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  1. Clear

    THE CREATION OF THE TRADITION OF "ORAL LAW" IN RABBINIC JUDAISM

    POST ONE OF THREE Hi @rosends 1) REGARDING THE CLAIM THAT MOSES DICTATED ORAL RULES THAT WERE PASSED DOWN BY MEMORIZATION Rosends said : “When the sages set the oral law (that had been passed down, dating back to Sinai) they were not innovating but codifying. They had already been living by...
  2. Clear

    THE CREATION OF THE TRADITION OF "ORAL LAW" IN RABBINIC JUDAISM

    1) PROBLEMS WITH AN IMPERFECT ORAL LAW OF RABBINIC JUDAISM : EXAMPLES FROM THE MISHNAH Rosends said : “You are confusing his writing down an oral tradition with “his own opinions” and your claim that certain details are not in the oral Torah is steeped in a lack of understanding about what is...
  3. Clear

    THE CREATION OF THE TRADITION OF "ORAL LAW" IN RABBINIC JUDAISM

    Hi @Shaul 1) REGARDING WHETHER THE DICTIONARIES AND SCHOLARS AND HISTORIANS ARE CORRECT IN THEIR HISTORICAL NOMENCLATURE REGARDING "RABBINIC JUDAISM" Shaul said : “Actually many of the sources you cite agree with my definition, particularly the non-Christian sources. “ (post #21) Really? How...
  4. Clear

    THE CREATION OF THE TRADITION OF "ORAL LAW" IN RABBINIC JUDAISM

    Hi Rosends 1) REGARDING “WRITTEN” TORAH (i.e. the Bible) VERSUS RULES OF THE RABBIS Rosends said : "So, again, you have supported my proof against your claim. I thank you for that. You concede that Maimonides is simply organizing text which already existed, not that he is innovating or...
  5. Clear

    THE CREATION OF THE TRADITION OF "ORAL LAW" IN RABBINIC JUDAISM

    Hi @rosends and @Shaul 1) THE HISTORICAL PROBLEM IS LACK OF HISTORICAL EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT THE CLAIM MOSES DICTATED THE TRADITIONS OF RABBINIC JUDAISM Rosends said : "Maimonides pointed to textual evidence and citation of black letter law. That it was listed years later doesn't mean that it...
  6. Clear

    THE CREATION OF THE TRADITION OF "ORAL LAW" IN RABBINIC JUDAISM

    POST TWO OF TWO REGARDING THE HISTORICAL AND SCHOLARS AND DICTIONARIES AND UNIVERSITY AND JEWISH LITERARY USE OF "RABBINIC JUDAISM" So, Shaul. If it is you against the rest of the world ("the legions", as you put it), if all of the scholars and universities and dictionaries and Jewish...
  7. Clear

    THE CREATION OF THE TRADITION OF "ORAL LAW" IN RABBINIC JUDAISM

    POST ONE OF TWO 1) REGARDING THE CLAIM THAT DICTIONARIES AND HISTORIANS AND SCHOLARS AND WORLD LITERATURE THAT USE THE TERM “RABBINIC JUDAISM” ARE ALL INCORRECT. So, do I understand you correctly? Your position is that the rest of the entire literary world with it’s historians, it’s...
  8. Clear

    THE CREATION OF THE TRADITION OF "ORAL LAW" IN RABBINIC JUDAISM

    1) REGARDING THE SCHOLARS AND HISTORIANS USE OF THE TERM "RABBINIC JUDAISM' Shaul said : I already noted that the term "rabbinic Judaism" is prevalent and that doesn't make it correct. … I also already knew how it is defined. (post #12) OK. So, if you knew how it is defined in the standard...
  9. Clear

    THE CREATION OF THE TRADITION OF "ORAL LAW" IN RABBINIC JUDAISM

    Hi @Jayhawker Soule and @Shaul 1) REGARDING THE ADVENT OF RABBINIC JUDAISM Jayhawker Soule asked who the "Jahwists" were : Clear said : “Jahwism is the name scholars apply to the ancient religion of Israel, the religion of Abraham, Moses, etc. Rabbinic Judaism is the religion that...
  10. Clear

