Bergoglio's crucifix

[Estro Felino]

Someone sent me this picture of Cardinal Jorge Mario Bergoglio wearing this interesting crucifix.
I had never seen such crucifix in my entire life.

I zoomed the image, and then searched for it ...and apparently it deals with this crucifix:

Do you guys know what it stands for?
I guess I have never seen a crucifix portraying a live Jesus.
I guess it portrays Jesus as shepherd.

 

[paradox]

Do you guys know what it stands for?

Jesus carrying a sheep is referring to Jesus' parable of lost sheep from Gospel Luke 15:1-7

Also I guess since pope is vicar of Christ his specific crucifix is to be seen in light of John 21:15-19
or "I'm here in place of Jesus for my sheep" and "if you're lost I will carry you"

I guess I have never seen a crucifix portraying a live Jesus.

Me neither, it's definitely unusual.

 

[Estro Felino]

Jesus carrying a sheep is referring to Jesus' parable of lost sheep from Gospel Luke 15:1-7


Me neither, it's definitely unusual.

It looks lugubrious to me.
Especially because Pope's crucifixes have always been golden.

 

[paradox]

It looks lugubrious to me.

You mean because of how Jesus is depicted? with a sad face?
Also I edited my post.

Especially because Pope's crucifixes have always been golden.

Francis proclaimed he is pope of the poor, thus carrying silver crucifix instead of gold one goes in his favor for being poor and also not being hypocrite.

 

[Estro Felino]

You mean because of how Jesus is depicted? with a sad face?.

No,...because of the bird with the wings downward. Very lugubrious and macabre. Like a dead bird falling.
The Holy Ghost is depicted as a dove with its wings upward.

 

[pearl]

Pope Francis wears the good shepherd cross that was made for him back in his hometown, Flores, when he was a bishop. The cross was his own concept and was personally designed by his teacher, Antonio Veldele. The design was inspired by Jesus himself, "I am the good shepherd; the good shepherd lays down His life for the sheep.”

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

No,...because of the bird with the wings downward. Very lugubrious and macabre. Like a dead bird falling.

Sometimes we see what we're predisposed to see.

To me, a pretty staunch non-Christian, it demonstrates a very commendable focus and sensitivity.

 

[Estro Felino]

Pope Francis wears the good shepherd cross that was made for him back in his hometown, Flores, when he was a bishop. The cross was his own concept and was personally designed by his teacher, Antonio Veldele. The design was inspired by Jesus himself, "I am the good shepherd; the good shepherd lays down His life for the sheep.”

I honestly hope the bird does not symbolize some esoteric stuff.
I guess that if Bergoglio has sympathies for certain Freemasonic or Rosicrucian lodges, he should say it.

 

[pearl]

I honestly hope the bird does not symbolize some esoteric stuff.
I guess that if Bergoglio has sympathies for certain Freemasonic or Rosicrucian lodges, he should say it.

I think, first of all, the cross Francis wears is a 'Cross of Resurrection' as opposed to a crucifix depicting Jesus' body on the cross. What the earthly Jesus did, shepherd his people, he continues to do. There was much discussion post Vatican II on the question of 'too much Good Friday, and not enough Easter Sunday reflected in the Liturgy. Many parishes replaced the Crucifix either, on the altar or hanging above, with the 'empty' cross, sign of resurrection. Benedict XVI demanded all churches go back to the Crucifix.

 

[Estro Felino]

I think, first of all, the cross Francis wears is a 'Cross of Resurrection' as opposed to a crucifix depicting Jesus' body on the cross. What the earthly Jesus did, shepherd his people, he continues to do. There was much discussion post Vatican II on the question of 'too much Good Friday, and not enough Easter Sunday reflected in the Liturgy. Many parishes replaced the Crucifix either, on the altar or hanging above, with the 'empty' cross, sign of resurrection. Benedict XVI demanded all churches go back to the Crucifix.

Actually the kind of answers I would like to get from you are:
- He is neither Rosicrucian nor Freemason
- He has no sympathies for people who are into that stuff.

After all... there are so many Rosicrucians who consider themselves Christians.
So...who assures me he is not one?

 

[pearl]

Actually the kind of answers I would like to get from you are:
- He is neither Rosicrucian nor Freemason
- He has no sympathies for people who are into that stuff.

