“The Son is equal to his Father”

[Soapy]

And note Carefully…….

• Jesus only received THE POWER OF GOD to do good while on earth. He STILL HAD TO ‘pray the Father’ in order to USE IT.

But, shortly before Jesus was CRUCIFIED, he said that:

• ‘ALL POWER AND AUTHORITY has been given to me [by the Father]’

So, it was only after Jesus was raised up to Heaven BY HIS FATHER, BY GOD: YAHWEH, did Jesus have, now, not only thr power of God, his Father, BUT that he could now USE IT without ‘praying the Father’.

How is the Son equal to the Father if the Son has to “pray the Father” to use what the Father PUT ON HIM (the Holy Spirit).

And, if receiving the Holy Spirit meant Jesus was NOW GOD, two further questions arise:

1. What was Jesus BEFORE he received ‘The Holy Spirit and Power’
2. The Apostles also received the Holy Spirit - Are they also then ‘GOD’, EQUAL TO THE FATHER?

The answer is clear: NO!!

And consider this:

• If the Father gives to the son then assuredly the son cannot have been equal to the Father.
  • To be the receiver, the son must have NOT HAD that thing the Father gave him. No equality there!
• The Son GIVES BACK to the Father what the Father gave him. The Father receives BACK what he gave to the Son…
  • To receive BACK something assuredly means that the receiver was always the OWNER of the thing received back. Now the son is dispossessed of what the Father gave him…. No equality there!

So we can say:

• The Father GAVE LIFE to the Son (‘Father’ means ‘He who gives life to something’)
• The Son is a DUTIFUL SERVANT in service to the Father. He was Willed by the Father to GIVE UP HIS PURE UNBLEMISHED LIFE for the sin of Adam… he did that. So this means the son ‘GAVE HIS LIFE BACK’ to the Father… Jesus WAS DEAD… and that’s why we commemorate his death… Why do Trinitarians commemorate if they say Jesus DID NOT DIE!!!
• For being dutiful in all things, the Father not only GAVE JESUS A NEW IMMORTAL LIFE but made him KING OVER ALL OF CREATION… now that is a prize worth dying for!!!! But even JESUS (whom Trinitarians say is ALMIGHTY God) SWEATED BLOOD over whether he would be raised back up from the dead: what kind of ALMIGHTY GOD do trinitarians believe in?

So why does trinity profess the complete opposite - and cannot even prove their ideology - while demanding that:

• to be a Christian means ‘believing the lie’?

 

[KerimF]

I have been trying to research from the Christian Bible the idea that:

• ‘A son is equal to his Father’

I can, nowhere, find such a schema from Judaism or Christianity but it is relevant to a part of trinitarianism and other ‘Father, Son, and Holy Spirit’ type of ideological beliefs, wherein it is claimed that:

1. ‘Jesus is equal to God because he is the Son of God’
2. ‘Jesus had the same nature as God so he, too, is God’
3. ‘Jesus received all things that the Father had therefore jesus is God’

I’m searching for the reasoning behind ‘Son is equal to Father’ in Christianity or tradition of the Jews - or that it is a myth to substantiate a falsehood of trinitarianism.

Even in the material world, one may say: "I and my wife are one."
Does this mean the man is equal to his wife?!
Could you guess what it means?
If not, I am afraid that you also cannot understand, what Jesus meant when he says: "I and my Father are one.

If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

 

[Trailblazer]

Even in the material world, one may say: "I and my wife are one."
Does this mean the man is equal to his wife?!
Could you guess what it means?

I believe that it means that God and Jesus were one in purpose and they were connected, the same way a man and wife should be connected.

I believe that “I and my Father are one” (John 10:30) means that whatever pertains to Jesus, all His acts and doings, are identical with the Will of God Himself. Jesus and God also share the same Holy Spirit, so in that sense they are one and the same. Jesus also shares the Attributes of God so in that sense they are one and the same. The verse below says that God was manifest in the flesh; it does not say that God became flesh.

1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

 

[KerimF]

I believe that it means that God and Jesus were one in purpose and they were connected, the same way a man and wife should be connected.