    THE CREATION OF THE TRADITION OF "ORAL LAW" IN RABBINIC JUDAISM

    REGARDING THE ANCIENT RELIGION OF ISRAEL Hi @Jayhawker Soule Jahwism is the name scholars apply to the ancient religion of Israel, the religion of Abraham, Moses, etc. Rabbinic Judaism is the religion that ultimately was created, and was adopted by (and thus replaced) the early religions of...
  11. Clear

    THE CREATION OF THE TRADITION OF "ORAL LAW" IN RABBINIC JUDAISM

    REGARDING THE RABBINIC MYTH / LEGEND OF AN "ORAL TORAH" GIVEN TO MOSES I DO agree and I think that it would be very difficult to prove that an “oral Torah” ever existed in support of the rabbinic claims that Moses was given a vast amount of torah that was passed on orally from Generation to...
  12. Clear

    THE CREATION OF THE TRADITION OF "ORAL LAW" IN RABBINIC JUDAISM

    Hi @Jayhawker Soule Thank you for the reference. I've read the article you referred to and it is part of what piqued my interest in this specific history. Halivni, like, ito, Elman, glasner, Jaffnee, etc, Halivni (like others) tries to examine the relatively modern (post a.d.) claims that...
  13. Clear

    THE CREATION OF THE TRADITION OF "ORAL LAW" IN RABBINIC JUDAISM

    Does anyone know much about how the tradition developed regarding Rabbinic Jewish "Oral Law" as it relates to the rabbinic claim that traditions and writings created by the rabbis of rabbinic Judaism (e.g. Mishna, Talmud, etc) were an unwritten (i.e. oral) set of laws Given to Moses on Sinai at...
  14. Clear

    Do you think God is still using dreams and visions to talk to people?

    @Frank Goad asked : “Do you think God is still using dreams and visions to talk to people?” (In the O.P.) Yes. I think that authentic revelations has always characterized authentic Judeo-Christian religion in all ages of time. This does not mean that all dreams and visions are from God, it...
  15. Clear

    Why the forbidden fruit?

    POST TWO OF TWO Such early Christian texts explain that the purpose of the plan was to “share in the benefits and see and understand things”; i.e. to gain wisdom. This is the very thing Adam and Eve sought to gain FROM the tree of wisdom. If the gaining of wisdom WAS one of the things God...
  16. Clear

    Why the forbidden fruit?

    post one of two @IndigoChild5559 asked : "In the story of Adam and Eve, God forbids them to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. It seems to imply that God did not want them to know good from evil. Why would that be? And does that strike you as not wanting them to...
  17. Clear

    ‘For I, YAHWEH, do not change.’ (Malachi 3:6)

    Just a point. I agree with Oeste that Soapys points are often irrelevant, wander, and are often quite hard to follow (thus I tend to skip even reading those types of posts….). However, I just wanted to make a small point in case it matters to the debate you two are having. 1) "I change not"...
  18. Clear

    The religion you rejected - why did you reject it?

    Windwalker said : "You're using the term religion differently that I was. The OP was talking about some recognized religion you used to be a part of that you left." Clear responded "I agree that you and I are not using the same definition for religion." @Windwalker I asked Regarding your...
  19. Clear

    The religion you rejected - why did you reject it?

    Hi @Windwalker Windwalker said : "You're using the term religion differently that I was. The OP was talking about some recognized religion you used to be a part of that you left." I agree that you and I are not using the same definition for religion. To me, you seem to be using religious...
  20. Clear

    The religion you rejected - why did you reject it?

    REGARDING THE DEFINITION OF AN ATHIEST ChristineM said : "It's more a case of i have no valid evidence that there is a god, do you want to prove that wrong?" CLEAR replied : A) The strict Atheist has a belief that no God exists. The strict Agnostic does not know if a God exists or not and does...
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