How did the Egyptians build the pyramids?

shunyadragon said:

No, pullies and counter weights. You realize that ancient cultures move huge stones around in many cultures of the world, and built huge monuments with human power.

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A crane is just a system of pulleys and counterforces mounted on a tall structure, it is still just a combination of simple machines.

Somebody didn't understand basic physics from the ancient world.

GoodAttention said:

None of this information gives any idea about how they were constructed.

This person failed to recreate the pulley system.

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Pulley
noun

1. a wheel with a grooved rim around which a cord passes. It acts to change the direction of a force applied to the cord and is chiefly used (typically in combination) to raise heavy weights.
   ​

shunyadragon said:

The simple physics of ramps, counterweights and pullies works, and the physics of your alternative fails. to move large blocks up the sides of the pyramids, The Meidum pyramid used ramps like found in the quarry.

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It's just like the Evolution threads; I address every point and no one addresses mine except to gainsay them without any evidence at all.

Nobody addresses simple facts like the word "ramp" being unattested and that the titles of the builders don't match Egyptological beliefs. They ignore the physical evidence like the funicular runs. They offer no opinion on how I can make predictions and experts can not.

You may not be aware of it since the pulley is simpler than the wheel and the wheel was 1000 years old when the pyramids were built in 2800 BC but Egyptologists think the Egyptians were so ignorant and backward that they didn't have the pulley! Then for truly stupid they think they had a quarter of a pulley they call a "proto-pulley".

Astounding!!

Opinion is cited as physical reality and fact and physical evidence and facts are ignored.

Homo omnisciencis!

blü 2 said:

I'm already sufficiently informed.

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So is everyone who has his mind made up.

shunyadragon said:

The problem is no one has come up with a practical alternative for engineering and construction methods, Though @cladking proposes a more supernatural mythical alternative which lacks any support or evidence. Something like the "Gods did it,"

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WHY DO YOU NOT RESPOND TO THE FACT I HAVE ALREADY PROVEN THAT NOT ONLY MUST THEY HAVE USED RAMPS BUT A FAR EASIER MEANS IS EVIDENCED ON EVERY PYRAMID?

IS THIS THING ON?

It would be a thousand times easier to pull stones straight up the sides of the step. There is no real doubt that this is exactly how every great pyramid was built. I have shown this. The question is whether teams of superstitious and ignorant bumpkins pulled them up from the tops of the steps or funiculars strung over the step pulled them up.

Ramps are done. Stick them with a fork. Egyptology is done too but one step at a time.

shunyadragon said:

Reinventing the Egyptian Pulley | EXARC​

Summary: 8th UK EA Conference Oxford 2014 ***The Egyptian pulley incorporates several novel, useful features. The design involves only significant compressive loading of its two components. The materials of construction are high compressive strength materials... The content is published under a...

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I invented this.

Someone asked me in 2007 if they had the pulley and I said they had a device called a "dm-sceptre" that changed to direction of the rope because this is what it says in the PT. I said it doesn't matter if it's a pulley or a log rotating in a trough.

There's almost no evidence for this silly pulley. All we need to know is they used a "dm-sceptre". There's a little more evidence for a pulley but not much.

Astounding!!

shunyadragon said:

How the Egyptian Pyramids Were Built Inspires Engineering Historians

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How is it possible anyone can mistake this for science?

"Archaeologists also believe that once the stones were on site, the Egyptians used inclined ramps to move them up to higher levels of the pyramid. A key debate, however, focuses on the configuration of these ramps: were they straight-on, perpendicular, spiral or perhaps zig-zag ramps built on the pyramid or just leaning against it?"

Egyptologists refuse to apply modern science and its techniques to a methodical and systematic study of the pyramids which would very quickly show how they were built. Instead they argue about the shapes of the ramps and brag about studying the pyramids with their backs to them!

There is only science and not science. Nothing about Egyptology related to the great pyramids is science. Nothing! Any support they get is from people who aren't familiar with the situation AND the evidence.

shunyadragon said:

Scientists share the opinion that primitive forms of pulleys, pulley systemsand cranes
were used whilebuilding huge constructionsanderecting monoliths in the ancient world,
such as Stonehenge in England, Göbekli Tepein Türkiye, Pyramids in ancient Egypt and
Mesoamerica as well as in many other civilizations all aroundtheworld. Pulley systems
are also used for various domestic reasons in the ancient world, such as olive oil extractions

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This is a false statement.

