“The Son is equal to his Father”

[Ebionite]

‘I Am’ is not a NAME.

You have no explanation for the text which implies that it is.

 

[Muffled]

I think it is illogical to say they are equal, if Jesus is subjugated to God.

I believe I do the same thing. I use my first name in a lesser environment than my signature name which is used in a formal environment. I believe the names an roles are different but God is the same no matter what person He is in.

 

[Ajax]

Of course, that is easy for you to say since your didn’t suffer with the sins of humanity. Your right to believe that but I wouldn’t subscribe to that since you have no idea what the sins of the world would do to a body.

There are absolutely no health problems attributed to sins. You can be a sinner as much as you wish and there will be no problem with your health, if you take the right precautions. Unless you think that God will punish you with health/body problems if you are one. The concept of sin and its impact on health and lifespan is a fallacy based on the individual's beliefs and religious backgrounds. Anyway a God who can resurrect himself would have no problems whatsoever with any petty problems like sins.

Again… I hear you, but which martyr prayed to where capillaries burst and mixed with their efforts?

According to the Christian tradition martyrs had much worse torture than what Jesus had. Also an expert in torturing and ..cooking steaks was the Church.

No or, at least, it would be a very small group that believes that since Isaiah 53 says differently, along with 1st John 2:2, Col 2:14 along with the type an shadow presented with the two goats to the high priest once a year

As I said sins have no impact on the body. The bible says only that the wages of sin is death. That's why sinful people sacrificed animals to get the sin out of them...as they thought at the time.

But you didn't reply to me on two items. Firstly, how is it possible that a God does not want to execute His -before the foundation of the world - plan, shakes, prays (to whom?), sweats, fears and needs angels to support him psychologically, especially when he knows that he will easily defeat Satan, free all people from sins and will be resurrected in three days.
And secondly did you find any evidence that Jesus was tormented in hell? Tip: I don't think you will find any.

 

[Soapy]

I believe I go by the definition of a person is one who has personality. ie personal characteristics like love.

What are you talking about??

The point is that ‘GOD THE FATHER’ is not a term … It is ‘God, the Father’, which is to say:

• ‘God, WHO IS, ‘THE FATHER’
• God, who is known also as, The Father’

The comma is a separator that shows unwritten or spoken words that point to the description.
The comma acts as a micro break in speech where the words, ‘who is’ would otherwise be spoken (Name […] Descriptor/Label):

• ‘John, the Baptiser’
• ‘Jesus, the Christ’
• ‘Satan, the opposer [to righteousness]’
• ‘Simon, the Fisherman’

So, ‘God, who is, the Saviour’ (the commas here act as a bracket to replace the single comma after the name and before the descriptor/Label.

Yhwh, the Mighty God.

The capital ‘M’ is used to EMPHASISE the mightiness… it’s just GRAMMAR.. and it aids understanding and where stress on a word may usefully be made for emphasis.

One of the problems with the English language is that it is way too fluid. Errors of interpretation are accepted because it is assumed that the understanding is clear. Theses errors are then duplicated and become normalised. And then again, as lazy writers and speakers ignore grammar rules, it’s hard to tell them they are in error… The result being that great line:

• ‘Words mean what I want them to mean’!!!

 

[Soapy]

I believe I do the same thing. I use my first name in a lesser environment than my signature name which is used in a formal environment.

I believe the names an roles are different but God is the same no matter what person He is in.

That’s silly!!!

YHWH is GOD… of course he is the same no matter who He is in… or wasn’t that what you meant!!!!!!?????

YHWH is the Father. He is GOD.
JESUS is the [spiritual] SON OF YHWH…

Yhwh is in Jesus by means of HIS (The Father / YHWH’s) Spirit of holiness.

Yhwh is in all those who are His by means of His Spirit of holiness.

OF COURSE He is the SAME YHWH…!!!!!

 

[Eli G]

There are absolutely no health problems attributed to sins. You can be a sinner as much as you wish and there will be no problem with your health, if you take the right precautions.
...
As I said sins have no impact on the body. The bible says only that the wages of sin is death. That's why sinful people sacrificed animals to get the sin out of them...as they thought at the time.
...

That is not what real life shows. We all know that failling to complain with the right rules is the reason of human evils such as diseases ...
You seem to be the only one who doesn't realize that.

Sin is missing the target, defects that brings bad consequences.

A simple example: anger causes brain and heart attacks.

 

[Eli G]

First of all let's clarify a few things if you want to have a proper discussion..

1) The book of Isaiah (...) there is evidence that much of it was composed during the Babylonian captivity (after 600 BCE) and later. Furthermore it is written by two or three authors. ...

That was an especulation of old critics of the Bible that has already been discarded.
The whole book of Isaiah has one single writer.

 

[Ajax]

That is not what real life shows. We all know that failling to complain with the right rules is the reason of human evils such as diseases ...
You seem to be the only one who doesn't realize that.

Sin is missing the target, defects that brings bad consequences.

A simple example: anger causes brain and heart attacks.

Anger comes from the brain and is not considered a "serious" sin. How could it, if it originates from one's brain. But sleeping with hundreds of married men or women causes nothing..

 

[Eli G]

Anger comes from the brain and is not considered a "serious" sin. How could it, if it originates from one's brain. But sleeping with hundreds of married men or women causes nothing..

So, are you the one to teach us what a sin is?

 

[Ajax]

That was an especulation of old critics of the Bible that has already been discarded.
The whole book of Isaiah has one single writer.

