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  1. Spockrates

    Wondering About Forgiveness

    Yes, I think I understand. Thanks. [emoji4]
  2. Spockrates

    Wondering About Forgiveness

    Thanks for contributing to the conversation Crossfire and I are having. You have explained what forgiveness is for, but what you think forgiveness is, I'm not quite sure. Please tell me briefly, in a sentence or two: What is forgiveness?
  3. Spockrates

    Wondering About Forgiveness

    Thank you. So forgiveness, like murder, lust and generosity, is an action. Yes, I can see that. But what is the cause of this action? We know the thought of hatred sometimes causes murder, the thought of compassion sometimes causes generosity, the thought of lust sometimes causes adultery. So...
  4. Spockrates

    Wondering About Forgiveness

    Thank you, but I'd like to finish our conversation, first, if that is OK. I think we're near the point of a reaching a conclusion about forgiveness.
  5. Spockrates

    Wondering About Forgiveness

    I think we've pretty much laid the groundwork for comparing forgiveness. Let me know if you are still of the opinion that it is a thought.
  6. Spockrates

    Wondering About Forgiveness

    I'd agree. What l'd like to know is if you agree with me that each of the thoughts we mention not only have corresponding actions, but also have corresponding emotions and desires. Or do you think the truth might be that these thoughts are such emotions and desires? For example, could it be...
  7. Spockrates

    Wondering About Forgiveness

    Agreed. So then this compassion I might recognize in myself has corresponding emotions and desires, such as an emotion of empathy and a desire to meet some need of the one with whom I empathize. I suppose we might say the same of hatred, that is, that this thought I have also has corresponding...
  8. Spockrates

    Wondering About Forgiveness

    In all these cases there is a thought, which causes a corresponding action. Genuinely hateful acts are caused by hate, genuinely lustful acts are caused by lust, genuinely compassion acts can be caused by compassion, though you would add we cannot be sure. I guess I wonder why you're unsure. I...
  9. Spockrates

    Wondering About Forgiveness

    Sorry for the delay in answering. Went offline. At least we are of the opinion compassion is a thought, not an action. What you say about compassion not necessarily being the cause of generosity rings true to me. Reminds me of the account in the Bible where a crowd was greatly impressed by the...
  10. Spockrates

    Wondering About Forgiveness

    Agreed.
  11. Spockrates

    Wondering About Forgiveness

    What then shall we say of this compassion? Is there any good virtuous action impossible for it to cause? Or is any good thing we might do possibly caused by the compassion we plug ourselves into?
  12. Spockrates

    Wondering About Forgiveness

    Understood. Interesting that Christians say something similar, but they say this compassion they plug into or abstain from plugging into is a being they call God. They even quote one of the biblical authors who repeats the phrase, "God is love." It's a phrase I've found to be beyond...
  13. Spockrates

    Wondering About Forgiveness

    Please overlook my ignorance. Maybe you are saying there are two compassions? One that is immeasurable, which is not our own nor under our control, and one that is finite, which is our own and under our control?
  14. Spockrates

    Wondering About Forgiveness

    Understood. Would it be more accurate to say we cannot understand the nature of the immeasurable compassion, but we can understand that somehow and sometimes this immeasurable is a cause--but not always the cause--of such virtuous actions as generosity, gentleness, kindness and the like? Or am I...
  15. Spockrates

    Wondering About Forgiveness

    Are you saying there is nothing you are sure is ever, under any circumstances caused by compassion? Or are you instead saying compassion might sometimes be the cause of some good action, but one can't be sure that something else, such as guilt isn't the cause?
  16. Spockrates

    Wondering About Forgiveness

    LOL! Fixed the typo. Lust is a cause, not a curse. [emoji4]
  17. Spockrates

    Wondering About Forgiveness

    Agreed. Compassion is a cause, but not necessarily the only one. So as hatred is a cause of murder and lust is a cause of adultery, so compassion is a cause of generosity. Where hatred, lust and compassion are the thoughts, but not the actions; and murder, adultery and generosity are the...
  18. Spockrates

    Wondering About Forgiveness

    Also, regarding a different topic, I find it interesting that each of the immeasurables is included in this passage of Christian scripture: "But the fruit of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control..." (Galatians 5:22-23) Perhaps...
  19. Spockrates

    Wondering About Forgiveness

    I was going to say I think compassion is a cause of generosity. How about you?
  20. Spockrates

    Wondering About Forgiveness

    Perhaps it will help to consider the thought that is a cause of other virtues? I have some more examples, which I think might all be caused by this same thought, if you're interested in considering one or more of them.
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