No Egyptologist has said they might have a pulley. They know for a fact that ramps were used.

Pogo said:

You are confusing geology with (material science?) construction material, To a geologist limestone is a stone formed in a particular way. Your reconstituted limestone no matter how close it seems to function or look is concrete, a combination of an aggregate (crushed limestone) and binder (burnt limestone). It is basically definitional.

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Yes it is definitional.

However, the properties of reconstituted limestone is better than both both natural limestone and concrete.

Problem with any “concrete” is that it will shrink and crack, which suggests an inferior product to cut stone.

shunyadragon said:

The Meidum pyramid was smaller therefore smaller blocks. The trend was over time they pyramids were larger and the blocks were larger,

ALL pyramids are built on an inner stone structure of some sort where the rooms and tombs were located,. The references I gave supported all the pyramids were mostly built of stone blocks. The terraced nature of the inner core of pyramids made it easier to use ramps.

Technology and accuracy increased with time as the pyramids grew larger.

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Consider a ramp.

An incline would need to be cut from the stone if moving it along the structure. The steeper the incline, the more difficult to position the stone flush against it so to move it.

Or a ramp would have to be constructed. The two ramps founds so far have not been at the pyramid site, and appear to be cut out from the ground.

How was a ramp built? What was the surface of the ramp? How did it support the weight of the stone?

GoodAttention said:

There is in fact very little available on any methods to move massive blocks.

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Indeed!

The builders described these stones in flight just like the Arab legend;

1128c. Osiris asks to see thee in the form which has become thine;
1129a. it is thy son who asks to see thee in the form which has become thine;
1129b. it is Horus who asks to see thee in the form which has become thine.
1130a. When thou sayest, "statues", in respect to these stones,
1130b. which are like fledglings of swallows under the river-bank;

The problem here is that Egyptologists never bothered to even look and see what a fledgling of a swallow looks like. They research nothing about physical evidence or about what the builders said. I researched everything. Many tens of thousands of searches later I know that "horus" means "stones that make tayet large" where tayet is the quarry. Horuses are removed from the ground by "sculptors" who free them.

Isis gives the horuses birth by lifting them out of the quarry;

"I have given birth to him for thee; I have deposited him for thee; 1 have certainly spit him out for thee. He has no feet; he has no arms,"

Despite having no arms horus sits on his hands which represent his ability to affect reality through his weight.

This stuff isn't hard but it can't be seen if you believe in ignorant superstitious bumpkins.

If they had looked up swallows they'd know that on their first flight they fly right above the ground and hug every contour making a series of short flights just like the stones that moved 300' at a time. This is what the horuses flying to the pyramids looked like; fledglings of swallows.

THE STONES FLY TO THE PYRAMID AND THEN THEY FLY STRAIGHT UP THE SIDE JUST LIKE THE BUILDERS SAID OVER AND OVER AND OVER.

No ramps. Ramps are stupid. They were always stupid. All stones were lifted straight up the 70 degree sides from above.


"

shunyadragon said:

False, no references provided, I gave the references with details that the pyramids were built of quarried stone from known sources and dominant stone was the softer limestone quarried in the region and some was molded into a primitive concrete

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There are lots of bad sources. You have used a bad source.

The bulk of the pyramid came from on site. This is a fact whether any source agrees or not. Backing stones were tura and casing stones were tura. There is some other tura in construction and was a great deal in the water tight enclosure at the base used to retain some 100 acre feet of water (possibly more). This water was used in the cliff face funiculars that still exist in ruins. It was used in the "min" and for the saws on the east side. Small amounts were channeled to the quarry for an hydraulic elevator (filled in with concrete by Hawass) and for dust suppression.

They are believed to have made a mortar that was like a slurry but the evidence is not convincing. They certainly used copious amounts of another mortar that may or may not have been thin (I suspect not). Some "stones" appear to be aggregate, reconstituted stone or whatever but Egyptology does so little science it's not known. There are some sharp people who think this was done extensively but I don't know and Egyptologists don't agree (for however little that's worth).

People need to stop trusting Egyptology. Not even Egyptologists see study results any longer so if it were solved today no one would know except Zahi Hawass and he isn't talking. He's looking for gold.

shunyadragon said:

You go play your mythical fantacies that the pyramids were built by Gods for their entertainment.