This is completely untrue. Although the book primarily centers around the messages and teachings that God gave to the people of Israel through the prophet Isaiah ben Amoz, the scholarly consensus is that the book of Isaiah was not written by its namesake prophet single handedly. The book covers an expansive period of time—compiled over a period of approximately two centuries, which seems to point to it being a composition of several major prophets or writers active during this period of Israel’s history. One of the major ways scholars discuss the authorship of Isaiah is by dividing the text into three distinct sections: Proto-Isaiah (chapters 1-39), Deutero-Isaiah (40-55), and Trito-Isaiah (56-66). The three sections are sometimes referred to as simply First Isaiah, Second Isaiah, and Third Isaiah respectively. (This three-part division is different from the common two-part way which focuses on literary characteristics of the book.

Also do you know when Isaiah lived? In the 8th century BC. Do you know when Babylon attacked Judea and captured it's people? In various stages between 597-582 BC.
How did Isaiah write this then?
"This is what the Lord says— your Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel: ‘For your sake I will send to Babylon and bring down as fugitives all the Babylonians,
in the ships in which they took pride. I am the Lord, your Holy One, Israel’s Creator, your King.’” —Isaiah 43:14

 

[Ajax]

So, are you the one to teach us what a sin is?

I have no such wish at all...But I don't like imaginable excuses.. See how many criminals live in the unhealthy jails for many, many years.
And don't forget Jesus was also angered a few times. Does this make him a sinner?

 

[Eli G]

This is completely untrue. Although the book primarily centers around the messages and teachings that God gave to the people of Israel through the prophet Isaiah ben Amoz, the scholarly consensus is that the book of Isaiah was not written by its namesake prophet single handedly. The book covers an expansive period of time—compiled over a period of approximately two centuries, which seems to point to it being a composition of several major prophets or writers active during this period of Israel’s history. One of the major ways scholars discuss the authorship of Isaiah is by dividing the text into three distinct sections: Proto-Isaiah (chapters 1-39), Deutero-Isaiah (40-55), and Trito-Isaiah (56-66). The three sections are sometimes referred to as simply First Isaiah, Second Isaiah, and Third Isaiah respectively. (This three-part division is different from the common two-part way which focuses on literary characteristics of the book.
...

Isaiah lived at least 170 years before Babylon attacking Jerusalem, in the days of King Uzziah and three more kings after him, and served as prophet for about 40 years. This data is based on a trustful chronology based on the information recorded in the Bible itself, not on especulation of the Bible's haters who want to make belief that it is impossible for a man to get information from God about the future.

Of course, if someone does not believe in God, that person can't believe in prophecies either. However, I have known atheists who believe in parallel worlds and visits between worlds... It is amazing how men deceive themselves, while at the same time not realizing how contradictory they can be, and childish in their thoughts, only for not wanting to accept the existence of God.

 

[Eli G]

I have no such wish at all...But I don't like imaginable excuses...

Hehehe ... excuses to whom about what?

 

[Ajax]

Hehehe ... excuses to whom about what?

About you bringing up anger as a sin. You didn't reply though to my question..Jesus was angered, was he a sinner?

 

[Eli G]

About you bringing up anger as a sin. You didn't reply though to my question..Jesus was angered, was he a sinner?

You are right about that. I should have clarified that I was referring to violent outbursts of anger.

 

[Ajax]

Isaiah lived at least 170 years before Babylon attacking Jerusalem, in the days of King Uzziah and three more kings after him, and served as prophet for about 40 years. This data is based on a trustful chronology based on the information recorded in the Bible itself, not on especulation of the Bible's haters who want to make belief that it is impossible for a man to get information from God about the future.

That's exactly what I'm saying. That Isaiah lived approx 200 years before Babylon. If you suggest that God told him about the future events with Babylon, then bring in your evidence. "Prophecies" can be extremely manipulated. Take for example Isaiah 7:14 which is one of the most manipulated "prophecy".

Of course, if someone does not believe in God, that person can't believe in prophecies either. However, I have known atheists who believe in parallel worlds and visits between worlds... It is amazing how men deceive themselves, while at the same time not realizing how contradictory they can be, and childish in their thoughts, only for not wanting to accept the existence of God.

All religions have prophecies. I on the other hand find amazing how fundamentalists can not use logic and have no common sense to distinguish what is true and what is a lie in scriptures.

 

[Ajax]

You are right about that. I should have clarified that I was referring to violent outbursts of anger.

If they are violent outbursts, then we are talking about violence as a sin. Jesus was violent also when he used his whip..

 

[Eli G]

If they are violent outbursts, then we are talking about violence as a sin. Jesus was violent also when he used his whip..

Thanks for your opinion. It is irrelevant about the sin and its consequences... It doesn't change anything.

Everyone knows that bad behaviour has consequences... Do you have children?

 

[Eli G]

... fundamentalists can not use logic and have no common sense to distinguish what is true and what is a lie in scriptures.

What you consider "fundamentalism" is up to you and intranscendental.

 

[Ajax]

Thanks for your opinion. It is irrelevant about the sin and its consequences... It doesn't change anything.

Everyone knows that bad behaviour has consequences... Do you have children?

That's how our conversation started though with the sin and its consequences. I do appreciate that bad behaviour has consequences in the world for most people, but some get away with "murder". Take Putin for example.
Please note that I'm not against your beliefs. Everyone is entitled to his/her own. We are only discussing our differences of opinion.

Yes I have one boy.