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13:7 implies there is a guide living right now.

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وَجَاءَتْ كُلُّ نَفْسٍ مَعَهَا سَائِقٌ وَشَهِيدٌ | Every soul will come accompanied by a driver and a witness: | Qaaf : 21

وَجَاهِدُوا فِي اللَّهِ حَقَّ جِهَادِهِ ۚ هُوَ اجْتَبَاكُمْ وَمَا جَعَلَ عَلَيْكُمْ فِي الدِّينِ مِنْ حَرَجٍ ۚ مِلَّةَ أَبِيكُمْ إِبْرَاهِيمَ ۚ هُوَ سَمَّاكُمُ الْمُسْلِمِينَ مِنْ قَبْلُ وَفِي هَٰذَا لِيَكُونَ الرَّسُولُ شَهِيدًا عَلَيْكُمْ وَتَكُونُوا شُهَدَاءَ عَلَى النَّاسِ ۚ فَأَقِيمُوا الصَّلَاةَ وَآتُوا الزَّكَاةَ وَاعْتَصِمُوا بِاللَّهِ هُوَ مَوْلَاكُمْ ۖ فَنِعْمَ الْمَوْلَىٰ وَنِعْمَ النَّصِيرُ | And wage jihad for the sake of Allah, a jihad which is worthy of Him. He has chosen you and has not placed for you any obstacle in the religion, the faith of your father, Abraham. He named you ‘Muslims’ before, and in this, so that the Apostle may be a witness to you, and that you may be witnesses to mankind. So maintain the prayer, give the zakat, and hold fast to Allah. He is your master—an excellent master and an excellent helper. | Al-Hajj : 78

2ـ الْحُسَيْنُ بْنُ مُحَمَّدٍ عَنْ مُعَلَّى بْنِ مُحَمَّدٍ عَنِ الْحَسَ
نِ بْنِ عَلِيٍّ الْوَشَّاءِ عَنْ أَحْمَدَ بْنِ عَائِذٍ عَنْ عُمَرَ بْنِ أُذَيْنَةَ عَنْ بُرَيْدٍ الْعِجْلِيِّ قَالَ سَأَلْتُ أَبَا عَبْدِ الله (عَلَيْهِ السَّلام) عَنْ قَوْلِ الله عَزَّ وَجَلَّ وَكَذلِكَ جَعَلْناكُمْ أُمَّةً وَسَطاً لِتَكُونُوا شُهَداءَ عَلَى النَّاسِ قَالَ نَحْنُ الامَّةُ الْوُسْطَى وَنَحْنُ شُهَدَاءُ الله عَلَى خَلْقِهِ وَحُجَجُهُ فِي أَرْضِهِ قُلْتُ قَوْلَ الله عَزَّ وَجَلَّ مِلَّةَ أَبِيكُمْ إِبْراهِيمَ قَالَ إِيَّانَا عَنَى خَاصَّةً هُوَ سَمَّاكُمُ الْمُسْلِمِينَ مِنْ قَبْلُ فِي الْكُتُبِ الَّتِي مَضَتْ وَفِي هَذَا الْقُرْآنِ لِيَكُونَ الرَّسُولُ شَهِيداً عَلَيْكُمْ فَرَسُولُ الله (صَلَّى اللهُ عَلَيْهِ وَآلِه) الشَّهِيدُ عَلَيْنَا بِمَا بَلَّغَنَا عَنِ الله عَزَّ وَجَلَّ وَنَحْنُ الشُّهَدَاءُ عَلَى النَّاسِ فَمَنْ صَدَّقَ صَدَّقْنَاهُ يَوْمَ الْقِيَامَةِ وَمَنْ كَذَّبَ كَذَّبْنَاهُ يَوْمَ الْقِيَامَةِ.

