‘Jesus was WITH GOD’ therefore Jesus WAS GOD?

[YoursTrue]

I appreciate what you're saying. I'm not sure how seriously I should take the book of Acts. Is it really word-for-word accurate of precisely what was said? I don't know. And since Jesus was known to speak in grand terms sometimes, comments like "I have been given all authority..." or "none get to the father except through me", I just don't make a big deal about those. He said "all authority", but really-really all authority? I don't know. And that doesn't subvert God anyway. And when he said "none get to the father except through me" did he really-really mean none? I don't know.

Once a person starts preaching in exaggerations, it's difficult for me to take it seriously. Good ideas are good ideas, of course. But taking it as literal word-for-word truth? if it somehow undermines other prophets or God itself? I just count that as hyperbole.

I understand, which is why I stick with the understanding of that which I respect and appreciate. Not everyone will accept these things. Obviously. Just like some argued with Moses and other prophets. Didn't help them. Many were killed by the Romans because they did not get out of Jerusalem fast enough, we shall see how it goes.

 

[YoursTrue]

LOL, he said Amen when he spoke about moving mountains. He swore to heaven that anyone would be able to move mountains if they believed. If it's not hyperbole then he's a liar and gave an unholy oath. Which is it? Hyperbole or liar?

View attachment 76733

Here's John.

Amen, Amen, he swears to heaven and earth. Is this another unholy oath, or was he just exaggerating for effect?

View attachment 76734

This is, of course typical for you. You don't know the original language. You don't know what it means.

Of course it's hyperbole. Otherwise he is advocating something which is absolutely prohibited.

Your own scripture says do not eat blood in Acts.

View attachment 76735

Wake - up 101G. Your savior spoke in hyperbole, and that means he exaggerated. He exaggerated about himself, right there in John. he exagerateed about others, he exaggerated about himself. He's a big talker.

P.S. you gotta pick your fights.

 

[Soapy]

you been caught in a ERROR, better known as a LIE. no angel created any human body, only God. now, if an angel created a human body, post book chapter, and verse to this effect. 101G will be looking for that scripture.

now as for the we, and the our in Genesis 1:26, this is God speaking of himself, (with himself), that is to come in the ECHAD as Last. there is only ONE PERSON PRESENT at Genesis 1:26.

the US and the Our is the ECHAD of, of, of, God that was to come.

101G.

• “if an angel created a human body, post book chapter, and verse to this effect.”

How did the fallen angels procreate with the daughters of men?

What these angels did resulted in the creation of the Nephilim. It takes a body to body contact to do that since the demon angels cannot put a spirit into a body, they put themselves into those bodies and because angels are more powerful than mankind, their offspring were more powerful than humankind… but because they were demons they were LESS INTELLIGENT.

Once again you show yourself as an opposer - your only purpose in this forum is to oppose the truth of scriptures and try to mock and make fun of those who are trying to find truth and reality of scriptures.

Your first step in telling the truth is to stop calling Jesus, ‘God’, as in Almighty God, the Father:YHWH.

 

[101G]

LOL, he said Amen when he spoke about moving mountains. He swore to heaven that anyone would be able to move mountains if they believed. If it's not hyperbole then he's a liar and gave an unholy oath. Which is it? Hyperbole or liar?

View attachment 76733

Here's John.

Amen, Amen, he swears to heaven and earth. Is this another unholy oath, or was he just exaggerating for effect?

View attachment 76734

This is, of course typical for you. You don't know the original language. You don't know what it means.

Of course it's hyperbole. Otherwise he is advocating something which is absolutely prohibited.

Your own scripture says do not eat blood in Acts.

View attachment 76735

Wake - up 101G. Your savior spoke in hyperbole, and that means he exaggerated. He exaggerated about himself, right there in John. he exagerateed about others, he exaggerated about himself. He's a big talker.

he also said the dead will be raised, and was, sick mhealed and was, lame walk and was.

and as for moving MOUNTIANNS many has been moved.

now your OT Jeremiah 17:10 "I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings."
Reins here is, kidney
H3629 כִּליָה kilyah (kil-yaw') n-f.
1. a kidney (as an essential organ).
2. (figuratively) the mind (as the interior self).
3. (thus) the reins of a bridle.
4. (by analogy) self-control, self-restraint (referring to character [good or lacking], and thus, moral strength).
5. (of ancient times, and modern Orient) kidneys are considered the seat of the feelings and passions, the inward impulses.
6. (together with the heart) combined, they denotes the moral composition of man.
[feminine of H3627 (only in the plural)]
KJV: kidneys, reins.
Root(s): H3627

Psalms 65:13 "The pastures are clothed with flocks; the valleys also are covered over with corn; they shout for joy, they also sing." WHAT? ..... (smile).


