“The Koran Is Borrowed”: Hitchens claim; refuted.

[McBell]

The similarity of basic teachings in all great revealed religions only shows that originally they are from the same one source; from the one true attributive creator God;

Except that it has not been shown outside the wishful thinking of the choir that there even is a creator god...

it does not show that anyone of them has borrowed anything from others.

Actually, yes it does.

Hitchens did a cheap thing to highlight it, in my opinion.

So what makes your opinion so much better than Hitchens opinion?

 

[McBell]

Index “God is not great”: page 312, edition “TWELVE”: under word “Koran”.
Quote:
“Koran, 46, 55, 123–37, 151, 181, 188, 227, 252
alleged satanic verses of, 134, 136
and destructiveness of religion, 23,26, 29, 33
on eating pork, 37–38
language of, 12–13, 124–26, 129, 131,137
Mormons and, 161, 164
revelations and, 98, 128–29, 134–35,161
on tolerance of other religions, 133–34
transcription and compilation of,130–32
and words and deeds of Muhammad, 127–31”
We take the entry mentioned as pages 123–37 from the index.

“The Koran Is Borrowed from Both Jewish and Christian Myths” Hitchens claims.

Hitchens failed to quote a passage/s or page/s or a chapter/s or surah/s from Quran and then to quote a passage/s or page/s or a chapter/s from NT Bible or OT Bible that Quran has borrowed from them.

Due to his casual reading of Quran, Hitchens wrote such words rather a whole chapter from pages 123–37 based on hearsay.

Chapter Nine - “The Koran Is Borrowed from Both Jewish and Christian Myths”: “God is not great”.

Where Hitchens failed; yet there could be some of his fans who could come up to quote a passage/s or page/s or a chapter/s or surah/s from Quran and then to quote a passage/s or page/s or a chapter/s from NT Bible or OT Bible that Quran has borrowed from them.

Except that you have not refuted the fact that the Koran borrows from the Bible...

 

[England my lionheart]

Index “God is not great”: page 312, edition “TWELVE”: under word “Koran”.
Quote:
“Koran, 46, 55, 123–37, 151, 181, 188, 227, 252
alleged satanic verses of, 134, 136
and destructiveness of religion, 23,26, 29, 33
on eating pork, 37–38
language of, 12–13, 124–26, 129, 131,137
Mormons and, 161, 164
revelations and, 98, 128–29, 134–35,161
on tolerance of other religions, 133–34
transcription and compilation of,130–32
and words and deeds of Muhammad, 127–31”
We take the entry mentioned as pages 123–37 from the index.

“The Koran Is Borrowed from Both Jewish and Christian Myths” Hitchens claims.

Hitchens failed to quote a passage/s or page/s or a chapter/s or surah/s from Quran and then to quote a passage/s or page/s or a chapter/s from NT Bible or OT Bible that Quran has borrowed from them.

Due to his casual reading of Quran, Hitchens wrote such words rather a whole chapter from pages 123–37 based on hearsay.

Chapter Nine - “The Koran Is Borrowed from Both Jewish and Christian Myths”: “God is not great”.

Where Hitchens failed; yet there could be some of his fans who could come up to quote a passage/s or page/s or a chapter/s or surah/s from Quran and then to quote a passage/s or page/s or a chapter/s from NT Bible or OT Bible that Quran has borrowed from them.

Personally after reading the Qur'an i don't think you need Hitchens to suspect that Muhammed plagiarised the OT and NT to be the author of the Qur'an,just as Xtians with the OT,i would guess Humans have been borrowing from earlier religions and cultures for thousand of years.

 

[Bismillah]

1. Borrowed from whom? If we take Christian or Judaic theology principles at face value they stem from the divine and if Islam also contains these facets then it stands to reason they may also have stemmed from the divine.

2. Muslims don't deny that certain points of their theology is similar to or particulars are identical to the other Abrahamic faiths, that is part of the reason why it is considered an Abrahamic religion. But that does not detract from or implicate the Qur'an as one the most basic theological principles often differ and the accounts and narrations themselves differ wildly as well. The accounts within the Qur'an are taken as historic parables to instruct man throughout time rather than constraining him to one certain time period.

3. If looking at the basic structure of the Qur'an and its purpose as compared to say the Bible there are striking differences regarding their principles objectives and structure. The most obvious being that the Bible is considered divinely inspired whereas in the Qur'an it is the verbatim word of Allah. Also significantly the Bible often is an account or biography of Jesus, blessings be upon him, whereas the Qur'an is hardly constrained with the life of the Prophet and even mention of his name is kept at a minimum (as both Jesus and Moses, blessings be upon them both, are referenced a great number more times)

And finally it is odd you get these accusations of "plagarism" or "copying" when it is acknowledged that yes certain parts of previous scripture is considered divine and thus within the Qur'an but as a whole is regarded as unreliable. These types of phrases serve only thinly veiled attempts to disrepute and slander the Qur'an while lacking any solid basis to do so.