2. Al-Husayn ibn Muhammad has narrated from Mu‘alla ibn Muhammad from al-Hassan ibn al-Washsha’ from Ahmad ibn ‘A’idh from ‘Umar ibn ’Udhayna from Buarayd al-‘Ili who has said that I asked Imam abu ‘Abdallah (a.s.) about the meaning of the words of Allah: “We have made you (true Muslims) a moderate nation so that you could be (witness) an example for all people and the Prophet (a witness) an example for you. . .” (2:143) The Imam (a.s.) said, “We are the moderate nation and we bear witness to the activities of the people for Allah and we possess Divine authority on earth.” I then asked about the meaning following verse of the holy Quran: “. . the noble religion of your father, Abraham. God named you Muslims before and in this Book, so that the Messenger will witness (your actions). .” (22:78) The word ‘your father’ refers to us particularly we were called Muslims in the heavenly books that were sent before as well as this book. The messenger of Allah bears witness over us by means of teaching us the guidance of Allah and bear witness over the people. Those who would acknowledge our authority, on the Day of Judgment, we will acknowledge their faith and those who would reject our Divine authority, one the Day of Judgment, we will refuse to acknowledge their faith.”

Al-Kāfi - Volume 1, The Imams (a.s.) are witness for Allah, the Most Holy, the Most High, over His creature, Hadith #2



And for the verse about a witness from him, I forgot to show hadiths:

3ـ وَبِهَذَا الاسْنَادِ عَنْ مُعَلَّى بْنِ مُحَمَّدٍ عَنِ الْحَسَنِ بْنِ عَلِيٍّ عَنْ أَحْمَدَ بْنِ عُمَرَ الْحَلالِ قَالَ سَأَلْتُ أَبَا الْحَسَنِ (عَلَيْهِ السَّلام) عَنْ قَوْلِ الله عَزَّ وَجَلَّ أَ فَمَنْ كانَ عَلى‏ بَيِّنَةٍ مِنْ رَبِّهِ وَيَتْلُوهُ شاهِدٌ مِنْهُ فَقَالَ أَمِيرُ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ صَلَوَاتُ الله عَلَيْهِ الشَّاهِدُ عَلَى رَسُولِ الله (صَلَّى اللهُ عَلَيْهِ وَآلِه) وَرَسُولُ الله (صَلَّى اللهُ عَلَيْهِ وَآلِه) عَلَى بَيِّنَةٍ مِنْ رَبِّهِ.

3. Through the same chain of narrators it is narrated from Mu‘allah ibn Muhammad from al-Hassan ibn Ali from Ahmad ibn ‘Umar al-Hallal who has said that he asked Imam abu al-Hassan (a.s.) about the meaning of the following verse of the holy Quran: “Should they be compared with those whose Lord has given them a guidance which is testified by a witness from among their own people . .” (11:17) The Imam (a.s.) said, “Amir al-Mu’minin Ali (a.s.) testified to support the holy Prophet (s.a.) and the holy Prophet received supporting evidence from his Lord.”

Al-Kāfi - Volume 1, The Imams (a.s.) are witness for Allah, the Most Holy, the Most High, over His creature, Hadith #3


