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  1. sageowl

    CES Letter

    Orontes, You comment on only style and texture, but not at all on content? Its like reporting on a presidential debate and discussing only the men's suits, asking who wore it best and a speculating about a Hilary wardrobe malfunction. (There's an arresting thought.)
  2. sageowl

    CES Letter

    Has everyone else already seen this: http://cesletter.com/Letter-to-a-CES-Director.pdf Thoughts???!
  3. sageowl

    The Noah Story: How literally do you take it?

    Hi Katz, Thank you for your honest answer. Do you find that your take on the Old testament is one that you can comfortably share with other LDS folks in a formal church setting such as a sunday school class?
  4. sageowl

    The Noah Story: How literally do you take it?

    Hi LDS-ers, Growing up in the church, I was taught that the Noah tale in the bible was simple face value truth, and as far as I could tell, I was surrounded by people who genuinely believed it to be so. As an adult with a non-professional but active interest history and science, I have to say...
  5. sageowl

    Noah: myth or fact?

    lol. ok, mr. pedantic. So, let me make sure I have you right on this. It is LITERALLY true that a minimum of 2 critters of every species was aboard?
  6. sageowl

    Noah: myth or fact?

    Does the Christian world take this story as literal truth? The world wide flood, just about 4000 years ago, 2 of every single species on a boat etc etc? I must say it seems very implausible. Am I missing something? Are there theories floating around (ha ha) to make this story seem more likely?
  7. sageowl

    Conversation with an EX Westboro Baptist

    The other thing I thought was incredible was the way she described her old church mates as, for the most part,really good, intelligent, decent, caring people who just, unfortunately, genuinely believed some absolutely strange and destructive things.
  8. sageowl

    Conversation with an EX Westboro Baptist

    This podcast, which is a fascinating interview with the granddaughter of the founder of the infamous Westboro Baptist church, is an hour and 15 minutes long, but well worth the time. She tells what it was like growing up indoctrinated with these type of highly fringe beliefs, how she broke free...
  9. sageowl

    Cain story in Miracle of Forgiveness

    Thanks guys! And Katz, that kipling quote at the bottom of your signature... excellent.
  10. sageowl

    I am in desperate need of help...

    Eh that sucks, but is unfortunately not all that uncommon. I think NoWhere Man has given you the best advice yet. Take some chill time. You aren't going to get all your major life questions answered in an instant. Figuring this stuff out takes time. Nothing wrong with that at all. Also, if you...
  11. sageowl

    Cain story in Miracle of Forgiveness

    Hey clear, thanks again for your second response. I think you are prolly taking me waaay too seriously btw... I'm definitely not looking for a verbal fight with you or anybody. I dont like fighting. I like chewing over things mentally, and I like collaborating with other minds to get other...
  12. sageowl

    Cain story in Miracle of Forgiveness

    Clear, Katz, Thanks for the responses. While I agree w you Clear, that there isn't enough data to scientifically pin down what category this story falls into, I'm just asking for a ... you know, gut feel. what do you think? Given the distinctly 'vague and tenuous' chain of data, I would...
  13. sageowl

    Samson

    Neat. Let me ask you this though. Do you regard the Samson story as truth or a myth? (I find all kinds of inspiration in fiction. But I dont regard my comics as actual history, they way so many of the adults in my chilhood religious upbringing regarded Samson, and a host of other unlikely...
  14. sageowl

    Samson

    ha ha Lyndon, thanks for the response. It took me a minute to realize you were being sincere. I spent a confused minute thinking you were an atheist trying to troll and failing badly!
  15. sageowl

    I am in desperate need of help...

    Wow, sorry to hear you are having to wade through all that. I wish there was something I could do other than express some sympathy from a complete stranger (me). My guess is that if you think you are suffering from some kind of clinical depression, there is a good chance you are. Professional...
  16. sageowl

    Samson

    I grew up with my parents and Sunday school teachers telling me all the classic OT bible stories. I could ask this about any number of these tales, but Samson is on my mind today. Samson. Superstrong man. These days, this story sounds like just another Tall Tale, a folk story, along the lines...
  17. sageowl

    Harsh Truth: If Intelligent Design is Untestable . . .

    A mind made up, well armored against any new ideas?
  18. sageowl

    Cain story in Miracle of Forgiveness

    I think this story has much more the vibe of a ghost story or a schizophrenic episode than anything to be taken seriously. But Spencer Kimball took it seriously enough to include in his book Miracle of Forgiveness. (see below). Informal survey: Mormons, do you think this story is: 1- True 2-...
  19. sageowl

    Could 'gods' evolve?

    Thanks for the tip. Clearly Everything is 'evolving' -not necessarily in the biological sense, but in the sense that change happens and the changes that happen to be good at sticking around and propagating, proliferate. I guess one way to parse the question I am asking with this thread is to...
  20. sageowl

    Could 'gods' evolve?

    Concur. Concur all over the place. As N pointed out death and reproduction are the staple mechanisms of biological evolution as we know it, but what we know is not a limit to what could be.
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