the banana is called the "apple of eden". In the sixteenth century, Menahem Lonzano considered it common knowledge in Syria and Egypt that the banana was the apple of Eden.

Wheat, you say, because babies can't call their parents until they eat wheat? But Adam and Eve were celibate in Eden.
 

Clara Tea

Well-Known Member
"Guessing, I'd say that the forbidden fruit of knowledge is sexual reproduction. They were naked, God made genitals (male and female), but didn't expect Adam nor Eve to use them."

What about...

Genesis 1:28

"And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth."

The events were sequential. First God warned them not to taste the forbidden fruit of knowledge. Then God kicked them out of Eden for tasting it, and suddenly they realized that they were naked and were ashamed. Then God told them to "be fruitful and multiply."

But God didn't tell them to multiply while they were in Eden.

I'm guessing that God didn't mind two human pets in Eden, but objected to a crowd (their kids, grandchildren, et al). But, outside of Eden, they were on their own.

By the way, God also told humans to take care of nature (another thing that modern man ignores).
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
They didn't know themselves according to good and evil until they ate. I don't think they were innocent, just naive and unknowing. They were unaware of their own nature but went from starting out blameless to becoming guilty before they ate the fruit.
So you think they already understood the difference between right and wrong before they ate the fruits of the "tree of knowledge of good and evil"?
 

We Never Know

No Slack
The events were sequential. First God warned them not to taste the forbidden fruit of knowledge. Then God kicked them out of Eden for tasting it, and suddenly they realized that they were naked and were ashamed. Then God told them to "be fruitful and multiply."

But God didn't tell them to multiply while they were in Eden.

I'm guessing that God didn't mind two human pets in Eden, but objected to a crowd (their kids, grandchildren, et al). But, outside of Eden, they were on their own.

By the way, God also told humans to take care of nature (another thing that modern man ignores).

Yet in Genesis 1:27 they were created...

"So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them."

Then in
Genesis 1:28
"And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth."

They didn't eat the forbidden fruit until Genesis 3
 

Clara Tea

Well-Known Member
It wasn't the tree of knowledge. It was the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

The point of the allegory is it signifies Man becoming morally aware and thereby losing his innocence, just as a child becomes aware of good and bad and is then treated accordingly, instead of being indulged as too young to know the difference. It's a story of loss of innocence.

None of which sheds any light on what the fruit of this mythical tree was supposed to resemble.;) As it is allegorical, there seems little point in debating whether it was an apple, a tangerine or a banana.
God kicked them out of Eden for learning morality. Then they had to fend for themselves in a cruel world.

But God made them without such knowledge. God tempted them with gaining that morality.

Isn't God partially to blame?

It's like driving a car on a freeway, causing an accident, and saying that it was the other guy's fault because he was there.

God cursed all of mankind because of the sins of Adam and Eve? But, how can He be a good God?
 

Colt

Well-Known Member
In the Bible, I find Adam and Eve were to have sex according to Genesis 1:28; Genesis 2:24.
Marital sex is Not a sin. Adam and Eve disobeyed and broke God's Law about taking fruit from His tree.

Adam and Eve arrived on a previously fallen, previously populated evolved earth.


In the Urantia Book revelation of 1955 Eve had sex with Cains real father from Nod. It was a plan hatched by "the Crafty Beast" to outflank the pair. Eve had become impatient with their original plans of rehabilitation for our previously fallen world. The idea was to inject her superior genes into the races to speed up the development of more intelligent people to work with. But it was strictly forbidden! Adam then rushed out and did the same thing to share Eves fate.

After Cain killed Abel due to his constant taunting over Cain being a reminder of the sin, Cain left in search of his fathers people where he found a wife and a city.
 

Colt

Well-Known Member
By having sex with someone other than her partner, Eve injected her genes into the gene pool which subsequently caused "pains of childbirth" for her descendants.
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
God kicked them out of Eden for learning morality. Then they had to fend for themselves in a cruel world.

But God made them without such knowledge. God tempted them with gaining that morality.

Isn't God partially to blame?

It's like driving a car on a freeway, causing an accident, and saying that it was the other guy's fault because he was there.

God cursed all of mankind because of the sins of Adam and Eve? But, how can He be a good God?
Yes, there are various problems with the story, taken literally. I think one needs to stand back and see it as an allegory of the double-edged nature of Man's acquisition of moral awareness, and his tendency to fail to choose the moral path. That tendency is how the traditional churches have interpreted Original Sin: an inherent moral weakness, in spite of knowing better.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
I thought the deity in that myth was omniscient? If that were so, wouldn't he have known what was going to happen before it happened?

I think that is a very micro view of an event. Apparently, however, He had a remedy for such a situation.

In chapter 3, He presented the coming of the Messiah that would remedy the problem.
 

Vee

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Some claim it was an apple, some claim a fig but from what I understand the bible doesn't mention what it was, its just called the forbidden fruit

Is this an example of not knowing so the blank is filled in by what we think or what it might be.

I wonder how much of the bible is/has been interpreted that way.

The bible doesn't say what kind of fruit it was.
I have a theory about why the apple was "chosen". It was probably a painter. He was working on a painting inspired in the account of Adam and Eve and since he was really good at painting apples, that's the fruit he put on the canvas. I have no idea if that's what happened, but it could be :)
 

Sheldon

Veteran Member
Well it was none of those. It was the fruit of knowledge of good and evil. As far as I know it was only in the garden of Eden and I don't expect that it can be found anywhere on earth currently.
or evidenced in any objective way, however the human genome project has suggested human genetic diversity could not have evolved from just two humans in anything like the roughly 200k years that the evidence suggests humans evolved. In fact it would require a vastly higher number of breeding humans than that, even if we disregard the YEC's ludicrous claim of just a few thousand years.

Unevidenced hypothetical fruit notwithstanding of course.
 

1213

Well-Known Member
Some claim it was an apple, some claim a fig but from what I understand the bible doesn't mention what it was, its just called the forbidden fruit....

I think it could have been any fruit tree that was just separated and called specific. When the fruit is forbidden, it becomes tree of knowledge, because when one disobeys, he will learn about good and right. So, it really doesn't matter what exactly it was, because same would have been the result with any tree that would have been selected for the purpose.
 

Brickjectivity

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
I think Genesis is written in such a way that there is no absolute way to interpret all of it. For example the price of wisdom is growing older and getting closer to death. Its analogous to the fruit of the knowledge which causes death.

They took God's generosity for "granate."
I cannot spell it correctly and rely on the spellchecker.
 

Sheldon

Veteran Member
I think that is a very micro view of an event. Apparently, however, He had a remedy for such a situation.

In chapter 3, He presented the coming of the Messiah that would remedy the problem.

No he didn't - "Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur".
 

Azrael Antilla

Active Member
Some claim it was an apple, some claim a fig but from what I understand the bible doesn't mention what it was, its just called the forbidden fruit

Is this an example of not knowing so the blank is filled in by what we think or what it might be.

I wonder how much of the bible is/has been interpreted that way.
For some reason, the word pomegranate, leaped out of deep recall. Dunno why.
 
Top