Does the Apostle Paul claim that Jesus Christ, the holy anointed man, is Almighty God?

[Soapy]

It is claimed that the Apostles Paul said:

• For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”), yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.“ (1 Cor 8:5-6)

The verses first says that there is only one God [who is] the Father, FROM WHOM ALL THINGS CAME.

The verse continues saying that ‘There is only one Lord [who is] Jesus Christ.’

But then it says something strange and counter-intuitive. It says that all things came ‘THROUGH’ Jesus Christ.

But if all things came FROM THE FATHER, how did all things come THROUGH JESUS CHRIST?
((Recall also that trinity says that it was Jesus Christ who created all things….?!))

All [good] things are from the Father:

• “Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows.“ (James 1:17)
• “This is what the LORD says— your Redeemer, who formed you in the womb: I am the LORD, the Maker of all things, who stretches out the heavens, who spreads out the earth by myself,” (Isaiah 44:24)

We know that the ‘LORD’ is ‘YHWH’, God; the Father. And it states in that verse in Isaiah that it is ‘YHWH’ that created all things.

Why then does of ‘appear’ that Paul is claiming all things CAME TO BE THROUGH Jesus Christ?

Could this actually be an example of MISTRANSLATION OR ADDITIONAL TEXT by the trinitarian translators attempting to claim that it ‘YHWH’ lied that he and he alone, created all things?
((Recall also that trinity says that it was Jesus Christ who created all things….?!))

Think what it would mean for the preaching of Almighty God, and his SERVANT Christ, to be brought into disrepute for the sake of deviant ideology?

 

[Wildswanderer]

It is claimed that the Apostles Paul said:

• For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”), yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.“ (1 Cor 8:5-6)

The verses first says that there is only one God [who is] the Father, FROM WHOM ALL THINGS CAME.

The verse continues saying that ‘There is only one Lord [who is] Jesus Christ.’

But then it says something strange and counter-intuitive. It says that all things came ‘THROUGH’ Jesus Christ.

But if all things came FROM THE FATHER, how did all things come THROUGH JESUS CHRIST?
((Recall also that trinity says that it was Jesus Christ who created all things….?!))

All [good] things are from the Father:

• “Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows.“ (James 1:17)
• “This is what the LORD says— your Redeemer, who formed you in the womb: I am the LORD, the Maker of all things, who stretches out the heavens, who spreads out the earth by myself,” (Isaiah 44:24)

We know that the ‘LORD’ is ‘YHWH’, God; the Father. And it states in that verse in Isaiah that it is ‘YHWH’ that created all things.

Why then does of ‘appear’ that Paul is claiming all things CAME TO BE THROUGH Jesus Christ?

Could this actually be an example of MISTRANSLATION OR ADDITIONAL TEXT by the trinitarian translators attempting to claim that it ‘YHWH’ lied that he and he alone, created all things?
((Recall also that trinity says that it was Jesus Christ who created all things….?!))

Think what it would mean for the preaching of Almighty God, and his SERVANT Christ, to be brought into disrepute for the sake of deviant ideology?

It's not hard to understand at all. You are just trying to make it hard.
Jesus and the Father are One.

 

[exchemist]

It is claimed that the Apostles Paul said:

• For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”), yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.“ (1 Cor 8:5-6)

The verses first says that there is only one God [who is] the Father, FROM WHOM ALL THINGS CAME.

The verse continues saying that ‘There is only one Lord [who is] Jesus Christ.’

But then it says something strange and counter-intuitive. It says that all things came ‘THROUGH’ Jesus Christ.

But if all things came FROM THE FATHER, how did all things come THROUGH JESUS CHRIST?
((Recall also that trinity says that it was Jesus Christ who created all things….?!))

All [good] things are from the Father:

• “Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows.“ (James 1:17)
• “This is what the LORD says— your Redeemer, who formed you in the womb: I am the LORD, the Maker of all things, who stretches out the heavens, who spreads out the earth by myself,” (Isaiah 44:24)

We know that the ‘LORD’ is ‘YHWH’, God; the Father. And it states in that verse in Isaiah that it is ‘YHWH’ that created all things.

Why then does of ‘appear’ that Paul is claiming all things CAME TO BE THROUGH Jesus Christ?

Could this actually be an example of MISTRANSLATION OR ADDITIONAL TEXT by the trinitarian translators attempting to claim that it ‘YHWH’ lied that he and he alone, created all things?
((Recall also that trinity says that it was Jesus Christ who created all things….?!))

Think what it would mean for the preaching of Almighty God, and his SERVANT Christ, to be brought into disrepute for the sake of deviant ideology?

Nope, it fits perfectly with the concept of the Logos, cf. prologue to St John's gospel. Do JW's accept St. John's gospel, or do they consider it "deviant"?

But this cracked record of yours is really getting a bit tedious.

 

[Soapy]

It's not hard to understand at all. You are just trying to make it hard.
Jesus and the Father are One.

One what?

 

[Wildswanderer]

One what?

One God.