I believe that “I and my Father are one” (John 10:30) means that whatever pertains to Jesus, all His acts and doings, are identical with the Will of God Himself. Jesus and God also share the same Holy Spirit, so in that sense they are one and the same. Jesus also shares the Attributes of God so in that sense they are one and the same. The verse below says that God was manifest in the flesh; it does not say that God became flesh.

1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

I am not sure if it is just me who sees the following:

My Father in Heaven does represent fully the One Will (God) behind my existence.
Jesus also does represent fully the One Will (God) behind my existence.
The Holy Spirit too does represent fully the One Will (God) behind my existence.

But...

My God cannot be just My Father in Heaven alone (that is... if not unified with Jesus by the Holy Spirit).
My God cannot be just Jesus alone (that is... if not unified with my Father in Heaven by the Holy Spirit)..
My God cannot exist if the Holy Spirit is alone (that is my Father in Heaven and Jesus are separated beings and have, therefore, two different wills).

This explains why Jesus is very serious about the Holy Spirit

Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit shall not be forgiven unto men.
And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

In fact, those who are created of a living flesh only to serve the material world cannot believe in the existence of (actually, cannot perceive) the Divine Spirit of Love which unifies two independent beings and lets them be seen by any outsider as if they were One Being having One Will.

 

[Trailblazer]

I am not sure if it is just me who sees the following:

My Father in Heaven does represent fully the One Will (God) behind my existence.
Jesus also does represent fully the One Will (God) behind my existence.
The Holy Spirit too does represent fully the One Will (God) behind my existence.

But...

My God cannot be just My Father in Heaven alone (that is... if not unified with Jesus by the Holy Spirit).
My God cannot be just Jesus alone (that is... if not unified with my Father in Heaven by the Holy Spirit)..
My God cannot exist if the Holy Spirit is alone (that is my Father in Heaven and Jesus are separated beings and have, therefore, two different wills).

This explains why Jesus is very serious about the Holy Spirit

Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit shall not be forgiven unto men.
And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

In fact, those who are created of a living flesh only to serve the material world cannot believe in the existence of (actually, cannot perceive) the Divine Spirit of Love which unifies two independent beings and lets them be seen by any outsider as if they were One Being having One Will.

Can you summarize what you are saying? I am not sure I understand what you mean.
Thanks.

 

[KerimF]

Can you summarize what you are saying? I am not sure I understand what you mean.
Thanks.

In the material world, if we look at a company ( C ) founded by 2 partners ( A and B ) by a well defined contract ( T ), we can say:

The partner ( A ) does represent fully the company ( C ).
The partner ( B ) also does represent fully the company ( C ).
Their contract ( T ) on which their company is founded does represent fully their company ( C )

But...

The company ( C ) couldn't exist by just ( A ) alone if not unified with ( B ) by the contract ( T ).
The company ( C ) couldn't exist by just ( B ) alone if not unified with ( A ) by the contract ( T ).
The company ( C ) couldn't exist by the contract ( T ) alone if it wasn't accepted and agreed on fully by ( A ) and ( B ).

I hope this helps.

 

[Trailblazer]

In the material world, if we look at a company ( C ) founded by 2 partners ( A and B ) by a well defined contract ( T ), we can say:

The partner ( A ) does represent fully the company ( C ).
The partner ( B ) also does represent fully the company ( C ).
Their contract ( T ) on which their company is founded does represent fully their company ( C )

But...

The company ( C ) couldn't exist by just ( A ) alone if not unified with ( B ) by the contract ( T ).
The company ( C ) couldn't exist by just ( B ) alone if not unified with ( A ) by the contract ( T ).
The company ( C ) couldn't exist by the contract ( T ) alone if it wasn't accepted and agreed on fully by ( A ) and ( B ).

I hope this helps.

I think I understand what you mean considering what you said in your previous post, so now I am going to plug in the values as I understand them to be:

In the material world, if we look at a company ( God’s Plan through Revelation ) founded by 2 partners ( Jesus and Holy Spirit ) by a well defined contract ( God’s Covenant ), we can say:

The partner ( Jesus ) does represent fully the company ( God ).
The partner ( Holy Spirit ) also does represent fully the company ( God ).
Their contract ( God’s Covenant ) on which their company is founded does represent fully their company ( God’s Plan through Revelation )

But...