 

[paarsurrey]

Except that it has not been shown outside the wishful thinking of the choir that there even is a creator god...


Actually, yes it does.


So what makes your opinion so much better than Hitchens opinion?

Hitchens named a full chapter on this; but could prove nothing. Please read the OP.

 

[McBell]

Hitchens named a full chapter on this; but could prove nothing. Please read the OP.

It looks as though no one can prove anything to you that you refuse to accept.
So again: What makes your opinion so much better than Hitchins opinion?

 

[Bismillah]

There is nothing wrong insofar as stating that certain points of theology are similar within the Abrahamic religion, where Hitchens is wrong and is when he tries to use that fact to undermine the Qur'an.

 

[paarsurrey]

It looks as though no one can prove anything to you that you refuse to accept.
So again: What makes your opinion so much better than Hitchins opinion?

I quote a chapter from Quran:

[112:1] In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful.
[112:2] Say, ‘He is Allah, the One;
[112:3] ‘Allah, the Independent and Besought of all.
[112:4] ‘He begets not, nor is He begotten;
[112:5] ‘And there is none like unto Him.’

The Holy Quran Arabic text with Translation in English text and Search Engine - Al Islam Online

Please quote the chapters in the NT Bible or OT Bible where these teachings have been plagiarized from.

Can one? To substantiate one's viewpoint that Quran plagiarizes from Christianity and or Judaism.

 

[McBell]

I quote a chapter from Quran:

[112:1] In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful.
[112:2] Say, ‘He is Allah, the One;
[112:3] ‘Allah, the Independent and Besought of all.
[112:4] ‘He begets not, nor is He begotten;
[112:5] ‘And there is none like unto Him.’

The Holy Quran Arabic text with Translation in English text and Search Engine - Al Islam Online

Please quote the chapters in the NT Bible or OT Bible where these teachings have been plagiarized from.

Can one? To substantiate one's viewpoint that Quran plagiarizes from Christianity and or Judaism.

How about you just answer the question?
What makes your opinion so much better than Hitchins opinion?

Are you claiming that merely tossing out some quotes from the Koran makes your opinion better than Hitchens opinion?

Is it a "the one who quotes the most of the Koran is the one who has to be right" argument?

 

[paarsurrey]

How about you just answer the question?
What makes your opinion so much better than Hitchins opinion?

Are you claiming that merely tossing out some quotes from the Koran makes your opinion better than Hitchens opinion?

Is it a "the one who quotes the most of the Koran is the one who has to be right" argument?

Please read the OP; Hitchens could not prove his point of view in the whole of the chapter in his book; if he could not deal with the subject, he should have not touched it. I may mention scores of the verses/chapter in Quran which cannot be proved to have been copied from Bible, in my opinion.

 

[McBell]

Please read the OP; Hitchens could not prove his point of view in the whole of the chapter in his book; if he could not deal with the subject, he should have not touched it. I may mention scores of the verses/chapter in Quran which cannot be proved to have been copied from Bible, in my opinion.

Why are you ignoring the things that are borrowed from the Bible?
things like Mary and Jesus?

You have not refuted Hitchens in any way.

You are merely ignoring the borrowed parts in a slopppy attempt at diverting attention from them.

 

[England my lionheart]

1. Borrowed from whom? If we take Christian or Judaic theology principles at face value they stem from the divine and if Islam also contains these facets then it stands to reason they may also have stemmed from the divine.

Borrowed from earlier religions and cultures like ancient Egypt and the principles of Ma'at or Moses echoing Sargon the great.

2. Muslims don't deny that certain points of their theology is similar to or particulars are identical to the other Abrahamic faiths, that is part of the reason why it is considered an Abrahamic religion. But that does not detract from or implicate the Qur'an as one the most basic theological principles often differ and the accounts and narrations themselves differ wildly as well. The accounts within the Qur'an are taken as historic parables to instruct man throughout time rather than constraining him to one certain time period.

I agree,Muslims do not deny the similarities and will even point this out readily.


3. If looking at the basic structure of the Qur'an and its purpose as compared to say the Bible there are striking differences regarding their principles objectives and structure. The most obvious being that the Bible is considered divinely inspired whereas in the Qur'an it is the verbatim word of Allah. Also significantly the Bible often is an account or biography of Jesus, blessings be upon him, whereas the Qur'an is hardly constrained with the life of the Prophet and even mention of his name is kept at a minimum (as both Jesus and Moses, blessings be upon them both, are referenced a great number more times)

This is just my opinion,the crux of the matter lays here,the divinely inspired and the revealed word of God both use the same medium,Human.

And finally it is odd you get these accusations of "plagarism" or "copying" when it is acknowledged that yes certain parts of previous scripture is considered divine and thus within the Qur'an but as a whole is regarded as unreliable. These types of phrases serve only thinly veiled attempts to disrepute and slander the Qur'an while lacking any solid basis to do so.

