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  1. EconGuy

    Atheists: does God exist?

    It would seem that way. We should probably tackle this first.... Morals and ethics both attempt to distinguish good from bad or unacceptable behavior. Morals are general principles codifying widely accepted values of the community; they are dependent on and maintained through public approval...
  2. EconGuy

    Atheists: does God exist?

    As in, you recognize moral distinctions, but don't believe there is solid reasons to act on them? Do you believe that moral systems are rooted in human emotions, needs, and social constructs, and therefore have no inherent validity beyond the human realm? Do you think there is an objective...
  3. EconGuy

    Atheists: does God exist?

    We agree that our experiences are subjective and may not be exactly the same. So we need flexibility in our rules. However, do we really need to quantify suffering in order to know a person is suffering? Even for people who are causing themselves objective harm while experiencing pleasure. If...
  4. EconGuy

    Atheists: does God exist?

    Take the question of what is better, vanilla or chocolate ice cream. That is a question that is about as opinionated as there is. The question of what is valued here, chocolate or vanilla is very different depending on who you ask, and rightly so. But what if the choice were between chocolate...
  5. EconGuy

    Atheists: does God exist?

    Respectfully, you missed my point (or I did a poor job explaining), but the point was, it's not the law that makes something right or wrong, the law is an expression of a human value system. Values--->Morality--->Right/laws, in this order. Where do systems of measurement come from? We create...
  6. EconGuy

    Atheists: does God exist?

    I said: "Culture is what makes pre-marital sex immoral?" Your answer is above. That's like saying the law is what makes stealing immoral. I'd argue that people of different cultures can share the same morals because morals are based on values that people across culture can share. It's just...
  7. EconGuy

    Atheists: does God exist?

    So two people the day before they are to be married see meat, but after they are married they see each other? I'm sorry, but that's more silly religious dogma. As I said, objectification and a loving relationship can both happen in or out of marriage.
  8. EconGuy

    Atheists: does God exist?

    Culture is what makes pre-marital sex immoral? That, of course is horrible, but I'm not sure what it has to do with the discussion I was having. Again, truly horrible, but I'm not sure why you've posted this? Not where I live.
  9. EconGuy

    Atheists: does God exist?

    So we can make for easy reading.... I asked the question, "why is pre-marital sex immoral", and your reply is above. My response: Why is objectification or lust immoral? What about it? What's the harm? Please don't take my questions above as approval of objectifying others, merely, I want...
  10. EconGuy

    Atheists: does God exist?

    I'm curious, what is it about this act that you believe is morally wrong?
  11. EconGuy

    Atheists: does God exist?

    Irony alert. A boast of profound hubris. But even if it's true, so what? These things are related. No one has claimed that but you. Another strawman. No sillier than you making an argument that literally no one ever, has made.
  12. EconGuy

    Atheists: does God exist?

    And yet, you've failed on several occasions to explain the acts taken by the Christian god in the Bible that violate the very principles you claim to hold so dear. And before you make the argument that an act is wrong when you or I do it, but ok when a god does it, try to remember the...
  13. EconGuy

    Atheists: does God exist?

    This is one of the worst arguments I've ever heard. But, take comfort you aren't the first to make this ridiculous argument. There are so many flaws in this argument it's hard to know where to begin and I could write several passages pointing out how dumb this statement is if I thought you'd...
  14. EconGuy

    Atheists: does God exist?

    For my part... I've not seen enough verifiable evidence that would convince me that the gods named in an of the religious traditions in this world have an effect on this reality. That's the only question? I think what's important is that we have a method of determining what we call true (not...
  15. EconGuy

    Atheists: does God exist?

    Why?
  16. EconGuy

    Atheists: does God exist?

    I can dismantle that claim by simply asking the question: Why?
  17. EconGuy

    Atheists: does God exist?

    If you don't mind me jumping in here...Here's is me playing devils advocate... Abstract concepts (like justice, beauty, or love) derive their meaning from their internal definitions and the relationships between their constituent parts. For example, the abstract concept of "justice" implies...
  18. EconGuy

    Atheists: does God exist?

    Do I detect a bit of Rand's Objectivism? Hmmm?
  19. EconGuy

    Atheists: does God exist?

    Dam, well said. Bravo.:clapping:
  20. EconGuy

    Atheists: does God exist?

    I guess you've decided to move on? No, but it is pragmatic. That is, if we are interested in things that are universal, or nearly universal in the realm of morality, its the idea that the vast majority of us want to be free of suffering and misery, period full stop. Everything else, can be...
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