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  1. Clear

    John 14:6

    Hi @Dogknox20 CONCERNING THE VARIOUS VERSIONS OF THE TRINITY OF GOD THE FATHER, THE SON, AND THE HOLY SPIRIT. Your response in post #204 is simply an ad hominem and is irrelevant to my points. For examples : Regarding : THE HARM IN MISREPRESENTATION AND THE PROBLEM WITH STRAWMEN Willing...
  2. Clear

    Where Did these Beliefs Come From?

    Hi @Deeje Just a single point. Ancient Symbols are portable and not static in their meaning. A single symbol may appear in different cultures and the meaning may differ between uses and cultures. for example, Below are the two pictures you offered for your comment that the christian cross was...
  3. Clear

    John 14:6

    I have to agree with these summaries. 1) THE HARM IN MISREPRESENTATION AND THE PROBLEM WITH STRAWMEN Willing misrepresentation does not educate anyone and offering irrelevant strawmen leaves the actual beliefs of the people it is aimed at, untouched. Another problem with misrepresentation by...
  4. Clear

    Where Did these Beliefs Come From?

    Hi @pearl and @IndigoChild5559 Just a single point. 1) THE ORIGINAL LANGUAGES OF THE EARLIEST TEXTS IS UNKNOWN I think a contextual point needs to be made regarding the LXX (septuagint) and the Masoretic. BOTH versions are JEWISH translations. The LXX was a translation made BY Jews for Greek...
  5. Clear

    Clear Challenges to the Trinity Doctrine

    Hi @tigger2 This is the answer I was looking for and I think it is a good answer. Thanks so much Tigger2 for doing the research and for your patience and for taking the time to answer these questions. Clear
  6. Clear

    Clear Challenges to the Trinity Doctrine

    Clear asked : 1)Do Jehovahs Witness theology feel that, in the beginning, Jesus was a judge, prophet, or somehow “great” or “mighty” or a divine representative of God the Father? 2)If so, can you speculate as to what attributes Jesus, as “the Word of God” had at that time that made him great or...
  7. Clear

    Clear Challenges to the Trinity Doctrine

    Hi @tigger2; Thank you for the clarification regarding your definition of “a god” in Jehovahs Witness theology. Again, I like your use of data and references but realize some of this will venture into speculation and opinion. Your quotes indicate the term “god” can be applied “by way of...
  8. Clear

    Clear Challenges to the Trinity Doctrine

    HI @tigger2 Like you, I am not a "3 is 1" trinitarian. I do believe the trinity of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost are a trinity of individuals that each have different and specific and cardinal roles in support of God's plan for mankind. However I am interested in how the concepts...
  9. Clear

    Clear Challenges to the Trinity Doctrine

    Hi @YoursTrue While I agree with the translator of your bible that αρσενοκοιτη in 1 Cor 6, refers to sex with a male and by association, was used as a term for homosexual sex, (e.g. sodomy), to the early Christians who spoke koine, I am curious why this issue was important in this thread. Can...
  10. Clear

    Clear Challenges to the Trinity Doctrine

    Hi @Jeremiah Ames (and @Hockeycowboy) Hi @Jeremiah Ames (and @Hockeycowboy) I hate to disrupt @tigger2s thread because I think his points are very interesting but I also think your point about the principle of degree of knowledge and understanding inherent in moral judgement is a profound...
  11. Clear

    Clear Challenges to the Trinity Doctrine

    Hi @Jeremiah Ames and @Hockeycowboy I agree with Jeremiah regarding Hockeycowboys point regarding the hypocrite. I also think that the hypocrite that has greater moral knowledge and understanding has greater responsibility to act according to that greater light and knowledge and understanding...
  12. Clear

    Clear Challenges to the Trinity Doctrine

    Hi @YoursTrue and @sojourner 1 )REGARDING THE CLAIM THAT THE ANCIENT CHRISTIANS "HAD NO CONCEPT" OF SEXUAL ORIENTATION Sojourner claimed : "...the ancients who wrote the texts had no concept of sexual orientation..." I will consider this claim debunked due to the many examples from post #70...
  13. Clear

    Clear Challenges to the Trinity Doctrine

    Hi @sojourner (and @YoursTrue) REGARDING THE CLAIM THAT THE ANCIENT CHRISTIANS "HAD NO CONCEPT" OF SEXUAL ORIENTATION Sojourner claimed : "...the ancients who wrote the texts had no concept of sexual orientation..." The claim that the Christians in this biblical era "had no concept of sexual...
  14. Clear

    Clear Challenges to the Trinity Doctrine

    Clear said : " REGARDING THE CLAIM THAT THE ANCIENT CHRISTIANS "HAD NO CONCEPT" OF SEXUAL ORIENTATION Sojourner claimed : "...the ancients who wrote the texts had no concept of sexual orientation..." The claim that the Christians in this biblical era "had no concept of sexual orientation" is a...
  15. Clear

    Clear Challenges to the Trinity Doctrine

    Hi @sojourner (and @YoursTrue) REGARDING THE CLAIM THAT THE ANCIENT CHRISTIANS "HAD NO CONCEPT" OF SEXUAL ORIENTATION Sojourner claimed : "...the ancients who wrote the texts had no concept of sexual orientation..." The claim that the Christians in this biblical era "had no concept of sexual...
  16. Clear

    Clear Challenges to the Trinity Doctrine

    Hi @sojourner and @YoursTrue YoursTrue said : “… sins like adultery, homosexuality, stealing, murder and so forth..." Sojourner replied : “If you’d really read the Bible enough to know what’s in it, you’d know that homosexuality isn’t mentioned — sin or otherwise.” (post #38) YourTrue gave...
  17. Clear

    Watchtower: Jesus is not "a god"!

    POST THREE OF THREE 10) Oeste offered : “Moses naming the same εἰκών, to shew ὅτι ἀρχέτυπον μὲν φύσεως λογικῆς ὁ θεός ἐστι, μίμημα δὲ καὶ ἀπεικόνισμα ἄνθρωπος: De Plant. Noë, § 5 (p. 332), he says, Moses named the rational soul τοῦ θείου καὶ ἀοράτου εἰκόνα, δόκιμον εἶναι νομίσας οὐσιωθεῖσαν κ...
  18. Clear

    Watchtower: Jesus is not "a god"!

    POST TWO OF THREE 2) Oeste offered : a) “and impress (“figura,” vulg.: “figure,” Wiclif and Rheims: “very image,” Tyndal and Cranmer: “ingraved forme,” Geneva: “express image,” E. V. The word χαρακτήρ, which by formation would be the stamp or die itself on which a device χαράσσεται, and which...
  19. Clear

    Watchtower: Jesus is not "a god"!

    POST ONE OF THREE Hi @tigger2 and @Oeste 1) REGARDING THE GREEK USE OF THE GREEK ARTICLE IN ANCIENT GREEK @tigger2 said : “Here are all the constructions in John's writings that are actually parallel to the construction of John 1:1c. H.....1. John 4:9 (a) - indefinite ("a Jew") - all...
  20. Clear

    Watchtower: Jesus is not "a god"!

    POST TWO OF TWO 5) Oeste offered : “Hence the word is taken, 1. generally for any fixed and sharply marked lineaments, material or spiritual, by which a person or an object may be recognized and distinguished. Herod. i. 116, ὁ χ. τοῦ προσώπου. Diod. Sic. i. 82, τοὺς τῆς ὄψεως χαρακτῆρας, the...
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