4ـ عَلِيُّ بْنُ إِبْرَاهِيمَ عَنْ أَبِيهِ عَنْ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ أَبِي عُمَيْرٍ عَنِ ابْنِ أُذَيْنَةَ عَنْ بُرَيْدٍ الْعِجْلِيِّ قَالَ قُلْتُ لابي جعفر (عَلَيْهِ السَّلام) قَوْلَ الله تَبَارَكَ وَتَعَالَى وَكَذلِكَ جَعَلْناكُمْ أُمَّةً وَسَطاً لِتَكُونُوا شُهَداءَ عَلَى النَّاسِ وَيَكُونَ الرَّسُولُ عَلَيْكُمْ شَهِيداً قَالَ نَحْنُ الامَّةُ الْوَسَطُ وَنَحْنُ شُهَدَاءُ الله تَبَارَكَ وَتَعَالَى عَلَى خَلْقِهِ وَحُجَجُهُ فِي أَرْضِهِ قُلْتُ قَوْلَهُ تَعَالَى يا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا ارْكَعُوا وَاسْجُدُوا وَاعْبُدُوا رَبَّكُمْ وَافْعَلُوا الْخَيْرَ لَعَلَّكُمْ تُفْلِحُونَ وَجاهِدُوا فِي الله حَقَّ جِهادِهِ هُوَ اجْتَباكُمْ قَالَ إِيَّانَا عَنَى وَنَحْنُ الْمُجْتَبَوْنَ وَلَمْ يَجْعَلِ الله تَبَارَكَ وَتَعَالَى فِي الدِّينِ مِنْ حَرَجٍ فَالْحَرَجُ أَشَدُّ مِنَ الضِّيقِ مِلَّةَ أَبِيكُمْ إِبْراهِيمَ إِيَّانَا عَنَى خَاصَّةً وَسَمَّاكُمُ الْمُسْلِمِينَ الله سَمَّانَا الْمُسْلِمِينَ مِنْ قَبْلُ فِي الْكُتُبِ الَّتِي مَضَتْ وَفِي هَذَا الْقُرْآنِ لِيَكُونَ الرَّسُولُ شَهِيداً عَلَيْكُمْ وَتَكُونُوا شُهَداءَ عَلَى النَّاسِ فَرَسُولُ الله (صَلَّى اللهُ عَلَيْهِ وَآلِه) الشَّهِيدُ عَلَيْنَا بِمَا بَلَّغَنَا عَنِ الله تَبَارَكَ وَتَعَالَى وَنَحْنُ الشُّهَدَاءُ عَلَى النَّاسِ فَمَنْ صَدَّقَ يَوْمَ الْقِيَامَةِ صَدَّقْنَاهُ وَمَنْ كَذَّبَ كَذَّبْنَاهُ.

4. Ali ibn Ibrahim has narrated from his father from Muhammad Ibn Abi ‘Umayr from ibn ’dhayna from Yazid al-‘Ijli who has said that he asked Imam abu Ja’far (a.s.) about the meaning of the following verse of the Holy Quran. “We have made you a moderate/intermediate/middle course so that you could be a witness for all people and the Prophet (a witness) an witness for you. . .” (2:143) The Imam (a.s.) said, “We are the moderate/intermediate/middle course and we are the witness for Allah, the Most Holy, the Most High, over the activities of His creatures and possess His authority on earth.” I then asked about the meaning of the following verse of the Holy Quran that says, “Believers, worship your Lord, bow down and prostrate yourselves before Him and do virtuous deeds so that perhaps you will have everlasting happiness. (22:77) Strive steadfastly for the Cause of God. He has chosen you . Believers, worship your Lord, bow down and prostrate yourselves before Him and do virtuous deeds so that perhaps you will have everlasting happiness. (22:77) Strive steadfastly for the Cause of God. He has chosen you but has not imposed on you hardship in your religion, the noble religion of your father, Abraham. God named you Muslims before and in this Book, so that the Messenger will witness (your actions) and you will be the witness over mankind. The noble religion also is a reference to us. Allah has called us as Muslims in the heaven books that were revealed before and in this holy book (the Holy Quran) The Holy Prophet (s.a.) has testified in our favor by conveying the message of Allah, the Most Holy, the Most High. We bear witness to the activities and on the Day of Judgment certify the faith of those who have acknowledged our Divine authority and reject those who have rejected our Divine authority.”

Al-Kāfi - Volume 1, The Imams (a.s.) are witness for Allah, the Most Holy, the Most High, over His creature, Hadith #4

 

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وَكَذَٰلِكَ أَوْحَيْنَا إِلَيْكَ رُوحًا مِنْ أَمْرِنَا ۚ مَا كُنْتَ تَدْرِي مَا الْكِتَابُ وَلَا الْإِيمَانُ وَلَٰكِنْ جَعَلْنَاهُ نُورًا نَهْدِي بِهِ مَنْ نَشَاءُ مِنْ عِبَادِنَا ۚ وَإِنَّكَ لَتَهْدِي إِلَىٰ صِرَاطٍ مُسْتَقِيمٍ | Thus have We inspired to to you a Spirit of Our command. You did not know what the Book is, nor what is faith; but We made it a light that We may guide by its means whomever We wish of Our servants. Indeed, you guide to a straight path, | Ash-Shura : 52