Isaiah 1:18 "Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool." sin is spiritual, but the snow as white is Physical, as with wool.


if you cannot understand figurative language as well as metaphoric speech then you are doomed because of your IGNORANCE of the Word of God...... (smile). .... LOL, LOL, LOL, Oh dear. now........ SLAP!.... wake up..... little brother and smell the coffee of the TRUTH. (smile)

101G

 

[101G]

How did the fallen angels procreate with the daughters of men?

they never did. ....lol, lol, lol,,, Oh my, my, my,,,

What these angels did resulted in the creation of the Nephilim.

are you that IGNORANT, don't be silly. let the Lord Jesus educate you... ok. now Listen and LEARN.

"The Nephilim, Who was they?"​

To understand who they, ......The Nephilim/Giants were, one need to understand their origins, and where their place was, A. before the flood, and B. after the flood in the scriptures. The scriptures that reveals it all for us before and after the flood is Genesis 6:4 "There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown”.

The key phrase in the verse is, “the same, (giants, H5303 נְפִיל nphiyl (nef-eel') n-m.), became mighty men”. BINGO, there is our first step in identifying who these Giants/Nephilim are. these giants/Nephilim became know as "MIGHTY MEN". knowing that, let's zero in on "MIGHTY MEN". the definition, Mighty Men: H1368 גִּבּוֹר gibbowr (ghib-bore') adj, here mean, גִּבֹּר gibbor (ghib-bore') [shortened]

1. powerful. 2. (by implication) a warrior, tyrant. [intensive from the same as H1397]

KJV: champion, chief, X excel, giant, man, mighty (man, one), strong (man), valiant man.

The KJV can translate the Nephilim, the Giants also as a man, but notice “MIGHTY MAN”

for the term Giants, as in Genesis 6:4 is
H5303 נְפִיל nphiyl (nef-eel') n-m.
נְפִל nphil (nef-eel')
(properly) a feller, i.e. a bully or tyrant.
[from H5307]
KJV: giant.
Root(s): H5307

notice both Giant, and Mighty men are tyrant..

Understand, our term Giant/Nephilim identifies what we’re looking for in this setting in two types of mighty men A. “Mighty Men” in valor. B. Mighty Men in Stature. So our first clue tells us to look for “ mighty men” in the bible, either of A. in valor. B. in Stature/Height.

the LIE about falle angels come in at the H5303 נְפִיל nphiyl (nef-eel') n-m. here it is,
H5303 נְפִיל nphiyl (nef-eel') n-m.
נְפִל nphil (nef-eel')
(properly) a feller, i.e. a bully or tyrant.
[from H5307]
KJV: giant.
Root(s): H5307

H5307 נָפַל naphal (naw-fal') v.
to fall.
{in a great variety of applications (intransitive or causative, literal or figurative)}
[a primitive root]
KJV: be accepted, cast (down, self, (lots), out), cease, die, divide (by lot), (let) fail, (cause to, let, make, ready to) fall (away, down, -en, -ing), fell(-ing), fugitive, have (inheritance), inferior, be judged (by mistake for H6419), lay (along), (cause to) lie down, light (down), be (X hast) lost, lying, overthrow, overwhelm, perish, present(-ed, -ing), (make to) rot, slay, smite out, X surely, throw down.

these men became "EVIL" they fell from GRACE as in Genesis 6:4 many became corrupt, as said in the definition, a bully or tyrant.
Now, before the flood, we say that the sons of God who had these giants, these Nephilim, these “mighty men” was ordinary men and women, AND NOT ONE ANGEL WAS INVOLVED IN ANY OFFSPRING. We can prove this by revealing who these giants, these Nephilim, these “mighty men” are after the flood and then we can understand who they are before the flood, and see that they had ordinary human fathers and mothers.

For there are two types of Nephilim, according to the bible. the Giants, men in stature and the Mighty Men in valor, whom all had Ordinary parents. Nothing supernatural here.