 

[Soapy]

Nope, it fits perfectly with the concept of the Logos, cf. prologue to St John's gospel. Do JW's accept St. John's gospel, or do they consider it "deviant"?

But this cracked record of yours is really getting a bit tedious.

I have no idea what JW really think about St John’s gospel.

I am just presenting what appears like double talk written as supposed claims but which are clearly at odds with the trinity claim.

 

[Trailblazer]

Jesus and the Father are One.

Yes, but that does not mean that Jesus is God.

 

[Soapy]

One God.

But Paul says that there is only one God - and that one God is the Father FROM WHOM ALL THINGS CAME… which marries with YHWH saying that He and He alone created all things - and we know and agree that YYWH is the Father.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Yes, but that does not mean that Jesus is God.

Of course it does.

 

[Wildswanderer]

But Paul says that there is only one God - and that one God is the Father FROM WHOM ALL THINGS CAME… which marries with YHWH saying that He and He alone created all things - and we know and agree that YYWH is the Father.

• For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”), yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.“ (1 Cor 8:5-6)

Paul makes it very clear that they are both the Creator in this verse. "From" ( the energy to create came from the Father) " Through" ( Jesus personally created all things)
Both are the Creator God.

 

[Soapy]

Yes, but that does not mean that Jesus is God.

Quite right…. The verse I quoted in the OP states exactly that the Father alone is God… and that Jesus Christ is the only Lord…

But the antagonists are not responding to the question - only spurting trinity tripe … oops, ideology!

 

[Soapy]

• For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”), yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.“ (1 Cor 8:5-6)

Paul makes it very clear that they are both the Creator in this verse. "From" ( the energy to create came from the Father) " Through" ( Jesus personally created all things)
Both are the Creator God.

Are you saying that Jesus Christ is YHWH… (please be aware what you are replying if you do claim that Jesus is YHWH!!)

 

[Trailblazer]

Of course it does.

“I and my Father are one” (John 10:30) means that whatever pertains to Jesus, all His acts and doings, are identical with the Will of the Father. Jesus and God also share the same Holy Spirit, so in that sense they are one and the same. Jesus also shares some (but not all) the Attributes of God so in that sense they are one and the same. The verse below says that God was manifest in the flesh; it does not say that God became flesh. God cannot become flesh because God is everlastingly hidden from the eyes of men. No one has ever seen God (John 1:18, 1 John 4:12). Many people saw Jesus so that means that Jesus was not God

1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Jesus was a Servant of God and that is why Jesus said to the Jews:

John 10:25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.

John 10:37-38 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

 

[exchemist]

Yes, but that does not mean that Jesus is God.

"In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God." ..... "The Word was made flesh and dwelt among us.."

OK, one can say St John's gospel was written last and was "corrupted" by nascent Trinitarian theology, but then you have to decide to write off St John's gospel - to my mind the one with the most beautiful and powerful ideas - as inauthentic. Christians can't really do that.

 

[Trailblazer]

Quite right…. The verse I quoted in the OP states exactly that the Father alone is God… and that Jesus Christ is the only Lord…

But the antagonists are not responding to the question - only spurting trinity tripe … oops, ideology!

Trinitarians do not have a leg to stand on, because the Bible proves that Jesus is not God. Here are only a few of the verses I selected.

Jesus claimed to reveal God, Whom He called Father, but Jesus differentiated Himself from God:

John 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself, even so gave he to the Son also to have life in himself:

John 8:40 But now ye seek to slay me, a man that have spoken to you [the] truth, that I heard of God; Abraham did not this thing.

John 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

John 16:23 And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.

Jesus said that God was greater than He was:

Mark 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

Matthew 4:10 Jesus said to him, 'Away from me, Satan! For it is written: "Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only."

John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

John 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

How could Jesus pray to and go to the Father if Jesus WAS the God the Father?

John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

John 16:16 A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me, because I go to the Father.

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

Moreover, Jesus said that no man has ever seen God:

John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

1 John 4:12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.

Jesus said He was from God and that God sent Him, again differentiating Himself from God:

John 17:3 And eternal life means to know you, the only true God, and to know Jesus Christ, whom you sent.

John 7:28 Then cried Jesus in the temple as he taught, saying, Ye both know me, and ye know whence I am: and I am not come of myself, but he that sent me is true, whom ye know not. 29 But I know him: for I am from him, and he hath sent me.

Jesus even stated specifically that the Father had knowledge which was not possessed by the Son.

Matthew 24:36 No one knows about that day or hour, not even the Son, but the Father only.

Mark 13:32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

Jesus referred to Himself as a Prophet, and was so regarded. Jesus never referred to Himself as God.

Matthew 13:57 And they were offended in him. But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, save in his own country, and in his own house.

Luke 13:33 Nevertheless I must walk to day, and to morrow, and the day following: for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem.

Matthew 21:11 And the multitude said, This is Jesus the prophet of Nazareth of Galilee.

Luke 7:16 And there came a fear on all: and they glorified God, saying, That a great prophet is risen up among us; and, That God hath visited his people.