The company ( God’s Plan through Revelation ) couldn't exist by just ( Jesus ) alone if not unified with ( Holy Spirit ) by the contract ( God’s Covenant ).
The company ( God’s Plan through Revelation ) couldn't exist by just ( Jesus ) alone if not unified with ( Holy Spirit ) by the contract ( God/ God’s Plan through Revelation ).
The company ( God’s Plan through Revelation ) couldn't exist by the contract (God’s Covenant ) alone if it wasn't accepted and agreed on fully by ( Jesus ) and ( Holy Spirit ).

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Before, you said:

My God cannot be just My Father in Heaven alone (that is... if not unified with Jesus by the Holy Spirit).
My God cannot be just Jesus alone (that is... if not unified with my Father in Heaven by the Holy Spirit)..
My God cannot exist if the Holy Spirit is alone (that is my Father in Heaven and Jesus are separated beings and have, therefore, two different wills).

So as I understand it, you are saying that the Father (God), the Son (Jesus) and the Holy Spirit have to be working together and be of the same Will.

Here is how I have explained what I believe to Trinitarian Christians:

God is One, not divided into parts.

The Holy Spirit is the Bounty of God, an emanation from God. God is like the sun and the Holy Spirit is like the rays of the sun. God remains in His own high place, and does not ever descend to earth.

The Holy Spirit is the Bounty of God which became visible and evident in Jesus Christ.

Jesus Christ was like a clear mirror, and God became visible in the mirror, but God did not descend into the mirror. This is why Christ said, “The Father is in the Son,” meaning that the God was visible and manifest in this mirror.

27: THE TRINITY

Briefly, I believe that Jesus and the Holy Spirit worked together to reveal God to humanity and God is part of the “team” because God sent the Holy Spirit to Jesus and Jesus brought the Holy Spirit to humanity. Sure, the three of them were there together, and they were working together, but they were SEPARATE. The three of them are not PART of One God as the Trinitarians believe.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
So back to what you said before:

This explains why Jesus is very serious about the Holy Spirit

Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit shall not be forgiven unto men.
And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

Can you explain in brief why you think Jesus is very serious about the Holy Spirit? Then I will explain what I believe those verses mean and why I think Jesus said that.

 

[KerimF]

Can you explain in brief why you think Jesus is very serious about the Holy Spirit? Then I will explain what I believe those verses mean and why I think Jesus said that.

The crucial difference in what you and I say is how we see 'God'.

To you, God is whom Jesus refers to as the Father in Heaven.

To me, the simplest image of God is of the 'One Will behind my existence' of two spiritual beings unified, since before Creation, by the spiritual Love.
In my previous analogy, the company ( C ) refers to God.

First, when humans were not evolved enough yet spiritually (they were like kids of humanity), the image of God was introduced as One Entity without further details. At that time, the unified two beings in Heaven addressed a group of humans in the way that loving parents do with their kids to help them know how to be safe and healthy and prepare them to become free when adults. This was done by what is known as God's Law (parents rules) and various informative tales (as teaching by suitable fairy tales). At that time, what is known as God's Chosen People are the ones who were prepared to welcome among them one of the two spiritual unified beings (one is enough, I guess). This was planned to happen when 'some of humans' were evolved enough spiritually to perceive they have also in them a living soul besides their earthly living flesh.

About 2000 years ago, only one of the two unified spiritual beings took a human flesh to reveal, in person, many crucial natural truths for those who perceive in them a living soul (adults of humanity). He came to help them know how to use their free will in feeding their soul while they live in the natural world's jungle (ruled by the humans who were given a human living flesh only or lost their soul for one reason or another).

If we ask ourselves: “What could be the names that refer best to the two unified spiritual beings when one of them only is incarnated?

