If God existed would there be proof?

[Brian2]

Does this apply to all gods or only to creator gods?

There is only one God, the creator God, and imo anything that did not create us is not our God.

 

[Brian2]

I am dubious, as that seems like circular reasoning.

Could you explain that further.

 

[blü 2]

Those are good questions but those were not the questions I was asking in the OP. I was assuming that there 'could be' some kind of universal proof of God if God wanted it that way.

The basic question I had was: Could a God exist and not provide proof of His existence?

Does Dark Matter exist while we have no satisfactory evidence, no satisfactory theory, of the sense in which it exists? It's possible.

But Dark Matter doesn't claim to have any direct claim on human interactions, or to declare moral rules and supervise them, and so on.

Nor are there tens of thousands of groups, each adamant that it alone knows the truth about Dark Matter, and some of whom also wish eternal damnation on the others for disagreeing.

 

[CG Didymus]

God does not provide proof. From reading the Bible the answer is obvious. God does not provide proof because God wants our faith, and with proof, faith would no longer be necessary.

I've talked to you about this before. The Bible has God speaking from heavens. Sending prophets that gave messages that came true. Sent plaques to Egypt. Guided his people through the wilderness. Wrote on some stone tablets. Parted the seas. Turned a walking stick into a snake. Sent manna from heaven. And another thing, what do the Hebrew and Greek words that get translated as "faith" mean?

God was necessary to have this world full of pain and death,

Why would your concept of a loving God be necessary? What if there is a dualistic kind of a God?

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Because of Hermes, the God messenger, the existence of Gods is real. The proof is the notion of Gods, because of Hermes.

 

[CG Didymus]

I think that there is proof, but not everyone recognizes the proof.

Is it necessary to believe in the claims of Baha'u'llah to have the proof and evidence needed to believe in God? If not, what evidence and proof do you believe in that comes from the other religions?

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

It wouldn't work with the present setup, but God could have set it up differently since God is omnipotent and omniscient.

Really, one would presume that with omnipotence and omniscience, "present setup" would not present any particular barrier for God to get what he wants done.

 

[CG Didymus]

For purposed of the OP it does not matter which deity.

But that is important. It has to be the God that Baha'is believe in. 'Cause lots of Christians believe in the Trinitarian God and a Satan. And lots of the pain and suffering are blamed him, Satan. Then there is Shiva, Vishnu and Brahma that some Hindus believe in. They probably have explanations why the is pain and suffering based on their beliefs. And they all probably have things they believe are evidence for the God or Gods they believe in. But, since Baha'is don't believe those Gods are real, we need evidence and proof of your, the Baha'i, concept of God.

 

[Trailblazer]

Was this supposed to be coherent?

Yes.

If this were true, they would have proof if God.

So you've changed your mind?

No, because I never said that nobody has proof of God. God has revealed evidence which is sufficient proof for some believers.

 

[Trailblazer]

Does Dark Matter exist while we have no satisfactory evidence, no satisfactory theory, of the sense in which it exists? It's possible.

But Dark Matter doesn't claim to have any direct claim on human interactions, or to declare moral rules and supervise them, and so on.

Nor are there tens of thousands of groups, each adamant that it alone knows the truth about Dark Matter, and some of whom also wish eternal damnation on the others for disagreeing.

It all boils down to what you consider "satisfactory evidence."
I believe I have satisfactory evidence, but nonbelievers disagree.

 

[Trailblazer]

I've talked to you about this before. The Bible has God speaking from heavens. Sending prophets that gave messages that came true. Sent plaques to Egypt. Guided his people through the wilderness. Wrote on some stone tablets. Parted the seas. Turned a walking stick into a snake. Sent manna from heaven. And another thing, what do the Hebrew and Greek words that get translated as "faith" mean?

"The Bible has God....."
The Bible can say any thing it wants to say but that does not mean any of that ever happened.
But of course you already know what I believe about that.

Why would your concept of a loving God be necessary? What if there is a dualistic kind of a God?

That might be a Christian and a Baha'i concept but it is not my concept. It is necessary for them to believe that God is loving because they would probably not want to believe in God otherwise, but I am a realist. I see what I see and I cannot reconcile that to a loving God. Of course I could be wrong but so could the Christians and the Baha'is.

 

[Trailblazer]

Is it necessary to believe in the claims of Baha'u'llah to have the proof and evidence needed to believe in God? If not, what evidence and proof do you believe in that comes from the other religions?

No, it is not necessary. The other religions have their own scriptures which are proof and evidence for them. After all, humans believed in God long before Baha'u'llah appeared.

 

[Trailblazer]

Really, one would presume that with omnipotence and omniscience, "present setup" would not present any particular barrier for God to get what he wants done.

I did not say that it presented a barrier.

 

[Trailblazer]

But that is important. It has to be the God that Baha'is believe in. 'Cause lots of Christians believe in the Trinitarian God and a Satan. And lots of the pain and suffering are blamed him, Satan. Then there is Shiva, Vishnu and Brahma that some Hindus believe in. They probably have explanations why the is pain and suffering based on their beliefs. And they all probably have things they believe are evidence for the God or Gods they believe in. But, since Baha'is don't believe those Gods are real, we need evidence and proof of your, the Baha'i, concept of God.

No, it does not have to be evidence and proof of the God that Baha'is believe in because our God is the same God that other religions believe in, since there is only one true God. Religious people have different conceptions of God but people's beliefs about God do not make God what God actually is.

 

[Kfox]

And again, ironically, Baha'is don't seem to believe those Bible stories really happened. If some guy claiming to be a prophet came into my town and said "repent, or God's going to send fire from the sky." And then it happened. I'd believe him next time and say, "Okay, your God is real. Can you get him to stop killing evil, sinning people? Pretty soon, there will be no one left."

Umm..... If God were real and he agreed to quit killing evil sinning people, there would at least be a bunch of evil sinning people left; don't cha think?

 

[Kfox]

I thing there would be evidence but not absolute proof, for the Bible says that God wants our faith, which means there will never be absolute proof.

Hebrews 11:6 And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who approaches Him must believe that He exists and that He rewards those who earnestly seek Him.

We must first believe that it is possible for God to exist, and that requires faith since no man has ever seen God. God wants us to have faith and that explains why God does not provide absolute proof. I believe that God will reward those who earnestly seek Him with the evidence we need to believe, but God will not force us to accept the evidence. We all have free will to choose.

If God were real and were good, I doubt he would ask anybody to believe anything on faith. In my experience, the only people who ask you to believe them on faith are liars; honest people have no problem providing evidence or even proof.

 

[Trailblazer]

If God were real and were good, I doubt he would ask anybody to believe anything on faith. In my experience, the only people who ask you to believe them on faith are liars; honest people have no problem providing evidence or even proof.

If God is real, God is asking people to believe on faith and evidence, since that is what is required to believe....

Whether you consider God good is another matter altogether. We all have personal opinions and beliefs.

I do not believe in anyone on faith, I have faith in them because of the evidence that they provided, their track record. That is the same reason I believe in Baha'u'llah's claim to be speaking for God.

 

[blü 2]

It all boils down to what you consider "satisfactory evidence."
I believe I have satisfactory evidence, but nonbelievers disagree.

The riddle remains: satisfactory evidence of what, exactly?

 

[MonkeyFire]

IMO the proof of God is that love, and faith need to go on for belief to exist. They must get free, and they must go into bliss ever after. Belief is a natural part of the universe that makes life livable.

 

[Kfox]

If God is real, God is asking people to believe on faith and evidence, since that is what is required to believe....

What good is faith when you have evidence?