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Do you read anything I write? It might explain why you ignore it.

I said "gods were not imaginary consciousnesses" and you see "Gods were real Consciousnesses".

Even after I defined them dozens of times as "specific laws of nature" you act as though I believe they are walking talking Gods. Gravity isn't a god and their word was "gravity" was "tefnut" and she was a "neter" whichis best thought of as "a nature" and Egyptology translates it as "God". You are playing word games again and continuing to ignore my every point.

Do you never tire of word games?

shunyadragon said:

Technology and accuracy increased with time as the pyramids grew larger.

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This is another one I always enjoy.

Egyptologists call it "ramp technology".

Astounding!

GoodAttention said:

Or a ramp would have to be constructed. The two ramps founds so far have not been at the pyramid site, and appear to be cut out from the ground.

How was a ramp built? What was the surface of the ramp? How did it support the weight of the stone?

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I've hardly scratched the surface of the problems with every single ramp theory.

All the visible lines etched into the great pyramids are horizontal or vertical. This is consistent with pulling stones straight up the side and inconsistent with all possible ramping systems.

I can see how 19th century scientists were confused but we have more data today.

Maybe I'm too easy on Egyptology. It's been twenty years almost and the only reaction to solving this was Zahi Hawass called my ideas "other unscientific theories on the net" back in 2010 about the time Barack Obama visited.

I would never have imagined that anyone could be ignored by any so called science. Oh sure, I poke them and they wiggle a little and turned over a couple times but otherwise they are almost inert. If they know I'm wrong why won't they just tell me and if they know I'm right (hardly surprising) why don't they try to start breaking this to people a little at a time? I could certainly cooperate. Perhaps it's because the next step is releasing the results of the infrared scan and it will (has really) proven me right so there can be no "little at a time" and my cooperation is irrelevant.

There were so many beliefs I had to lose in solving this. But the biggest of all is I used believe every scientist on the face of the planet virtually by definition seeks the truth and a better understanding of reality. This doesn't seem to apply to a great number of Egyptologists. Why don't I hear them screaming about Hawass sitting on test results for ten years?

Then I think maybe I should just stop. Maybe this is all too hard on people. But once the genie is out of the bottle it can't be shoved back in and the behavior of real scientists is starting to suggest this genie is completely out already.

Man fears the pyramid, the pyramid fears time.

There were no ramps and we are stinky footed bumpkins. Get used to it or address my argument.

cladking said:

WHY DO YOU NOT RESPOND TO THE FACT I HAVE ALREADY PROVEN THAT NOT ONLY MUST THEY HAVE USED RAMPS BUT A FAR EASIER MEANS IS EVIDENCED ON EVERY PYRAMID?

IS THIS THING ON?

It would be a thousand times easier to pull stones straight up the sides of the step. There is no real doubt that this is exactly how every great pyramid was built. I have shown this. The question is whether teams of superstitious and ignorant bumpkins pulled them up from the tops of the steps or funiculars strung over the step pulled them up.

Ramps are done. Stick them with a fork. Egyptology is done too but one step at a time.

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Bag the all caps, you are arguing your personal beliefs in words while not even using them correctly. A funicular is a ramp with a few added simple machines but it is a ramp. If it was vertical then it would be an elevator or a crane and they are not ramps though they use some of the methods of your funicular.

realistically they probably used external ramps for the lower levels to gain more mechanical advantage for the very heavy lower level stones and didn't need more than the already there slope of the sides for the lighter blocks that were used farther up.

Now if you can, describe this "FAR EASIER MEANS" or is it just a ramp with the motive force supplied by use of other simple means rather than a scrum.

Otherwise this no more evident of some sort of knowledge than the cavemen who found it easier to move a large rock by pushing it rather than trying to pick it up and carry it.

Pogo said:

Bag the all caps, you are arguing your personal beliefs in words while not even using them correctly. A funicular is a ramp with a few added simple machines but it is a ramp. If it was vertical then it would be an elevator or a crane and they are not ramps though they use some of the methods of your funicular.

realistically they probably used external ramps for the lower levels to gain more mechanical advantage for the very heavy lower level stones and didn't need more than the already there slope of the sides for the lighter blocks that were used farther up.