The best name that our human language can describe the incarnated Jesus is ‘Son of God’ which means to the humans who perceive in them a spiritual living soul ‘Coming from the One Will which is behind their existence’. Let us recall that ‘son of desert’ doesn’t mean that desert is a father, the same applies for ‘son of sin’... etc.

The best name that, for many reasons, our human language can describe the non incarnated spiritual being is ‘Father in Heaven’.

[1] It is known universally in the ‘material world’ that the best natural union in life could be found between a loving father and his beloved son.

[2] In the material world, the word ‘father’ could also refer to someone who takes care of a certain group of people as if they were his beloved children.

[3] Between a loving father and a beloved mature son there is only love and trust (Jesus 1st advice). On the other hand, a material human may worship, praise and obey someone else if the latter is seen as a selfish being who has all the means to play the powerful ruler against whoever dares opposing him. (Atheists are smart enough to choose obeying their earthly ruling system only).

Unfortunately, the human language cannot give the right name that could refer to the Divine Spirit of Love, the Holy Spirit. Although the Holy Spirit does exist but it is not a being as the two unified spiritual beings are. I hope the following analogy can help:

If we meet 4 persons ( A, B,C and D):
The two persons A and B used to be good and have accepted each other as a trusted friend.
The persons C and D used to be good but they don’t see each other as a trusted friend.

How could we know the couple who are real friends? Apparently, the two couples are alike.
Speaking practically, we can know them from how they react. And we may say that the two friends (two human beings, not spirits) are joined by a sort of ‘spirit’ which could be called ‘the spirit of real friendship’.

But if A and B exist as spiritual beings already, what could be the nature/name of what can join them and let them have One Will towards any outsider? I am afraid there is no name for it yet... so we have no choice but calling it ‘a spirit’ too.

Please note that I am not here to convince anyone about anything because I, in my turn, didn’t need being convinced by anyone about anything.

 

[Trailblazer]

To you, God is whom Jesus refers to as the Father in Heaven.

To me, the simplest image of God is of the 'One Will behind my existence' of two spiritual beings unified, since before Creation, by the spiritual Love.
In my previous analogy, the company ( C ) refers to God.

Now let’s go back to your analogy and please tell me if I understood you correctly.

The partner ( Jesus ) does represent fully the company ( God ).
The partner ( Holy Spirit ) also does represent fully the company ( God ).
Their contract ( God’s Law ) on which their company is founded does represent fully their company ( God )

(What is the contract?)

The company ( God ) couldn't exist by just ( Jesus ) alone if not unified with ( Holy Spirit ) by the contract ( T ).
The company ( God ) couldn't exist by just ( Holy Spirit ) alone if not unified with (Jesus) by the contract ( T ).
The company ( God ) couldn't exist by the contract ( T ) alone if it wasn't accepted and agreed on fully by ( Jesus ) and ( Holy Spirit ).

(What is the contract?)

Formerly you said: My God cannot exist if the Holy Spirit is alone (that is my Father in Heaven and Jesus are separated beings and have, therefore, two different wills).

I believe that Jesus and God are two separate entities but that they share the same will. “I and my Father are one” (John 10:30) means that Jesus and God are one and the same, so whatever pertains to Jesus, all His acts and doings, are identical with the Will of God Himself. Jesus and God also share the same Holy Spirit, so in that sense they are one and the same.

Now, tell me if I got this right.

First, when humans were not evolved enough yet spiritually (they were like kids of humanity), the image of God was introduced as One Entity (God) without further details. At that time, the unified two beings in Heaven (God and Jesus) addressed a group of humans in the way that loving parents do with their kids to help them know how to be safe and healthy and prepare them to become free when adults. This was done by what is known as God's Law (parents rules) and various informative tales (as teaching by suitable fairy tales). At that time, what is known as God's Chosen People (the Jews) are the ones who were prepared to welcome among them one of the two spiritual unified beings (one is enough, I guess). This was planned to happen when 'some of humans' were evolved enough spiritually to perceive they have also in them a living soul besides their earthly living flesh.