MIGHTY MEN​

Type I. “Mighty Men”, Ordinary men of valor, “A Warrior”.

Type II. “Mighty Men”, Ordinary men in stature, “A Giant”

if you need to be edified further just ask. ..... (smile)

101G.

 

[Soapy]

they never did. ....lol, lol, lol,,, Oh my, my, my,,,

are you that IGNORANT, don't be silly. let the Lord Jesus educate you... ok. now Listen and LEARN.

"The Nephilim, Who was they?"​

To understand who they, ......The Nephilim/Giants were, one need to understand their origins, and where their place was, A. before the flood, and B. after the flood in the scriptures. The scriptures that reveals it all for us before and after the flood is Genesis 6:4 "There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown”.

The key phrase in the verse is, “the same, (giants, H5303 נְפִיל nphiyl (nef-eel') n-m.), became mighty men”. BINGO, there is our first step in identifying who these Giants/Nephilim are. these giants/Nephilim became know as "MIGHTY MEN". knowing that, let's zero in on "MIGHTY MEN". the definition, Mighty Men: H1368 גִּבּוֹר gibbowr (ghib-bore') adj, here mean, גִּבֹּר gibbor (ghib-bore') [shortened]

1. powerful. 2. (by implication) a warrior, tyrant. [intensive from the same as H1397]

KJV: champion, chief, X excel, giant, man, mighty (man, one), strong (man), valiant man.

The KJV can translate the Nephilim, the Giants also as a man, but notice “MIGHTY MAN”

for the term Giants, as in Genesis 6:4 is
H5303 נְפִיל nphiyl (nef-eel') n-m.
נְפִל nphil (nef-eel')
(properly) a feller, i.e. a bully or tyrant.
[from H5307]
KJV: giant.
Root(s): H5307

notice both Giant, and Mighty men are tyrant..

Understand, our term Giant/Nephilim identifies what we’re looking for in this setting in two types of mighty men A. “Mighty Men” in valor. B. Mighty Men in Stature. So our first clue tells us to look for “ mighty men” in the bible, either of A. in valor. B. in Stature/Height.

the LIE about falle angels come in at the H5303 נְפִיל nphiyl (nef-eel') n-m. here it is,
H5303 נְפִיל nphiyl (nef-eel') n-m.
נְפִל nphil (nef-eel')
(properly) a feller, i.e. a bully or tyrant.
[from H5307]
KJV: giant.
Root(s): H5307

H5307 נָפַל naphal (naw-fal') v.
to fall.
{in a great variety of applications (intransitive or causative, literal or figurative)}
[a primitive root]
KJV: be accepted, cast (down, self, (lots), out), cease, die, divide (by lot), (let) fail, (cause to, let, make, ready to) fall (away, down, -en, -ing), fell(-ing), fugitive, have (inheritance), inferior, be judged (by mistake for H6419), lay (along), (cause to) lie down, light (down), be (X hast) lost, lying, overthrow, overwhelm, perish, present(-ed, -ing), (make to) rot, slay, smite out, X surely, throw down.

these men became "EVIL" they fell from GRACE as in Genesis 6:4 many became corrupt, as said in the definition, a bully or tyrant.
Now, before the flood, we say that the sons of God who had these giants, these Nephilim, these “mighty men” was ordinary men and women, AND NOT ONE ANGEL WAS INVOLVED IN ANY OFFSPRING. We can prove this by revealing who these giants, these Nephilim, these “mighty men” are after the flood and then we can understand who they are before the flood, and see that they had ordinary human fathers and mothers.

For there are two types of Nephilim, according to the bible. the Giants, men in stature and the Mighty Men in valor, whom all had Ordinary parents. Nothing supernatural here.

MIGHTY MEN​

Type I. “Mighty Men”, Ordinary men of valor, “A Warrior”.

Type II. “Mighty Men”, Ordinary men in stature, “A Giant”

if you need to be edified further just ask. ..... (smile)

101G.

Desperately trying to find a way to dispute…

Don’t you know when to give in and stop digging yourself into a deeper hole.

 

[Sargonski]

This should be a very short debate:

• If Jesus was ‘WITH God’ how could he ‘BE GOD’?
• Who is ‘GOD’ that Jesus was ‘WITH’?