Jesus IS NOT God Bible Quotes... Continued:

2 Corinthians 1:3 Blessed be God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies, and the God of all comfort;

1 Corinthians 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

2 Corinthians 11:31 The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which is blessed for evermore, knoweth that I lie not.

Acts 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:

Acts 17:31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

Ephesians 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

Romans 15:6 That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Colossians 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature.

1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

Hosea 11:9 I will not execute the fierceness of mine anger, I will not return to destroy Ephraim: for I am God, and not man; the Holy One in the midst of thee: and I will not enter into the city.

Numbers 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

 

[exchemist]

Trinitarians do not have a leg to stand on, because the Bible proves that Jesus is not God. Here are only a few of the verses I selected.

Jesus claimed to reveal God, Whom He called Father, but Jesus differentiated Himself from God:

John 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself, even so gave he to the Son also to have life in himself:

John 8:40 But now ye seek to slay me, a man that have spoken to you [the] truth, that I heard of God; Abraham did not this thing.

John 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

John 16:23 And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.

Jesus said that God was greater than He was:

Mark 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

Matthew 4:10 Jesus said to him, 'Away from me, Satan! For it is written: "Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only."

John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

John 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

How could Jesus pray to and go to the Father if Jesus WAS the God the Father?

John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

John 16:16 A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me, because I go to the Father.

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

Moreover, Jesus said that no man has ever seen God:

John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

1 John 4:12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.

Jesus said He was from God and that God sent Him, again differentiating Himself from God:

John 17:3 And eternal life means to know you, the only true God, and to know Jesus Christ, whom you sent.

John 7:28 Then cried Jesus in the temple as he taught, saying, Ye both know me, and ye know whence I am: and I am not come of myself, but he that sent me is true, whom ye know not. 29 But I know him: for I am from him, and he hath sent me.

Jesus even stated specifically that the Father had knowledge which was not possessed by the Son.

Matthew 24:36 No one knows about that day or hour, not even the Son, but the Father only.

Mark 13:32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

Jesus referred to Himself as a Prophet, and was so regarded. Jesus never referred to Himself as God.

Matthew 13:57 And they were offended in him. But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, save in his own country, and in his own house.

Luke 13:33 Nevertheless I must walk to day, and to morrow, and the day following: for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem.

Matthew 21:11 And the multitude said, This is Jesus the prophet of Nazareth of Galilee.

Luke 7:16 And there came a fear on all: and they glorified God, saying, That a great prophet is risen up among us; and, That God hath visited his people.

Jesus IS NOT God Bible Quotes... Continued:

2 Corinthians 1:3 Blessed be God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies, and the God of all comfort;

1 Corinthians 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

2 Corinthians 11:31 The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which is blessed for evermore, knoweth that I lie not.

Acts 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:

Acts 17:31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

Ephesians 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

Romans 15:6 That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Colossians 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature.

1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

Hosea 11:9 I will not execute the fierceness of mine anger, I will not return to destroy Ephraim: for I am God, and not man; the Holy One in the midst of thee: and I will not enter into the city.

Numbers 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

Do you really think none of the theologians of the Christian church, over the last 2000 years, have been aware of these passages? Or are you alleging a grand conspiracy to pervert their true meaning?

 

[Trailblazer]

"In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God." ..... "The Word was made flesh and dwelt among us.."

OK, one can say St John's gospel was written last and was "corrupted" by nascent Trinitarian theology, but then you have to decide to write off St John's gospel - to my mind the one with the most beautiful and powerful ideas - as inauthentic. Christians can't really do that.

I do not have to write off St John's gospel, and I have my own interpretation of it.

John 1 King James Version (KJV)
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

I believe that the Word refers to Jesus.

The Word was God because Jesus was God manifested in the flesh

I believe that the following two verses are about God, not about Jesus. All things were made by God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

To summarize, the Word was Jesus who was a Manifestation of God.

The Holy Spirit and the Word are the "appearance of God." The Word means the divine perfections that "appeared" in Jesus Christ. That's why we have this verse further down.

14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

The Word (Jesus) was made flesh and dwelt among us means that Jesus, who had previously been with God in the spiritual world (heaven) before His birth, was born into this world (made flesh) and walked among us. It does not mean that God became flesh.

 

[Trailblazer]

Do you really think none of the theologians of the Christian church, over the last 2000 years, have been aware of these passages? Or are you alleging a grand conspiracy to pervert their true meaning?

I am suggesting that they either ignored these verses or they misunderstood what they mean.
Clearly, they demonstrate that Jesus is not God, but the Church does not care because they have an agenda, and Jesus has to be God in order to fulfill their agenda.

 

[exchemist]

I am suggesting that they either ignored these verses or they misunderstood what they mean.
Clearly, they demonstrate that Jesus is not God, but the Church does not care because they have an agenda, and Jesus has to be God in order to fulfill their agenda.

What agenda is that?

 

[Trailblazer]

What agenda is that?

To be the only true religion.