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  1. Clear

    THE CREATION OF THE TRADITION OF "ORAL LAW" IN RABBINIC JUDAISM

    POST THREE OF FOUR Later, nearing the time of Judahs captivity in Babylon, Jeremiah the prophet again chastises ISRAEL for their unfaithfulness and bad actions. In Chap 3 the prophet says regarding ISRAEL : 1“If a man divorces his wife and she leaves him to marry another, can he ever return...
  2. Clear

    THE CREATION OF THE TRADITION OF "ORAL LAW" IN RABBINIC JUDAISM

    POST TWO OF FOUR 5) ISRAEL HAS A HISTORY OF BEING CHASTIZED AND PUNISHED FOR HAVING IDOLATROUS BELIEFS AND PRACTICES Clear pointed out : “This was one of the repeated complaints of the Prophets against Israel anciently. The pattern in the Old Testament was that Israel so often would adopt...
  3. Clear

    THE CREATION OF THE TRADITION OF "ORAL LAW" IN RABBINIC JUDAISM

    POST ONE OF FOUR 1) REGARDING THE RABBANITE (RABBINIC JEWISH) DOCTRINE THAT ADAM WAS CREATED WITH MALE AND FEMALE SEXUAL ORGANS (divine religion versus man-made religion) Rosends clarifies : “While there is a rabbinic interpretation and there are midrashic stories about the physical...
  4. Clear

    THE CREATION OF THE TRADITION OF "ORAL LAW" IN RABBINIC JUDAISM

    POST TWO OF THREE 6) REGARDING ROSENDS CLAIM TO HAVE LOOKED UP THE MOTIVES AND FEELING OF THE JEWISH RABBIS THAT CLEAR QUOTED Clear said in post #3 regarding Jayhawk Souls suggestion that I read Halivni for information on Oral law. I've read the article you referred to and it is part of what...
  5. Clear

    THE CREATION OF THE TRADITION OF "ORAL LAW" IN RABBINIC JUDAISM

    POST ONE OF THREE 1) MANY RABBINIC RULES SHOW A LACK OF COMMON SENSE OR JUDGMENT Clear said : “The “what” is that the claim that Moses dictated these silly rules about hand washing and ceremonial washing of dishes given to a jew by a non-jew is not historically tenable.” Rosends said ...
  6. Clear

    THE CREATION OF THE TRADITION OF "ORAL LAW" IN RABBINIC JUDAISM

    POST TWO OF TWO 7) WHAT SORT OF ACTUAL HISTORICAL EVIDENCE HAS ROSENDS PROVIDED FOR THE THEORY OF MOSES HANDING VAST AMOUNT OF LAW DOWN FOR MEMORIZATION OVER EONS OF TIME Clear pointed out : “If there is no evidence that Moses handed down a vast set of oral laws that were intended to be...
  7. Clear

    THE CREATION OF THE TRADITION OF "ORAL LAW" IN RABBINIC JUDAISM

    POST ONE OF TWO Hi @rosends 1) MANY RABBINIC RULES SHOW A LACK OF COMMON SENSE OR JUDGMENT Clear said : “The “what” is that the claim that Moses dictated these silly rules about hand washing and ceremonial washing of dishes given to a jew by a non-jew is not historically tenable.” Rosends...
  8. Clear

    THE CREATION OF THE TRADITION OF "ORAL LAW" IN RABBINIC JUDAISM

    POST TWO OF TWO 8) IS NUMBERS 31:23 JUSTIFICATION FOR THE CREATION OF A JEWISH RULE TO CEREMONIALLY WASH DISHES WHILE SAYING A PRAYER OVER THE DISHES? Clear said : "“You offered Numbers 31:23 as justification as to why Jews are required to wash dishes given them by non-Jews. Rosends said ...
  9. Clear

    THE CREATION OF THE TRADITION OF "ORAL LAW" IN RABBINIC JUDAISM

    POST ONE OF TWO 1) REGARDING MISUNDERSTANDING WHEN ONE ATTEMPTS TO ANSWER HISTORICAL DATA WITH OBLIQUE ANSWERS AND AD HOMINEMS Rosends claimed : “When the sages set the oral law (that had been passed down, dating back to Sinai) they were not innovating but codifying. They had already been...
  10. Clear

    THE CREATION OF THE TRADITION OF "ORAL LAW" IN RABBINIC JUDAISM

    Hi @rosends 1) REGARDING THE RABBANITE (RABBINIC JEWISH) CLAIM THAT MOSES DICTATED VAST AMOUNTS OF ORAL LAW THAT WAS HANDED DOWN BY MEMORIZATION OVER EONS OF TIME Clear explained : The way history works is that historical data is present to indicate a specific event happened. There is no...
  11. Clear