After all... there are so many Rosicrucians who consider themselves Christians.
So...who assures me he is not one?

I had to look up Rosicrucians, and from the little I can gather it boils down to a social change, for the Church it would be Vatican II, accused by many as being purely 'innovative'.
social change - Mechanisms of social change | Britannica

Once again it is the 'naysayers' who persist.

 

[pearl]

The dispute, which has led to a controversial intervention by the Holy See, has exposed a divergent approach to dealing with practices that the Church has always taught to be gravely immoral. It has also revealed allegations of ambitions of the Knights’ German association to extend its influence within the ancient chivalric order, a papal wish to rid the order of Freemasonry, and a mysterious 120 million Swiss Franc ($118 million) donation to the Knights.

The Pope also made it clear to Cardinal Burke that he wanted Freemasonry “cleaned out” from the order, and he demanded appropriate action.
Disorder in the Order of Malta| National Catholic Register (ncregister.com)
Papal ban of Freemasonry - Wikipedia

 

[Estro Felino]

The dispute, which has led to a controversial intervention by the Holy See, has exposed a divergent approach to dealing with practices that the Church has always taught to be gravely immoral. It has also revealed allegations of ambitions of the Knights’ German association to extend its influence within the ancient chivalric order, a papal wish to rid the order of Freemasonry, and a mysterious 120 million Swiss Franc ($118 million) donation to the Knights.

The Pope also made it clear to Cardinal Burke that he wanted Freemasonry “cleaned out” from the order, and he demanded appropriate action.
Disorder in the Order of Malta| National Catholic Register (ncregister.com)
Papal ban of Freemasonry - Wikipedia

The Vatican is light years away from the state I live in. It is a world that can be dangerously hostile to the secular republic that is located on the other side of the Tiber River.
And yes, it is Freemasonic.
I am 100% sure that Pope Luciani was murdered. And those Cardinals elected Wojtila just to try to expiate. But Wojtila was exactly like Luciani...in fact he chose the same papal name.
They tried to get rid of him too.

 

[pearl]

And those Cardinals elected Wojtila just to try to expiate. But Wojtila was exactly like Luciani...in fact he chose the same papal name.

I do not think these two popes were exactly the same at all. And the name chosen was after two popes, John I and Paul VI.

 

[Estro Felino]

I do not think these two popes were exactly the same at all. And the name chosen was after two popes, John I and Paul VI.

You surely know John Paul II very well.
But what makes you say Luciani was not exactly the same at all? Could you elaborate?

 

[pearl]

But what makes you say Luciani was not exactly the same at all? Could you elaborate?

I think he was more open to Vat II, taking the name of John, open to contraception, aware of corruption concerning the Vatican Bank etc. Probably a threat to the Curia.

 

[Estro Felino]

I think he was more open to Vat II, taking the name of John, open to contraception, aware of corruption concerning the Vatican Bank etc. Probably a threat to the Curia.

All these details (which I knew too) confirm the fact that he was murdered.
Don't you think so?
They are all points that strengthen that thesis.

 

[pearl]

All these details (which I knew too) confirm the fact that he was murdered.
Don't you think so?
They are all points that strengthen that thesis.

I think it is a given there will be no confirmation. The question is even taken up Hollywood in the form of movies and books, (Godfather III, The Pope Must Die) even questioned some by Catholic theologians.
I don't think the question will ever be resolved. And, maybe after all, it was a heart attack.

 

[Estro Felino]

I think it is a given there will be no confirmation. The question is even taken up Hollywood in the form of movies and books, (Godfather III, The Pope Must Die) even questioned some by Catholic theologians.
I don't think the question will ever be resolved. And, maybe after all, it was a heart attack.

But now, in the 21st century, Catholics have the right to know whether there are Freemasons among Cardinals.
We have the right to know.
Don't you agree that the rumors about the Vatican being the lair of Freemasons joining unchristian esoteric lodges, might be true?

Because that crucifix is awfully suspicious.

 

[pearl]

Don't you agree that the rumors about the Vatican being the lair of Freemasons joining unchristian esoteric lodges, might be true?

From what I have gathered any evidence of this is from anti-VatII Catholics.