atheism is a (religious position)

[Eddi]

Premise 1: Having a God Concept makes any belief system a religion - if a belief system features a belief about God then it is a religious belief system

Premise 2: Atheists have a God Concept. They have a position on God, an opinion on God that qualifies as a position and an opinion on God, even though Atheists either see no valid reason to believe in God or explicitly reject such a belief. The point is, they still have God-beliefs

You cannot spell "Atheist" without the word "Theist"

The Atheist God Concept is that God is made up by humans who didn't know any better and is nothing more than myth

Conclusion: Atheism is a religion

Edit: I no longer believe Atheism is a religion. But I do maintain that it is a religious position, so is the same type of thing as religions

 

[SalixIncendium]

Atheism is as much a religion as not collecting stamps is a hobby.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Premise 1: Having a God Concept makes any belief system a religion - if a belief system features a belief about God then it is a religious belief system

Premise 2: Atheists have a God Concept. They have a position on God, an opinion on God that qualifies as a position and an opinion on God, even though it affirms there is no God.

You cannot spell "Atheist" without the word "Theist"

The Atheist God Concept is that God is made up by humans who didn't know any better and is nothing more than myth

Conclusion: Atheism is a religion

No. Just no. That bold one is false.

 

[Eddi]

Atheism is as much a religion as not collecting stamps is a hobby.

Not collecting stamps is a hobby that is based on the absence of a decision not to collect stamps

By not electing to collect stamps one has taken a stance on stamp collecting

Not collecting stamps is a relationship to stamp collecting

A non-stamp collector has a relationship to stamp collecting: he or she does not collect stamps

 

[Eddi]

No. Just no. That bold one is false.

OK, I'm going to change that

Give me a minute......

 

[Augustus]

Atheism isn't a religion, but all atheists hold 'religious-type' views as part of whatever ideologies they follow.

We all have "sacred values", and the narratives and myths that underpin them are functionally identical to religious narratives and are pretty much essential for fully functioning human cognition.

 

[Eddi]

No. Just no. That bold one is false.

OK, I've changed the OP to better reflect what Atheists believe

Tell me, in what way is the argument I presented unsound?

 

[Guitar's Cry]

Premise 1: Having a God Concept makes any belief system a religion - if a belief system features a belief about God then it is a religious belief system

Atheists aren't operating within a belief system. They lack a belief in god. Saying "they believe in no god" negates the belief part.

 

[Eddi]

Atheists aren't operating within a belief system. They lack a belief in god. Saying "they believe in no god" negates the belief part.

I'd say that disbelief is a type of belief

You cannot spell "disbelief" without "belief"

I don't believe in the Loch Ness monster

I therefore structure my life around that disbelief as much as I do my beliefs - for instance I wouldn't waste time trying to see the Loch Ness monster

When it comes to structuring lifestyles disbeliefs work the same way as beliefs

And disbeliefs can be rephrased into beliefs - e.g. "I believe there is no Loch Ness Monster" as opposed to "I don't believe there is a Loch Ness Monster"

I don't think there is any difference between beliefs and non-beliefs

 

[Augustus]

Atheists aren't operating within a belief system.

They generally are, it's just not fully defined by the term atheism which is only a constituent part of their belief system.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Premise 1: Having a God Concept makes any belief system a religion - if a belief system features a belief about God then it is a religious belief system

Premise 2: Atheists have a God Concept. They have a position on God, an opinion on God that qualifies as a position and an opinion on God, even though Atheists either see no valid reason to believe in God or explicitly reject such a belief. The point is, they still have God-beliefs

You cannot spell "Atheist" without the word "Theist"

The Atheist God Concept is that God is made up by humans who didn't know any better and is nothing more than myth

Conclusion: Atheism is a religion

A religion is not about God as such. It is about what matters for humans and what makes a human a human for non-objective worth.
Never debate an atheist as being an atheist. That is pointless. Debate what positive beliefs that atheist holds for what the world is and how that matters. I.e. the rest of that person's worldview and not that the person is an atheist.

 

[Eddi]

A religion is not about God as such. It is about what matters for humans and what makes a human a human for non-objective worth.
Never debate an atheist as being an atheist. That is pointless. Debate what positive beliefs that atheist holds for what the world is and how that matters. I.e. the rest of that person's worldview and not that the person is an atheist.

Allow me to slim down my argument:

A religion is a belief system that is to some extent informed by a God Concept

Atheism is informed by a God Concept - in practical terms, this means Atheists don't worship or believe in God. The Atheist God Concept influences a person's world view

Therefore Atheism is a religious position - but no, it is not a religion - it is a religious position

I'd like to change my claim - "Atheism is a religious position" - what would you say to that?