2ـ مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ يَحْيَى عَنْ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ الْحُسَيْنِ عَنْ عَلِيِّ بْنِ أَسْبَاطٍ عَنْ أَسْبَاطِ بْنِ سَالِمٍ قَالَ سَأَلَهُ رَجُلٌ مِنْ أَهْلِ هِيتَ وَأَنَا حَاضِرٌ عَنْ قَوْلِ الله عَزَّ وَجَلَّ وَكَذلِكَ أَوْحَيْنا إِلَيْكَ رُوحاً مِنْ أَمْرِنا فَقَالَ مُنْذُ أَنْزَلَ الله عَزَّ وَجَلَّ ذَلِكَ الرُّوحَ عَلَى مُحَمَّدٍ (صَلَّى اللهُ عَلَيْهِ وَآلِه) مَا صَعِدَ إِلَى السَّمَاءِ وَإِنَّهُ لَفِينَا.

2. Muhammad ibn Yahya has narrated from Muhammad ibn al-Husayn from Ali ibn Asbat from Asbat ibn Salim who has said the following. “Once a man from Hayt (a town in Iraq) asked abu ‘Abdallah (a.s.), -when I was present also-, about the words of Allah, the Most Holy, the Most High. “Thus, We have revealed a Spirit to you, (Muhammad), by Our command. Before, you did not even know what a Book or Faith was, . .” (42:52) The Imam (a.s.) said, “From the day Allah, the Most Holy, the Most High, sent that Spirit to Muhammad (s.a.) it did not ever since ascent and it is present with us.”

Al-Kāfi - Volume 1, The Spirit with which the Imams (a.s.) are Protected, Hadith #2
3ـ عَلِيُّ بْنُ إِبْرَاهِيمَ عَنْ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ عِيسَى عَنْ يُونُسَ عَنِ ابْنِ مُسْكَانَ عَنْ أَبِي بَصِيرٍ قَالَ سَأَلْتُ أَبَا عَبْدِ الله (عَلَيْهِ السَّلام) عَنْ قَوْلِ الله عَزَّ وَجَلَّ يَسْئَلُونَكَ عَنِ الرُّوحِ قُلِ الرُّوحُ مِنْ أَمْرِ رَبِّي قَالَ خَلْقٌ أَعْظَمُ مِنْ جَبْرَئِيلَ وَمِيكَائِيلَ كَانَ مَعَ رَسُولِ الله (صَلَّى اللهُ عَلَيْهِ وَآلِه) وَهُوَ مَعَ الائِمَّةِ وَهُوَ مِنَ الْمَلَكُوتِ.

3. Ali ibn Ibrahim has narrated from Muhammad ibn ‘Isa from Yunus from ibn Muskan from abu Basir who has said the following. “I asked abu ‘Abdallah (a.s.) about the words of Allah, the Most Holy, the Most High. “They ask you about the Spirit. Say, “The Spirit comes by the command of my Lord. . .” (17:85). The Imam (a.s.) said, “It is a creature greater than Jibril and Mika’il. It was with the Messenger of Allah and it is present with the Imams and it is from the spiritual kingdom/realm.”

Al-Kāfi - Volume 1, The Spirit with which the Imams (a.s.) are Protected, Hadith #3


1ـ عِدَّةٌ مِنْ أَصْحَابِنَا عَنْ أَحْمَدَ بْنِ مُحَمَّدٍ عَنِ الْحُسَيْنِ بْنِ سَعِيدٍ عَنِ النَّضْرِ بْنِ سُوَيْدٍ عَنْ يَحْيَى الْحَلَبِيِّ عَنْ أَبِي الصَّبَّاحِ الْكِنَانِيِّ عَنْ أَبِي بَصِيرٍ قَالَ سَأَلْتُ أَبَا عَبْدِ الله (عَلَيْهِ السَّلام) عَنْ قَوْلِ الله تَبَارَكَ وَتَعَالَى وَكَذلِكَ أَوْحَيْنا إِلَيْكَ رُوحاً مِنْ أَمْرِنا ما كُنْتَ تَدْرِي مَا الْكِتابُ وَلا الايمانُ قَالَ خَلْقٌ مِنْ خَلْقِ الله عَزَّ وَجَلَّ أَعْظَمُ مِنْ جَبْرَئِيلَ وَمِيكَائِيلَ كَانَ مَعَ رَسُولِ الله (صَلَّى اللهُ عَلَيْهِ وَآلِه) يُخْبِرُهُ وَيُسَدِّدُهُ وَهُوَ مَعَ الائِمَّةِ مِنْ بَعْدِهِ.