Now if you can, describe this "FAR EASIER MEANS" or is it just a ramp with the motive force supplied by use of other simple means rather than a scrum.

Otherwise this no more evident of some sort of knowledge than the cavemen who found it easier to move a large rock by pushing it rather than trying to pick it up and carry it.

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Incredible. a funicular is a type of crane but a crane is not a funicular. These were linear funiculars. Men got to work riding the funicular on the center of the east side. Instead of reporting to the pyramid top with a 21/2 ton stone and their bedroom furniture they were well rested from a night in the comfort of the builders village and ate before they ever saw any kind of ramp. Then they were still well rested when they reported to work atop the pyramid. Dragging stones up ramps is a really poor way to start or end any day. And the EVIDENCE says it never happened.

In the very post you ignored and resorted to more word games I said I proved already how it was done;

"It would be a thousand times easier to pull stones straight up the sides of the step."

The men simply could stand on the step tops and pull the stones up. THIS is what the steps were for; to create working surfaces allowing more men to work at a time and in far greater comfort. Ramps are disproven. Why cling to a sinking ramp?

One of the many things ramp proponents don't understand is that for everyman who isn't pulling hard on the ropes you need another man. Before long you have 50 men dragging a stone that weighs less than the men pulling it. This means far lower efficiency because the men who aren't pulling have to lift their own weight up the ramp too. Everyone's getting worn out in 120 degree heat with no first aid and nothing but bad water to drink.

If you ride up a building in an elevator you don't know if it's being powered by a horse or an electric motor. If you ride up the pyramid in the funicular it doesn't matter if you know it's just the henu boat full of water or not. You still go up, you don't break a sweat, and you have a full day's work in front of you.

I have little doubt many men went home in the henu boat to cool off and wash their stinky feet but it was probably frowned upon. They wouldn't have frowned too hard though because it's another 160 lbs of stone being lifted.

Now you'll ignore this post too and play a new word game.

GoodAttention said:

Consider a ramp.

An incline would need to be cut from the stone if moving it along the structure. The steeper the incline, the more difficult to position the stone flush against it so to move it.

Or a ramp would have to be constructed. The two ramps founds so far have not been at the pyramid site, and appear to be cut out from the ground.

How was a ramp built? What was the surface of the ramp? How did it support the weight of the stone?

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Or use the old fashion method using the sides of the pyramid as the ramp. The ramp does not need to be smooth, just support the load being slid/dragged up it.

Here is one typically used for sliding 1000 lb loads up stairsteps up to 40 degrees or so, increase size as necessary.

cladking said:

Incredible. a funicular is a type of crane but a crane is not a funicular. These were linear funiculars. Men got to work riding the funicular on the center of the east side. Instead of reporting to the pyramid top with a 21/2 ton stone and their bedroom furniture they were well rested from a night in the comfort of the builders village and ate before they ever saw any kind of ramp. Then they were still well rested when they reported to work atop the pyramid. Dragging stones up ramps is a really poor way to start or end any day. And the EVIDENCE says it never happened.

In the very post you ignored and resorted to more word games I said I proved already how it was done;

"It would be a thousand times easier to pull stones straight up the sides of the step."

The men simply could stand on the step tops and pull the stones up. THIS is what the steps were for; to create working surfaces allowing more men to work at a time and in far greater comfort. Ramps are disproven. Why cling to a sinking ramp?

One of the many things ramp proponents don't understand is that for everyman who isn't pulling hard on the ropes you need another man. Before long you have 50 men dragging a stone that weighs less than the men pulling it. This means far lower efficiency because the men who aren't pulling have to lift their own weight up the ramp too. Everyone's getting worn out in 120 degree heat with no first aid and nothing but bad water to drink.

If you ride up a building in an elevator you don't know if it's being powered by a horse or an electric motor. If you ride up the pyramid in the funicular it doesn't matter if you know it's just the henu boat full of water or not. You still go up, you don't break a sweat, and you have a full day's work in front of you.

I have little doubt many men went home in the henu boat to cool off and wash their stinky feet but it was probably frowned upon. They wouldn't have frowned too hard though because it's another 160 lbs of stone being lifted.

Now you'll ignore this post too and play a new word game.

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Yeah Right and since it all based on Swallows, you can actually answer this one.