John is a Helllenistic Pauline Fusion work --- John is casting Christianity in terms of Greek Philosophy - and is quite gnostic .. much different than the perspective of the Synoptics (Mark, Matt, Luke). John is trying to express Jesus in terms that the average Greek is going to understand .. thus increasing the attractiveness of this new religious cult.

The Author of John calls Jesus The "Logos" -- which means A) Word .. B) if used in a religious context means the emissary between man and God -- "Gods Word" essentially. Jesus then has a direct connection to .. or is an emination of/from the Godhead. Through the Holy Spirit Jesus is able to speak God's Word directly . Thus in this sense . Jesus IS the Word of God .. the Logos

In this way God is within Jesus .. but at the same time is not Jesus .. Jesus and God are "One" in spirit .. -- his word is one with God .. Gods word.

 

[Sargonski]

they never did. ....lol, lol, lol,,, Oh my, my, my,,,

are you that IGNORANT, don't be silly. let the Lord Jesus educate you... ok. now Listen and LEARN.

"The Nephilim, Who was they?"​

To understand who they, ......The Nephilim/Giants were, one need to understand their origins, and where their place was, A. before the flood, and B. after the flood in the scriptures. The scriptures that reveals it all for us before and after the flood is Genesis 6:4 "There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown”.

The key phrase in the verse is, “the same, (giants, H5303 נְפִיל nphiyl (nef-eel') n-m.), became mighty men”. BINGO, there is our first step in identifying who these Giants/Nephilim are. these giants/Nephilim became know as "MIGHTY MEN". knowing that, let's zero in on "MIGHTY MEN". the definition, Mighty Men: H1368 גִּבּוֹר gibbowr (ghib-bore') adj, here mean, גִּבֹּר gibbor (ghib-bore') [shortened]

1. powerful. 2. (by implication) a warrior, tyrant. [intensive from the same as H1397]

KJV: champion, chief, X excel, giant, man, mighty (man, one), strong (man), valiant man.

The KJV can translate the Nephilim, the Giants also as a man, but notice “MIGHTY MAN”

for the term Giants, as in Genesis 6:4 is
H5303 נְפִיל nphiyl (nef-eel') n-m.
נְפִל nphil (nef-eel')
(properly) a feller, i.e. a bully or tyrant.
[from H5307]
KJV: giant.
Root(s): H5307

notice both Giant, and Mighty men are tyrant..

Understand, our term Giant/Nephilim identifies what we’re looking for in this setting in two types of mighty men A. “Mighty Men” in valor. B. Mighty Men in Stature. So our first clue tells us to look for “ mighty men” in the bible, either of A. in valor. B. in Stature/Height.

the LIE about falle angels come in at the H5303 נְפִיל nphiyl (nef-eel') n-m. here it is,
H5303 נְפִיל nphiyl (nef-eel') n-m.
נְפִל nphil (nef-eel')
(properly) a feller, i.e. a bully or tyrant.
[from H5307]
KJV: giant.
Root(s): H5307

H5307 נָפַל naphal (naw-fal') v.
to fall.
{in a great variety of applications (intransitive or causative, literal or figurative)}
[a primitive root]
KJV: be accepted, cast (down, self, (lots), out), cease, die, divide (by lot), (let) fail, (cause to, let, make, ready to) fall (away, down, -en, -ing), fell(-ing), fugitive, have (inheritance), inferior, be judged (by mistake for H6419), lay (along), (cause to) lie down, light (down), be (X hast) lost, lying, overthrow, overwhelm, perish, present(-ed, -ing), (make to) rot, slay, smite out, X surely, throw down.

these men became "EVIL" they fell from GRACE as in Genesis 6:4 many became corrupt, as said in the definition, a bully or tyrant.
Now, before the flood, we say that the sons of God who had these giants, these Nephilim, these “mighty men” was ordinary men and women, AND NOT ONE ANGEL WAS INVOLVED IN ANY OFFSPRING. We can prove this by revealing who these giants, these Nephilim, these “mighty men” are after the flood and then we can understand who they are before the flood, and see that they had ordinary human fathers and mothers.

For there are two types of Nephilim, according to the bible. the Giants, men in stature and the Mighty Men in valor, whom all had Ordinary parents. Nothing supernatural here.

MIGHTY MEN​

Type I. “Mighty Men”, Ordinary men of valor, “A Warrior”.

Type II. “Mighty Men”, Ordinary men in stature, “A Giant”

if you need to be edified further just ask. ..... (smile)

101G.