1. A number of our people has narrated from Ahmad ibn Muhammad from al-Husayn ibn Sa‘id from al-Nadr ibn Suwayd from Yahya al-Halabi from abu ’al-Sabah al-Kinani from abu Basir who has said the following. “I asked abu ‘Abdallah (a.s.) about the words of Allah, the Most Holy, the Most High. “Thus, We have revealed a Spirit to you, (Muhammad), by Our command. Before, you did not even know what a Book or Faith was, . .” (42:52) The Imam (a.s.) said, “He is a creature of the creatures of Allah, the Most Holy, the Most High greater than Jibril and Mika’il. It was with the Messenger of Allah to give him news and protected him and it is with the Imams after the Messenger of Allah.”

Al-Kāfi - Volume 1, The Spirit with which the Imams (a.s.) are Protected, Hadith #1

 

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The spirit of the Command/Authority is the position that the Imam has a guide in the spiritual world. Mohammad (s) had this Job, and now Imam Mahdi (a) has it.
 

InvestigateTruth

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We are looking at what the verse is saying. The context is in conjunction with Mohammad only being able to warn such people and with the demand of proof from people already shown enough proof. The context is obviously about Mohammad being such a guide by addressing him as only a Warner.

It’s also in context of miracles being shown and so the guide is one who can perform miracles implying he is a living person who can show live miracles.

The interpretation is also supported by every Hadith about this verse from both Sunni and Shia sources including Zaidi sources.

Aside there’s a whole theme about a witness from every people which gives context for it to mean a living guide as a person.

Do you see how you come up with an idea to justify that actually, Imam Askari had a son, and is still alive?

Let's for the sake of argument say, Imam Askari had a Son and is alive.
How would this person now is a lead? Someone that is not among people to talk to them, or as you are saying to Perform Miracles as proof. How could this imaginary person, be a guide to Christians, Jews, Bahais, or even the Muslims? There are probably 80 million Muslims in Iran. How this imaginary person is the lead?
The lead is Mr. Khamenyee, who considers himself acting on behalf of this person who is hidden from people.

Beside this, show me, Hadithes that says, this person will be born but hidden before His rise. Can you?
 

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Beside this, show me, Hadithes that says, this person will be born but hidden before His rise. Can you?
The hadiths designating Al-Mahdi as son of Hassan Al-askari (a) (which has context of other Imams being son of previous Imams) all do that. There's many. Plus the hadiths I'm showing here are all indirect proof of that.
 

InvestigateTruth

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The hadiths designating Al-Mahdi as son of Hassan Al-askari (a) (which has context of other Imams being son of previous Imams) all do that. There's many. Plus the hadiths I'm showing here are all indirect proof of that.
There are some issues with that logic. Here are some of the problems with the belief that 11th Imam had a son, and has disappeared:

1. There are also Hadithes that says, Qaim will be born during the end time. What do you do with these Hadithes?

2. There are Hadithes, that says, the Qaim's Two disappearances happen after His rise (Not before). This Hadith is in contradiction with what you say, that Qaim was born, and disappeared before his rise. Do you understand this? How do you resolve this contradiction?

3. There is a verse in Quran that says, when God said, Imran will have a Son, who will be a prophet, it turned out that, Imran did not have a Son, who is a prophet. Instead Jesus is his grandson rather than his own son. There are Hadithes from your Imams, that refer to this verse, and then, they say, if we also told you that the 12th Imam is the Son of 11th Imam, but, it turned out, that this Son appears in future generations, you must not deny.
Why should there be such a Hadith, if the 12th Imam, was to be literally son of the 11th Imam? How would such a Hadith be a guide to you?
Notice that, in Qur'an it says, Mary, mother of Jesus was sister of Aaron, even though they live more than a thousand years apart. How are you so, sure, the Imams meant, that Qaim is literally son of the 11th Imam?