How could Jesus address a group of humans who live in Earth from Heaven, revealing God’s Law? Or are you saying that God and Jesus were unified in Heaven and then Jesus was sent to Earth to reveal God’s law? If so, I agree with you because I believe that the soul of Jesus was preexistent in Heaven, which I refer to as the spiritual world.

I believe that the soul of Jesus had pre-existence in the spiritual world before His body was born in this world, whereas the souls of all humans come into being at the moment of conception. The spiritual world is where Jesus got His special powers from God. I believe that Jesus has a universal divine mind that is different than ours and that is why God was able to speak to Jesus through the Holy Spirit.

About 2000 years ago, only one of the two unified spiritual beings took a human flesh to reveal, in person, many crucial natural truths for those who perceive in them a living soul (adults of humanity). He came to help them know how to use their free will in feeding their soul while they live in the natural world's jungle (ruled by the humans who were given a human living flesh only or lost their soul for one reason or another).

Are you saying that God, unified with Jesus, took the form of human flesh, or are you saying that Jesus, unified with God, took the form of human flesh?

 

[KerimF]

Now let’s go back to your analogy and please tell me if I understood you correctly.

The partner ( Jesus ) does represent fully the company ( God ).
The partner ( Holy Spirit ) also does represent fully the company ( God ).
Their contract ( God’s Law ) on which their company is founded does represent fully their company ( God )

(What is the contract?)

The company ( God ) couldn't exist by just ( Jesus ) alone if not unified with ( Holy Spirit ) by the contract ( T ).
The company ( God ) couldn't exist by just ( Holy Spirit ) alone if not unified with (Jesus) by the contract ( T ).
The company ( God ) couldn't exist by the contract ( T ) alone if it wasn't accepted and agreed on fully by ( Jesus ) and ( Holy Spirit ).

The partner ( Jesus ) does represent fully the company ( God ).
The partner ( the Father in Heaven ) also does represent fully the company ( God ).
Their contract (the Divine Spirit of Love, the Holy Spirit) on which their company is founded does represent fully their company ( God )

The company ( God ) couldn't exist by just ( Jesus ) alone if not unified with ( the Father in Heaven ) by the contract ( the Holy Spirit ).
The company ( God ) couldn't exist by just ( the Father in Heaven ) alone if not unified with ( Jesus ) by the contract ( the Holy Spirit ).
The company ( God ) couldn't exist by the contract ( the Holy Spirit ) alone if it wasn't accepted and agreed on fully by ( Jesus ) and ( the Father in Heaven ).

Please don't worry if you can't get well this image of God. You can simply see God in the/your Father in Heaven only

 

[Trailblazer]

The partner ( Jesus ) does represent fully the company ( God ).
The partner ( the Father in Heaven ) also does represent fully the company ( God ).
Their contract (the Divine Spirit of Love, the Holy Spirit) on which their company is founded does represent fully their company ( God )

The company ( God ) couldn't exist by just ( Jesus ) alone if not unified with ( the Father in Heaven ) by the contract ( the Holy Spirit ).
The company ( God ) couldn't exist by just ( the Father in Heaven ) alone if not unified with ( Jesus ) by the contract ( the Holy Spirit ).
The company ( God ) couldn't exist by the contract ( the Holy Spirit ) alone if it wasn't accepted and agreed on fully by ( Jesus ) and ( the Father in Heaven ).

Please don't worry if you can't get well this image of God. You can simply see God in the/your Father in Heaven only

So you view God as a separate entity from the Father in heaven? What is the difference between God and the Father in heaven?
Who is the Father if not God?
So the Father and the Son work together for God under contract with the Holy Spirit?

 

[KerimF]

So you view God as a separate entity from the Father in heaven? What is the difference between God and the Father in heaven?
Who is the Father if not God?
So the Father and the Son work together for God under contract with the Holy Spirit?

It is always easier for a human to see the One Will (God), behind his existence, belonging to One Spiritual Being only. But believing in this God's image and saying that God is a True Loving Being would be, speaking practically, not realistic. A one of his kind cannot know Love that unifies two independent beings of the same nature and let them have one will.