Genesis states directly that the Sons of God were mating with the daughters of men .. and once again your information is false - need some better sources friend.

Genesis 6:
"When humankind[a] began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born[b] to them,[c] 2 the sons of God[d] saw that the daughters of humankind were beautiful. Thus they took wives for themselves from any they chose. 3 So the Lord said, “My Spirit will not remain in[e] humankind indefinitely,[f] since[g] they[h] are mortal.[i] They[j] will remain for 120 more years.”[k]

4 The Nephilim[l] were on the earth in those days (and also after this)[m] when the sons of God would sleep with[n] the daughters of humankind, who gave birth to their children.[o] They were the mighty heroes[p] of old, the famous men.[q]"

 

[Clear]

Clear asked @Soapy in post #87 :
REGARDING SOAPYS CLAIM THAT GOD WAS TALKING TO SATAN IN CREATING MAN IN "THEIR" LIKENESS.
You claimed that Jehovah was talking to Satan when he said "Let us create man in our image, in our likeness’. You did not answer this question in your reply in the above post #114.
The question was : "Can you refer to the scriptures you are using to develop this doctrine and explain why you interpret the scriptures in this way?"


REGARDING SOAPYS' CLAIM THAT SATAN CREATED THE BODY OF ADAM INSTEAD OF GOD
You also claim that "Satan created the Body of Adam."
Can you refer to the scriptures you are using to develop this doctrine and explain why you interpret the scriptures in this way?

Thanks in advance for explaining why you take this theological position regarding Satan.


Soapy replied in post #109 :
So I am not saying and have never said that ‘Satan created Man’!!!


Clear replied in post #113
Actually you did.
Let me quote your exact words and give you the exact reference :

Soapy said : "And think, why was Satan wanting to be worshipped by mankind like his Creator, YAHWEH, was worshipped … because it was to HIM that YAHWEH said:

• ‘Let us create man in our image, in our likeness’ (meaning: with intelligence, wisdom, self-Will, and judgemental power)

Satan created the body of Adam… Yahweh God put the Spirit into the body to enliven it. Satan said, ‘I deserve to worshipped by these created souls (speaking of generations to come of self-procreating humans) because I helped create them. But God said ‘No!: The flesh counts for nothing - the spirit is all!’." (underlines are by Clear)

Here is the link to your post (post #1114) where you claimed Satan created the body of Adam and God was talking to Satan when saying "let us create man in our image". : Watchtower: Jesus is not "a god"!

@Soapy, If you are now admitting that this doctrine you declared regarding Satan is incorrect then that is perfectly fine and I would agree with that admission. We have NO evidence that this text meant that Satan created the body of Adam or that it was Satan that God was talking to when he said "Let us create man in our image".


Soapy replied in post #114
"Creating a BODY is NOTHING to an Angel. A body is just elements of the earth put together in certain order. It takes a spirit in it to make it LIVE. Only GOD can put a spirit in a body to make it Living. "




1) WHY DENIAL OF PRIOR WRITTEN CLAIMS IS AN INAPPROPRIATE AND COUNTERPRODUCTIVE TOOL IN DEBATING
Thank you @Soapy for not repeating your initial denial that you wrote what you actually wrote.

Denials that you made written claims when there is objective, undeniable evidence that you DID make those written claims are a poor tool to attempt to use in forum debates. Readers now are faced with objective evidence that your denial was false.

One major problem with your having made written claims and then later denying that you made the claims is that it is very easy to simply quote your written claim and give the link. Readers and Posters can simply look at your original claim for themselves.

Denial of your prior actions and claims also squanders one's credibility and once readers realize that a poster is willing to enter into areas of untruth to support their claims, their credibility is very, very difficult to regain.


2) REGARDING SOAPYS CLAIM THAT GOD WAS TALKING TO SATAN IN CREATING MAN IN "THEIR" LIKENESS.
Your new and additional claim that "Creating a BODY is NOTHING to an Angel" does not answer the question you were asked.

The question you were asked regarding your claim that God was talking to Satan when saying "Let us create man in our image" was : "Can you refer to the scriptures you are using to develop this doctrine and explain why you interpret the scriptures in this way?"

This feels like a very strange and bizarre claim. Are you able to provide scriptures as to why you made this claim?