4. There are Hadithes that says, How long will be the duration of Qa'im's disappearances. for example, Imam Ali says 6 years. But none of those durations match with what Shia claims regarding the period the Qaim disappeared, whether short or long term disappearance. What are you going to do with these Hadithes?

5. There is a Hadith from Imam Ridha that saysz if God wanted to extend lifespan of anyone, for the needs of people, He would have extended lifespan of Muhammad. What is the intention of this Hadith, and how do you resolve the contradiction with long lifespan of Imam Qaim?

6. Why would God, increase lifespan of a man for over a thousand years, but keep him hidden, instead of creating a new man, in the later Age at the time that God wants to send Him to people?
Consider Jesus, being the promised Messiah to Jews, just as Qaim is promised one. But Jesus was just born, around the time, God wanted to make the Messiah manifest and rise, not that, Jesus was born 1000 years before the time of Rise of Messiah. Why would God do it diffently when it comes to the Qaim? Do you understand the question?

7. Quran says everything and every details is mentioned in the Quran. Therefore, when you say, Qaim will disappear for a long time, that must be in the Quran. Where in the Quran says that, there will be a Qaim, that will live more than a thousand years, and then he rises? Where in the Quran says, that the Qaim will be born, then He disappears twice before he rises?
But there are verses and Hadithes that reject such a belief:

It is recorded in Al-Kafi that Umm Hani has said the following. "I asked abu Ja'far Muhammad ibn Ali (a.s.) about the meaning of the words of Allah. "I do not swear by the orbiting (81:15) stars which are visible during the night (81:16) and sit during the day,. . ". (81:17)" She has said that then he said, "It refers to the Imam who will disappear in the year two hundred sixty then he will rise like a shooting star that shines during the dark night. If you would attain such time it will brighten your eyes with happiness.

Notice, the Hadith says, it refers to the Imam who disappears in the year 260AH, then He reappears during dark night! It was the 11th Imam who died in year 260 AH according to the established History. this is the meaning of your Imams disappears. It means your 11th Imam dies. And if you think Death of an Imam is not "Disappearance", here is a Hadith to prove it:

It is recorded in Al-Kafi that Ma‘ruf ibn
Kharrabudh narrated from abu Ja'far (a.s.) who has said the following. "We are only like the stars in the heavens. Whenever one star disappears another one comes in view until you will point out with your fingers and make a gesture with your necks. Allah will cause your star to disappear from your sight. The descendants of ‘Abd al-Muttalib will all look similar as such that one would not know which is which. When your star will reappear then you must give thanks to Allah."


Notice how clearly, in this Hadith, you can see by "disappearances of Imams" is meant their Death and leaving this world, not, that physically hiding somewhere in earth!

Now going back to the previous Hadith. Notice it says the Imam then appears in the dark night.
Notice carefully that, it does not say, the Imam appears shortly, after disappearance and then disappears again For the second time! How do you explain this Hadith and the verse that contradicts with the idea of two disappearances of the Qaim Befor His rise? What does dark night mean in this Hadith?


Try to answer these questions, so, you can see, and prove it to yourself if that belief is Imaginary ( ظن) or it is real.
 
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InvestigateTruth

Veteran Member
@Link

Do you think, God could expect people to believe in something that cannot be proven to be true? Specially when that belief is in contradiction with so many evidences? Would a fair and just God punish people for disbelieving something, that, cannot be proved to be true? What is ظن if this is not?
 
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Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
@Link

Do you think, God could expect people to believe in something that cannot be proven to be true? Specially when that belief is in contradiction with so many evidences? Would a fair and just God punish people for disbelieving something, that, cannot be proved to be true? What is ظن if this is not?
This is rich for the person who denies day of judgment and makes it about Bahaallah.
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
The Quran and hadiths are both clear that Imam Mahdi (a) is alive.
 

centoria

New Member
Yes, there must be a guide at all the time.
Why the Book of God, is not sufficient as the guide? Why is it that, the guide has to be someone who is alive all the time?