As a side note, when I was an Atheist I considered Atheism to be a religion

I am now going to alter my OP

Thanks for helping me evolve my views

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Allow me to slim down my argument:

A religion is a belief system that is to some extent informed by a God Concept

Atheism is informed by a God Concept - in practical terms, this means Atheists don't worship or believe in God. The Atheist God Concept influences a person's world view

Therefore Atheism is a religious position - but no, it is not a religion - it is a religious position

I'd like to change my claim - "Atheism is a religious position" - what would you say to that?

As a side note, when I was an Atheist I considered Atheism to be a religion

I am now going to alter my OP

Thanks for helping me evolve my views

A religion is a belief system that is to some extent informed by a God Concept.

No, you can have a positive belief system without a God. Thus you don't need a God concept to be religious.
You then in effect cheat and claim that any beliefs can only be made as with a positive or negative view of God. That is not so, you don't need a God concept to be religious. It is you as you who makes it about God and insisting that we must all do that too.

For the rest of your post, we can deal with it latter, but as long as you claim that all religions must be evaluated in regards to God and you don't understand that this is some you claim, then we are stuck.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

A religion, as I understand it, is an organized set of principles and practices that are followed by a mass of people. Atheism has no organized principles or practices, it’s simply a theological concept of God not existing.

Atheism isn’t a religion in the same way Theism isn’t a religion or ontological concepts such as Monism or Determinism.

 

[Eddi]

No, you can have a positive belief system without a God

I totally agree

However: Maintaining a belief in God is not the same as holding a God Concept. "God doesn't exist" is a God Concept.

Thus you don't need a God concept to be religious.

Yes, religions can function perfectly well without there being a God in the picture. But all religions feature a God Concept of some kind

you don't need a God concept to be religious.

I agree, you don't need one

But all religions that exist do have some kind of a God Concept - a view on God

All religions have their own God Concepts, if only in the form of a rough approach to thinking about God

I'd actually go further, and say that all human beings have their own God Concept but no, this doesn't translate into all human beings being religious as one can have a God Concept whilst being irreligious

 

[SalixIncendium]

Not collecting stamps is a hobby that is based on the absence of a decision not to collect stamps

No. A hobby is defined as a pursuit or an activity. Stamp collecting qualifies as a pursuit or an activity. Not collecting stamps is a absence of that pursuit/activity, and therefore not a hobby.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I totally agree

However: Maintaining a belief in God is not the same as holding a God Concept. "God doesn't exist" is a God Concept.


Yes, religions can function perfectly well without there being a God in the picture. But all religions feature a God Concept of some kind


I agree, you don't need one

But all religions that exist do have some kind of a God Concept - a view on God

All religions have their own God Concepts, if only in the form of a rough approach to thinking about God

I'd actually go further, and say that all human beings have their own God Concept but no, this doesn't translate into all human beings being religious as one can have a God Concept whilst being irreligious

There are 3 versions at least of it for beliefs:
Positive, negative and don't care one way or another.

For knowledge again at least 3:
Know, don't know and meaningless concept.

So you have to cover all 6 at least when including God for all religions, who have a cultural contact for the concept of God.
Now if we can agree on that, we can move on to atheism.

 

[Eddi]

No. A hobby is defined as a pursuit or an activity. Stamp collecting qualifies as a pursuit or an activity. Not collecting stamps is a absence of that pursuit/activity, and therefore not a hobby.

No......

Stamp Collecting is a relationship to stamps

Non-Stamp Collecting is also a relationship to stamps

The former is in the form of a hobby

The latter is in the form of an absence of a hobby

 

[Audie]

Premise 1: Having a God Concept makes any belief system a religion - if a belief system features a belief about God then it is a religious belief system

Premise 2: Atheists have a God Concept. They have a position on God, an opinion on God that qualifies as a position and an opinion on God, even though Atheists either see no valid reason to believe in God or explicitly reject such a belief. The point is, they still have God-beliefs

You cannot spell "Atheist" without the word "Theist"

The Atheist God Concept is that God is made up by humans who didn't know any better and is nothing more than myth

Conclusion: Atheism is a religion

Edit: I no longer believe Atheism is a religion. But I do maintain that it is a religious position, so is the same type of thing as religions

Such contorted thinking.

It's much simpler.

It's simple disbelief.

Ever get a scam phone call?

I've had guys make me promises I didn't believe.

I hear ads I don't believe.

It's not a new " ism" springs into existence
every time some nonsense is not believed.

What could use some consideration on your
part is what's behind Believers just going
about believing things, no matter what.

 

[Eddi]

There are 3 versions at least of it for beliefs:
Positive, negative and don't care one way or another.

For knowledge again at least 3:
Know, don't know and meaningless concept.

So you have to cover all 6 at least when including God for all religions, who have a cultural contact for the concept of God.
Now if we can agree on that, we can move on to atheism.

Sorry, I'm not getting what you're saying

Probably that's a me issue rather than a you issue...