3) REGARDING SOAPYS' CLAIM THAT SATAN CREATED THE BODY OF ADAM INSTEAD OF GOD
You also claim that "Satan created the Body of Adam."
Your new and additional claim that "Creating a BODY is NOTHING to an Angel" does not answer this question you were asked.
Soapy, Can you refer to the scriptures you are using to create this doctrine and explain why you interpret the scriptures in this way?

Thanks in advance for not simply repeating your denial, but instead, readers may be very interested in your explanation as to why you take this theological position regarding Satan.


Clear
σιφισιω

 

[101G]

Desperately trying to find a way to dispute…

dispute? reprove more like it... lol. you had no clue that The Nephilim/Giants means "MIGHTY MEN" did U? .....nope, because you're IGNORANT ...... of God Holy Word.

and U had no clue that there are TWO Types of Might Men in the bible.

Type I. “Mighty Men”, Ordinary men of valor, “A Warrior”.

Type II. “Mighty Men”, Ordinary men in stature, “A Giant”

U had no clue ... did U?

Genesis states directly that the Sons of God were mating with the daughters of men .. and once again your information is false - need some better sources friend.

Genesis 6:
"When humankind[a] began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born[b] to them,[c] 2 the sons of God[d] saw that the daughters of humankind were beautiful. Thus they took wives for themselves from any they chose. 3 So the Lord said, “My Spirit will not remain in[e] humankind indefinitely,[f] since[g] they[h] are mortal.[i] They[j] will remain for 120 more years.”[k]

4 The Nephilim[l] were on the earth in those days (and also after this)[m] when the sons of God would sleep with[n] the daughters of humankind, who gave birth to their children.[o] They were the mighty heroes[p] of old, the famous men.[q]"

now before 101G answer, let's be sure of our terms as to WHO the "sons of God are?". 101G say ordinary humans, now your answer please.

101G.

 

[Soapy]

dispute? reprove more like it... lol. you had no clue that The Nephilim/Giants means "MIGHTY MEN" did U? .....nope, because you're IGNORANT ...... of God Holy Word.

and U had no clue that there are TWO Types of Might Men in the bible.

Type I. “Mighty Men”, Ordinary men of valor, “A Warrior”.

Type II. “Mighty Men”, Ordinary men in stature, “A Giant”

U had no clue ... did U?

now before 101G answer, let's be sure of our terms as to WHO the "sons of God are?". 101G say ordinary humans, now your answer please.

101G.

What you mean is that you cannot answer… more like ‘dare not answer’.

 

[Soapy]

dispute? reprove more like it... lol. you had no clue that The Nephilim/Giants means "MIGHTY MEN" did U? .....nope, because you're IGNORANT ...... of God Holy Word.

and U had no clue that there are TWO Types of Might Men in the bible.

Type I. “Mighty Men”, Ordinary men of valor, “A Warrior”.

Type II. “Mighty Men”, Ordinary men in stature, “A Giant”

U had no clue ... did U?

Why would I not know that Nephilim are people - Human Males though grossly large (However, there is no mention by any of the spies sent by Moses that any of them were female!)

now before 101G answer, let's be sure of our terms as to WHO the "sons of God are?". 101G say ordinary humans, now your answer please.

101G.

‘Sons of God’ are holy angels… some who were persuaded became known as demons (fallen angels).

 

[101G]

What you mean is that you cannot answer… more like ‘dare not answer’.

can U READ? I said before I answer, let's set the terms for the sons of God so that there be no excuses. .... READ BEFORE U SPEAK.

101G.

 

[101G]

Why would I not know that Nephilim are people - Human Males though grossly large (However, there is no mention by any of the spies sent by Moses that any of them were female!)

and?... Oh my how IGNORANT.

101G

 

[Sargonski]

dispute? reprove more like it... lol. you had no clue that The Nephilim/Giants means "MIGHTY MEN" did U? .....nope, because you're IGNORANT ...... of God Holy Word.

and U had no clue that there are TWO Types of Might Men in the bible.

Type I. “Mighty Men”, Ordinary men of valor, “A Warrior”.

Type II. “Mighty Men”, Ordinary men in stature, “A Giant”

U had no clue ... did U?

now before 101G answer, let's be sure of our terms as to WHO the "sons of God are?". 101G say ordinary humans, now your answer please.

101G.

The "Sons of God" are "Sons of God" in the case of Psalm 82 "Sons of the Supreme one" - Sons of EL.

