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  1. P

    Paul was not a Roman Citizen.

    I've been mulling it over, and I think I better evacuate this argument with the utmost urgency. It isn't that I have been won over to your point of view; it is my own utter impotence to construct an argument that could win you guys over to my side. But, my side is chaotic mush. I know what...
  2. P

    Paul was not a Roman Citizen.

    Yes, yes. Almost exactly the same quotes were included in the article. Strawhorse alert! When did I ever "label them as a sepcific group who identified themselves as such"? I didn't say they "represent[ed] a religious sect," but I do assert that the people Jospehus calls Sicarii had...
  3. P

    Paul was not a Roman Citizen.

    I think you exaggerate. Not being an expert, I'm sure that my statements are misleading or inaccurate in some ways, but on "almost every point"? First of all, I can agree in the abstract that there is some distinction between outright bandits and religiously motivated revolutionaries. But, in...
  4. P

    Paul was not a Roman Citizen.

    This makes sense. I'm not saying that I agree with it, but at least I can make sense of the criticism: Jesus is important now, but is he important enough at the time to come to the attention of Josephus? I can't guess the popularity of this movement, and I would expect this to be exactly...
  5. P

    Paul was not a Roman Citizen.

    The Gibbon thing has always been a distraction. But I can't be solely blamed for feeding into this tangent. For every defense of Gibbon I have mounted, there was another attack forthcoming. It takes two to argue. I should have dropped the Gibbon defense a long time ago, as soon as it was...
  6. P

    Paul was not a Roman Citizen.

    You've done what, picked through the tiny fragments, or gone slowly insane while you did it? You have me an disadvantage here. The comments you are responding to were deleted shortly after I posted them. I thought they were too tendentious, unsupported by sound arguments, and motivated by a...
  7. P

    Paul was not a Roman Citizen.

    The problem with Paul's biography is that it comes from Paul. This is the definition of a tendentiousness source. The interpretation of Acts seems even more difficult: how are you going to pick out the little deposits of fact from that confusing mass of mythical and polemical fantasy, without...
  8. P

    Paul was not a Roman Citizen.

    Hold on here (nice shooting, Tex). I'm not doubting that there was a historical Paul. There was definitely a Paul. All I'm saying is that we wouldn't know hardly a single biographical detail about him, if not for his own letters, and Acts. And we can all agree that these are highly...
  9. P

    Paul was not a Roman Citizen.

    academic, scholar, expert Thank you for these quotes, sir. I sense there is a criticism of my own position implied, but I can not draw it out explicitly. In fact, the quote seems to support my position more. Most bourgeoisie did not have access to the "personal wealth" necessary to...
  10. P

    Paul was not a Roman Citizen.

    This rebuke is not just. Where is my error? I was not aware that it was controversial to assert that literacy rates were higher in 1776 than in 1376. Perhaps my proposition is true, but for the wrong reasons (it is defended by faulty arguments)? Printing and vernacular literature do not lead...
  11. P

    Paul was not a Roman Citizen.

    So you disagree that literacy rates were higher in 1776 than in the middle ages? Are you willing to accept anything that you weren't told to believe in by the "scholarly consensus"? What about plain common sense, and the simple facts of history that are known to everyone: the printing press...
  12. P

    Paul was not a Roman Citizen.

    Yes and no. Literacy rates were much lower in 1776, and so my use of the term "general public," to describe Gibbon's audience, is much too broad. But you make the same mistake in the opposite direction, with your phrase, "academic elite," which is much too narrow. As low as the literacy rate...
  13. P

    Paul was not a Roman Citizen.

    Okay. To understand Paul's ideology (more Roman than Jewish), it is necessary, besides his own writings, to look at the Gospels. The Gospels were not written by Paul, but they were conceived under the influence of his ideology. Hence, Jesus is conceived to be a friend to tax-collectors and...
  14. P

    Paul was not a Roman Citizen.

    The peer-review process may be perfect for its own unique but limited purposes. Through this process, the experts and scholars are able to gauge and refine their theories, by dialogue and argument within their own community, in their own special language. The particular and complex idiom they...
  15. P

    Paul was not a Roman Citizen.

    It is not willful ignorance, I assure you. I envy the detailed knowledge of a serious scholar. Do you think I prefer to read Josephus or Paul in English, and be totally at the mercy of the translator? But, at my age, I have to admit that I am never going to learn ancient Greek, or even Latin...
  16. P

    Paul was not a Roman Citizen.

    See what I'm talking about? This book is reliable. Especially to someone like me, who possesses no expert knowledge, it gives a certain intellectual grounding in the era. I can almost talk to someone who is an expert, or at least understand some of what they are saying. Also, I don't have to...
  17. P

    Paul was not a Roman Citizen.

    Please take note of the part I have put in boldface and underlined, which you ignored completely. Sure, Constantine strengthened the borderer troops, but he weakened the palentine troops. If given a choice, I would rather put my faith in the palentines. The borderers sound like mercenary...
  18. P

    Paul was not a Roman Citizen.

    All I wanted to do was give Eisenman theories a "test run." He speaks directly to this question of Paul's citizenship status. Immediately, I was countered by what seemed to be substantive criticisms. These criticisms were phrased in such a way that they appeared to come from people with some...
  19. P

    Paul was not a Roman Citizen.

    How many times must I be told that this book is from 1776?
  20. P

    Paul was not a Roman Citizen.

    Except Gibbon. He, of course, can be easily dismissed, without effort, without thought, for this easy reason... wait, there is no real reason. I'm sorry, but I'm not going to dismiss an obvious authority like Gibbon unless I can be given a real reason to do so. No, sir, you did not. I am...
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