"And is it not sufficient for them that We revealed to you the Book which is recited to them? Indeed in that is a mercy and reminder for a people who believe." 29:51

"Or lest you say, "If only the Scripture had been revealed to us, we would have been better guided than they." So there has [now] come to you a clear evidence from your Lord and a guidance and mercy. Then who is more unjust than one who denies the verses of Allah and turns away from them? We will recompense those who turn away from Our verses with the worst of punishment for their having turned away." 6:157

I am sorry, but, your idea that the guide must be someone who is alive, clearly is rejected by these verses.

The only thing that needs to be considered, that for every Period there is a Book:

"We did send messengers before thee, and appointed for them wives and children: and it was never the part of a messenger to bring a sign except as Allah permitted (or commanded). For each period is a Book (revealed) Allah doth blot out or confirm what He pleaseth: with Him is the Mother of the Book" 13:38-39

The issue is, the Book has an expiration date. When that date comes, there is no benefit in the Ordinances of the Book:

ذَ ٰلِكَۖ وَمَن یُعَظِّمۡ شَعَـٰۤىِٕرَ ٱللَّهِ فَإِنَّهَا مِن تَقۡوَى ٱلۡقُلُوبِ
لَكُمۡ فِیهَا مَنَـٰفِعُ إِلَىٰۤ أَجَلࣲ مُّسَمࣰّى ثُمَّ مَحِلُّهَاۤ إِلَى ٱلۡبَیۡتِ ٱلۡعَتِیقِ

" Indeed, those who reverence the Rites decreed by GOD demonstrate the righteousness of their hearts. In them are benefits to an Appointed Time, then their place is to the ancient House” 22:33

Once the appointed time comes, there is no benefits, then those Rites are referred to the ancient house. And you know what Ancient House is?
It is the place, where the Revelations had come from, in the first place. Meaning from the Heaven. The verse says, after the Appointed Time, it goes back to heaven, where it had come from. Dont you see, how this is exactly what 70:4 and 32:5 said? Therefore how long was appointed for the Quran? Answer: 1000 years.
If the Quran which is the holy scripture in Islam, is for 1000 years ago, so Christianity & Judaism & their books should be obsolete! Thus the Baytul-Adl should be obsolete after 1000 years.
Who determines this 1000 years?!
Bab & Bahaullah, they claimed to be prophets & brought a book, so what was the result of their presence as a guide?
How should rules be passed on to next people in each religion, when someone says there is a hypothetical expiration date?!
But in the Quran, it is clearly stated we sent prophets to guide you (people).
It means for all time, there is a reliable & infallible guide to express various issues, so people can trust him & they can find the true way.

رُسُلًۭا مُّبَشِّرِينَ وَمُنذِرِينَ لِئَلَّا يَكُونَ لِلنَّاسِ عَلَى ٱللَّهِ حُجَّةٌۢ بَعْدَ ٱلرُّسُلِ ۚ وَكَانَ ٱللَّهُ عَزِيزًا حَكِيمًۭا (نساء-۱۶۵)
˹All were˺ messengers delivering good news and warnings so humanity should have no excuse before Allah after ˹the coming of˺ the messengers. And Allah is Almighty, All-Wise.(4-165)

مَنِ ٱهْتَدَىٰ فَإِنَّمَا يَهْتَدِى لِنَفْسِهِۦ ۖ وَمَن ضَلَّ فَإِنَّمَا يَضِلُّ عَلَيْهَا ۚ وَلَا تَزِرُ وَازِرَةٌۭ وِزْرَ أُخْرَىٰ ۗ وَمَا كُنَّا مُعَذِّبِينَ حَتَّىٰ نَبْعَثَ رَسُولًۭا(الإسراء-۱۵)
Whoever chooses to be guided, it is only for their own good. And whoever chooses to stray, it is only to their own loss. No soul burdened with sin will bear the burden of another. And We would never punish ˹a people˺ until We have sent a messenger ˹to warn them˺.(7-15)