    THE CREATION OF THE TRADITION OF "ORAL LAW" IN RABBINIC JUDAISM

    1) REGARDING THE RABBANITE (RABBINIC JEWISH) CLAIM THAT MOSES DICTATED VAST AMOUNTS OF ORAL LAW THAT WAS HANDED DOWN BY MEMORIZATION OVER EONS OF TIME Clear explained : The way history works is that historical data is present to indicate a specific event happened. There is no evidence Moses...
  12. Clear

    THE CREATION OF THE TRADITION OF "ORAL LAW" IN RABBINIC JUDAISM

    Hi @rosends 1) CONFIRMED HISTORY IS CREATED BY HISTORICAL DATA AND NOT BY A CLAIM MADE IN ABSENCE OF HISTORICAL DATA. Clear said regarding the Pharisees and the later Rabbanites (Rabbinic Judaism) “They were not codifying a vast amount of law handed down from moses through unerring...
  13. Clear

    THE CREATION OF THE TRADITION OF "ORAL LAW" IN RABBINIC JUDAISM

    Hi @rosends 1) REGARDING MISUNDERSTANDING WHEN ONE ATTEMPTS TO ANSWER HISTORICAL DATA WITH OBLIQUE ANSWERS AND AD HOMINEMS If there is misunderstanding, you must take some responsibility for this with your oblique answers and ad hominems rather than offering any historical data to support...
  14. Clear

    THE CREATION OF THE TRADITION OF "ORAL LAW" IN RABBINIC JUDAISM

    Hi @rosends 1) REGARDING THE MISHNA CONTAINING THE TRADITIONS OF MEN Rosends said : “Some of the rules eventually written down as the mishna are divine. Some aren’t.” (post #56) Very good. It has taken a while but we are getting closer to the truth regarding the traditions of men in Jewish...
  15. Clear

    THE CREATION OF THE TRADITION OF "ORAL LAW" IN RABBINIC JUDAISM

    Hi @rosends; REGARDING THE HISTORICAL TRADITION THAT MULTIPLE CONFLICTING MISHNAHS EXISTED I have given readers multiple examples of conflicting rules from multiple Mishnahs in the above example. Your claim is that "There is no such tradition." (Rosends, post #54). I don't think hiding your...
  16. Clear

    THE CREATION OF THE TRADITION OF "ORAL LAW" IN RABBINIC JUDAISM

    POST TWO OF TWO 4) THE RESPONSE OF THE RABBINIC DENOMINATION TO OTHER JEWISH DENOMINATIONS THAT DID NOT BELIEF IN THEIR RULES AND TRADITIONS. Under pressure from non-rabbinic Jewish denominations who questioned rabbinic traditions (e.g. the Karaite controversy), early proponents of rabbanism...
  17. Clear

    THE CREATION OF THE TRADITION OF "ORAL LAW" IN RABBINIC JUDAISM

    POST ONE OF TWO Hi @rosends Our posts are getting long. In the interest of clarity, let me go through your reponses to my points one at a time. (And I am typing between appointments at work...) 1) REGARDING THE CLAIM THAT MOSES DICTATED ORAL RULES THAT WERE PASSED DOWN BY MEMORIZATION...
  18. Clear

    THE CREATION OF THE TRADITION OF "ORAL LAW" IN RABBINIC JUDAISM

    Hi @metis and @Shaul I don't have any interest in entering into your debate but just wanted to make a single grammatical point and make clear Jesus did not support the Rabbanite sect of Jews and their religious rules. 1) REGARDING THE DESIRE TO MAKE A TEXT SUPPORT A POSITION IT DOES NOT...
  19. Clear

    THE CREATION OF THE TRADITION OF "ORAL LAW" IN RABBINIC JUDAISM

    POST THREE OF THREE Clear said : “Maimonides’ claim that the entire essential law (as practiced by the Jews of HIS age) were given to Moses in detail, partly in written form and partly in an incorruptible oral tradition are historically incoherent.” Rosends replied : “No, they are...
  20. Clear

    THE CREATION OF THE TRADITION OF "ORAL LAW" IN RABBINIC JUDAISM

    POST TWO OF THREE 5) REGARDING THE EVIDENCE AGAINST MOSES HAVING DICTATED THE VARIOUS MISHNAS Rosends said : “And when Maimonides makes his statement it is based on a continuing chain of transmission from generations before. What proof do you have that he is innovating on his own?” (post #28)...
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