This would be true if i believed in the God of Abraham,i don't,so any similarities between Judaism and the later religions leaves me with the conclusion of copying as does ancient history,i don't see a God at work here,just Humans working out God for their benefit,just my opinion though.

 

[paarsurrey]

Why are you ignoring the things that are borrowed from the Bible?
things like Mary and Jesus?

You have not refuted Hitchens in any way.

You are merely ignoring the borrowed parts in a slopppy attempt at diverting attention from them.

Mary and Jesus were real persons; why Bible borrowed them from real life?

 

[waitasec]

Mary and Jesus were real persons; why Bible borrowed them from real life?

"There is no need to overstate the difficulty of understanding Islam's alleged profundities. If one comprehends the fallacies of any "revealed" religion, one comprehends them all."
~chritopher hitchens...god is not great

 

[paarsurrey]

"There is no need to overstate the difficulty of understanding Islam's alleged profundities. If one comprehends the fallacies of any "revealed" religion, one comprehends them all."
~chritopher hitchens...god is not great

Hitchens is wrong; he could not prove.
Quran mentions Issa and Maryam, the real persons; not Jesus and Mary; so Quran has borrowed nothing from Christianity.

 

[waitasec]

Hitchens is wrong; he could not prove.
Quran mentions Issa and Maryam, the real persons; not Jesus and Mary; so Quran has borrowed nothing from Christianity.

he did prove it...
it's just one erroneous claim on top of another...
look at the mess it's caused. the proof is in the pudding

 

[paarsurrey]

"There is no need to overstate the difficulty of understanding Islam's alleged profundities. If one comprehends the fallacies of any "revealed" religion, one comprehends them all."
~chritopher hitchens...god is not great

It is a very poor generalization of Hitchens; neither science supports it nor religion.

 

[waitasec]

faith is a baseless claim...a claim that cannot be verified.
science supports that

 

[love]

[

quote=Bismillah;3046772]1. Borrowed from whom? If we take Christian or Judaic theology principles at face value they stem from the divine and if Islam also contains these facets then it stands to reason they may also have stemmed from the divine.

2. Muslims don't deny that certain points of their theology is similar to or particulars are identical to the other Abrahamic faiths, that is part of the reason why it is considered an Abrahamic religion. But that does not detract from or implicate the Qur'an as one the most basic theological principles often differ and the accounts and narrations themselves differ wildly as well. The accounts within the Qur'an are taken as historic parables to instruct man throughout time rather than constraining him to one certain time period.

3. If looking at the basic structure of the Qur'an and its purpose as compared to say the Bible there are striking differences regarding their principles objectives and structure. The most obvious being that the Bible is considered divinely inspired whereas in the Qur'an it is the verbatim word of Allah. Also significantly the Bible often is an account or biography of Jesus, blessings be upon him, whereas the Qur'an is hardly constrained with the life of the Prophet and even mention of his name is kept at a minimum (as both Jesus and Moses, blessings be upon them both, are referenced a great number more times)

And finally it is odd you get these accusations of "plagarism" or "copying" when it is acknowledged that yes certain parts of previous scripture is considered divine and thus within the Qur'an but as a whole is regarded as unreliable. These types of phrases serve only thinly veiled attempts to disrepute and slander the Qur'an while lacking any solid basis to do so.

[/QUOTE]I don't see where anything in the Koran ws borrowed from Christianity other than the name of Christ.
Christ is elevated in the Koran to be a serious mesenger, but many Muslims feel restricted to seek His message only in the Koran.

2.Of all the so called Abrahamic faiths, only Islam seems to be struck in a time that has long sinced past.

3. The Bible tells us it is a divinely inspired teaching through the mouth's of centuries of prophets.
The Koran tells us that the verbtim words of the Almighty Creator pasted only through the lips of Mohammed and can not pass this way again until the end of time.

And finally, what tells you what is reliable or not. Is it best to discredit the entire history than to take the chance of getting it wrong?
I believe that the Koran offers enough reasons for Muslims to explore the Bible if they have the opportunity. It is certainly a credit to Mohammed that he talked God down from prayer fifty times a day to five times a day.

We all have a chance at life or we would'nt be here. We would'nt exist.
Many, many diverse people on this planet follow their heart each day not worrying about what their Creator thinks but knowing they are doing the right thing and they have peace in their heart even though the have never heard of Abraham.

 

[al-amiyr]

The Qur'aan (Koran) is a confirmation and an explanation of previous revelation. That is what the Qur'aan says. Nowhere in the Qur'aan does one find any condemnation of any scripture of any prophet.
Therefore one will find many stories in the Qur'aan that are found in the different books of the Bible. I hold the Torah and the Gospel dearly as well as all the books that are between them. That is the teaching of the Qur'aan.