Similarly if a human couldn't believe in the existence of the Spirit of Love that unifies two independent beings of the same nature and let them have one will, he would have no choice but seeing the One Will (God) behind his existence (and of the time/space realm) as belonging to 'one of his kind' Being whom he calls God too.

The Father and Jesus don't work for God! They are God by having One Will while being unified by the Spirit of Love, the Holy Spirit.

So while in all religions, believers have to obey what is known as God's Law, Jesus didn't impose any rule to be observed because living the unconditional love towards all others is strictly a personal free will choice (this is the sole possible free will that a human may have). After all, if love/trust is imposed by a law it can be anything but True Love/Trust.

 

[Trailblazer]

The Father and Jesus don't work for God! They are God by having One Will while being unified by the Spirit of Love, the Holy Spirit.

Thanks for clarifying what you believe. I do not believe that Jesus is God, but I believe the Father is God. I believe that Jesus worked for God in the sense that God gave Jesus an earthly mission to complete.

So while in all religions, believers have to obey what is known as God's Law, Jesus didn't impose any rule to be observed because living the unconditional love towards all others is strictly a personal free will choice (this is the sole possible free will that a human may have). After all, if love/trust is imposed by a law it can be anything but True Love/Trust.

I believe that God loves everyone unconditionally but God judges us according to our beliefs and deeds. I do not believe that unconditional love of humans towards all other humans is beneficial for or desirable because it precludes equity and justice. I do not believe that is what Jesus meant when He said to love your neighbor as yourself.

“O ye beloved of the Lord! The Kingdom of God is founded upon equity and justice, and also upon mercy, compassion, and kindness to every living soul. Strive ye then with all your heart to treat compassionately all humankind—except for those who have some selfish, private motive, or some disease of the soul. Kindness cannot be shown the tyrant, the deceiver, or the thief, because, far from awakening them to the error of their ways, it maketh them to continue in their perversity as before. No matter how much kindliness ye may expend upon the liar, he will but lie the more, for he believeth you to be deceived, while ye understand him but too well, and only remain silent out of your extreme compassion.” Selections From the Writings of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, p. 158

As a Baha'i, I believe that God's Laws are absolutely essential if humanity is to survive, progress, and evolve spiritually. I believe that God's Laws are a sign of God's mercy unto men. A lawless society is mere chaos. God has decreed as lawful whatsoever He pleased to decree, and has, through the power of His sovereign might, forbidden whatsoever He elected to forbid. Men, however, have wittingly broken His law, and that is the cause of evil in the world.

Baha'u'llah wrote a Book of Laws called The Kitáb-i-Aqdas, and the following are some excerpts from the Introduction:

“In its affirmation of the validity of the great religions of the past, the Kitáb-i-Aqdas reiterates those eternal truths enunciated by all the Divine Messengers: the unity of God, love of one’s neighbour, and the moral purpose of earthly life. At the same time it removes those elements of past religious codes that now constitute obstacles to the emerging unification of the world and the reconstruction of human society……

Throughout, it is the relationship of the individual soul to God and the fulfilment of its spiritual destiny that is the ultimate aim of the laws of religion. “Think not”, is Bahá’u’lláh’s own assertion, “that We have revealed unto you a mere code of laws. Nay, rather, We have unsealed the choice Wine with the fingers of might and power.” His Book of Laws is His “weightiest testimony unto all people, and the proof of the All-Merciful unto all who are in heaven and all who are on earth”.
The Kitáb-i-Aqdas, Introduction, pp. 2-3

 

[KerimF]

Thanks for clarifying what you believe. I do not believe that Jesus is God, but I believe the Father is God. I believe that Jesus worked for God in the sense that God gave Jesus an earthly mission to complete.

Of course, one cannot believe, even if he wants to, that the One Will of Creation (God) could be of two unified beings if he has a living flesh only which is guided by the natural selfishness of survival (the pre-programmed instructions, instincts, embedded in his living flesh).

I believe that God loves everyone unconditionally but God judges us according to our beliefs and deeds.

In reality, no one expects a judge to love unconditionally those whom he has to judge. A judge has no choice but to apply the rules of a certain well-defined law that limits his given power.