Or did you wish to claim that they are Sons of YHWH as that is your only other choice --- the false choice .. but a choice never the less.

 

[101G]

The "Sons of God" are "Sons of God" in the case of Psalm 82 "Sons of the Supreme one" - Sons of EL.

Or did you wish to claim that they are Sons of YHWH as that is your only other choice --- the false choice .. but a choice never the less.

fine are you saying that they are HUMAN, yes or no?

101G

 

[101G]

fine are you saying that they are HUMAN, yes or no?

101G

a simply yes or no will do. then 101G will know how to answer u.

101G.

 

[Sargonski]

fine are you saying that they are HUMAN, yes or no?

101G

The "Sons of the Supreme one" EL being the Supreme one mentioned by name .. in the Council of EL

The Divinities who YHWH is addressing when he says "Ye are Gods --- Sons of the Supreme one" -- are not Human .. that much is clear

What is also clear .. is that everyone singing that song in Church - Psalm 82 -- did not for a second thing the "Sons of God" being referred to in the "Divine Council" were human. The first problem .. among a thousand others that apologists are desperate to grapple .. is that the council is going on in Heaven .. Not on Earth .. same as when the "Sons of God" are visiting The Most High in Job -- our good friend Sataniel is among them .. turns out not to be such a bad fellow -- always does right by God..

That Satan fellow had some rather God - Like Powers for one you want to claim is human .. Satan being a "Son of God" .. somewhat like Jesus .. cept Jesus is half human .. half God .. the "Sons of God" would be full god on god mating .. .. but that is another story.

"bni e-aleim " - and we see this same term many times ... - translated "Sons of the Elohim" .. which might also be read as "Sons of the Gods" perhaps .. but either way .... these are not children of some high stationed humans .. that is absurd nonsense. hanging out and partying with the big guy in Deut 32:43 .. those fellows .. higher than the angels they are which are also mentioned in this verse .. but not in your Bible unfortunately -- White-washed those divinities out around 900 AD when the MT was created .. you have to go back to the LXX -- 200 BC to get the Divine Revelation my Friend - go find me that translation from the LXX and/or 4Deutq - also from 200 BC.

Got to get that OLD time religion mate...

 

[101G]

The Divinities who YHWH is addressing when he says "Ye are Gods --- Sons of the Supreme one" -- are not Human .. that much is clear

that's all 101G need to Know. the term sons of God in the bible only refer to humans. and no one else. so your question is irrelevant. if you can find just one verse that the sons of God that do not refer to human, .... DIRECTLY, without metaphoric mentioning, then101G will answer you.

now before you open your mouth concerning Job 38:7 "When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?" the morning stars here, in Job 38 are the actual stars in the heavens, and the sons of God here, in Job 38 are the actual Sun and moon metaphorically spoken of.

so, just one verse concerning the sons of God that are not human. post book chapter and verse please.

101G.

 

[Clear]

Hi @Sargonski and @101G

I don't really want to enter into your debate other than to make a specific and single point regarding "the Sons of God" in psalms 82 that you two are discussing.

You seem to be talking apples and oranges.

For example, Sargonski seems to be referring to a historical Judeo-Christian definition where the Sons of God ARE Sons of God just as the scripture alludes to while 101G seems to be referring to a personal, and modern metaphorical interpretation where "Sons of God" are "actual stars in the heavens".

Thus while Sargonski has historical Judeo-Christian Literature (e.g. Dead Sea Scroll thanksgiving psalms, Ancient heavenly council literature, etc. ) on his side, 101G is left to create a very strange metaphor where inanimate stars are able to "shout for joy".

The point is that Sargonski seems to be using a historical Judeo-Christian definition, 101G is using a personal and modern definition.

So, if you ask religious textual historians of the period who is correct, they will obviously vote for Sargonski (who seems to have some historical background). If you ask 101G if he is right, who know who will vote in favor for his definition other than himself, and perhaps a scattered group of non-historians.

Thus, 101Gs personal interpretive theory must remain OUTSIDE religious history, his personal interpretation can survive in the world of dogma but it cannot survive in the world of ancient sacred Judeo-Christian historical literature while Sargonski's claim is perfectly comfortable in the world of ancient historical literature such as the thanksgiving psalms.

In any case, good luck in coming to your own individual understanding of such references.

Clear
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