I do not believe that unconditional love of humans towards all other humans is beneficial for or desirable because it precludes equity and justice.

You are totally right. Humans who were given a human living flesh only must not believe in jesus unconditional love because it contradicts clearly their instincts of survival. Yes, such humans must believe in applying justice on others; the justice that suits best the survival of their living flesh, if not their species .

I do not believe that is what Jesus meant when He said to love your neighbor as yourself.

Who says that a neighbor cannot be an enemy?
By the way, the English word 'neighbor' is in Arabic 'who is near you' (not just who lives by your house, and Jesus gave a parable for it).

“O ye beloved of the Lord! The Kingdom of God is founded upon equity and justice, and also upon mercy, compassion, and kindness to every living soul. Strive ye then with all your heart to treat compassionately all humankind—except for those who have some selfish, private motive, or some disease of the soul. Kindness cannot be shown the tyrant, the deceiver, or the thief, because, far from awakening them to the error of their ways, it maketh them to continue in their perversity as before. No matter how much kindliness ye may expend upon the liar, he will but lie the more, for he believeth you to be deceived, while ye understand him but too well, and only remain silent out of your extreme compassion.” Selections From the Writings of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, p. 158

In reality, a slave is a slave no matter how good his master is.
So if Jesus tells me that God (the One Will behind my existence) is simply of a certain supernatural being playing the Supreme Judge/ Master on me, I wouldn't hear anything else from him, no matter how good this Master is.

I know already that I am enslaved by those who run the ruling systems in the world (for example, I can't move from one place to another if I don't get their permission first). So I would be a real naive person if I don't mind seeing also myself as a slave in a Supernatural Kingdom.

As a Baha'i, I believe that God's Laws are absolutely essential if humanity is to survive, progress, and evolve spiritually. I believe that God's Laws are a sign of God's mercy unto men. A lawless society is mere chaos. God has decreed as lawful whatsoever He pleased to decree, and has, through the power of His sovereign might, forbidden whatsoever He elected to forbid. Men, however, have wittingly broken His law, and that is the cause of evil in the world.

I bet no one told you yet that, if we exclude the word God and the like, the atheist Chinese people, for example, also believe as you do concerning humanity. (I was in China for business twice).

 

[Trailblazer]

I know already that I am enslaved by those who run the ruling systems in the world (for example, I can't move from one place to another if I don't get their permission first). So I would be a real naive person if I don't mind seeing also myself as a slave in a Supernatural Kingdom.

Why do you think that the kingdom of God in heaven will be anything like the kingdom of God on earth?

 

[KerimF]

Why do you think that the kingdom of God in heaven will be anything like the kingdom of God on earth?

Whenever/wherever there are imposed rules to obey (of a law, said of god or man), there are masters and slaves (followers/believers in modern terms).

God's Spiritual Realm (the Realm of the One Will of Creation) is on Earth as in Heaven. In this Realm, there is no imposed law but True Unlimited Love only. Even the chemical love, when imposed in the material world, can be called anything but real love.

 

[Muffled]

What the quran say in the verse Surah 4:171 is this

I believe the "only a messenger" is actually "a Messenger in the original text. I believe the only was added by a biased translator.

I believe the text reads God is His Son and the may it never be was added by a biased translator.

 

[Muffled]

I would also like to know if there is such scripture, because Bible has Jesus saying this:

...the Father is greater than I.
John 14:28

‘

I believe He is greater and equal at the same time. If that does not boggle your mind nothing will.

 

[Muffled]

Even in the material world, one may say: "I and my wife are one."
Does this mean the man is equal to his wife?!
Could you guess what it means?
If not, I am afraid that you also cannot understand, what Jesus meant when he says: "I and my Father are one.

I believe the context shows what is meant. Jesus is establishing His identity as God.

 

[KerimF]

I believe the context shows what is meant. Jesus is establishing His identity as God.

Now the real question is: What is, in your mind in the least, the best image of God?
For example, could it be of a supernatural one being?
Please ignore what I wrote if the word 'God' doesn't mean anything in your reality.