وَلَقَدْ بَعَثْنَا فِى كُلِّ أُمَّةٍۢ رَّسُولًا أَنِ ٱعْبُدُوا۟ ٱللَّهَ وَٱجْتَنِبُوا۟ ٱلطَّـٰغُوتَ ۖ فَمِنْهُم مَّنْ هَدَى ٱللَّهُ وَمِنْهُم مَّنْ حَقَّتْ عَلَيْهِ ٱلضَّلَـٰلَةُ ۚ فَسِيرُوا۟ فِى ٱلْأَرْضِ فَٱنظُرُوا۟ كَيْفَ كَانَ عَـٰقِبَةُ ٱلْمُكَذِّبِينَ(النحل-۳۶)
We surely sent a messenger to every community, saying, “Worship Allah and shun false gods.” But some of them were guided by Allah, while others were destined to stray. So travel throughout the land and see the fate of the deniers!(16-36)
 

InvestigateTruth

Veteran Member
If the Quran which is the holy scripture in Islam, is for 1000 years ago, so Christianity & Judaism & their books should be obsolete! Thus the Baytul-Adl should be obsolete after 1000 years.
Who determines this 1000 years?!
It is not always 1000 years.
God, in each Book detemines how long the Book is meant for.
Once the expiration comes, God does not wait even one hour. At that moment, God sends a new Prophet, with a new Book.


"To every people is a term appointed: when their term is reached, not an hour can they cause delay, nor (an hour) can they advance (it in anticipation)
O children of Adam! Verily, there will come to you Messengers from amongst you, narrating unto you My Signs; then whoever fears Allah (refrains from evil) and does what is right (makes amends), there is no fear for them, nor shall they grieve"
7:34-35
Bab & Bahaullah, they claimed to be prophets & brought a book, so what was the result of their presence as a guide?

They revealed a Book suitable for our Time. A set of teachings which is the guide for our current Age, until when the next Manifestation comes, and announces that the End Time has come.

How should rules be passed on to next people in each religion, when someone says there is a hypothetical expiration date?!

It is not hypothetical. God reveals a Book for a period. Once that period ends, God reveals a new Book, thus, after Torah, Gospel was revealed. After the Gospel, the Quran was revealed. After the Quran, the Bayan, and after the Bayan, Aghdas was revealed. And after Aghdas, whatever Book, the next Manifestation will reveal.

But in the Quran, it is clearly stated we sent prophets to guide you (people).
It means for all time, there is a reliable & infallible guide to express various issues, so people can trust him & they can find the true way.

رُسُلًۭا مُّبَشِّرِينَ وَمُنذِرِينَ لِئَلَّا يَكُونَ لِلنَّاسِ عَلَى ٱللَّهِ حُجَّةٌۢ بَعْدَ ٱلرُّسُلِ ۚ وَكَانَ ٱللَّهُ عَزِيزًا حَكِيمًۭا (نساء-۱۶۵)
˹All were˺ messengers delivering good news and warnings so humanity should have no excuse before Allah after ˹the coming of˺ the messengers. And Allah is Almighty, All-Wise.(4-165)

مَنِ ٱهْتَدَىٰ فَإِنَّمَا يَهْتَدِى لِنَفْسِهِۦ ۖ وَمَن ضَلَّ فَإِنَّمَا يَضِلُّ عَلَيْهَا ۚ وَلَا تَزِرُ وَازِرَةٌۭ وِزْرَ أُخْرَىٰ ۗ وَمَا كُنَّا مُعَذِّبِينَ حَتَّىٰ نَبْعَثَ رَسُولًۭا(الإسراء-۱۵)
Whoever chooses to be guided, it is only for their own good. And whoever chooses to stray, it is only to their own loss. No soul burdened with sin will bear the burden of another. And We would never punish ˹a people˺ until We have sent a messenger ˹to warn them˺.(7-15)

وَلَقَدْ بَعَثْنَا فِى كُلِّ أُمَّةٍۢ رَّسُولًا أَنِ ٱعْبُدُوا۟ ٱللَّهَ وَٱجْتَنِبُوا۟ ٱلطَّـٰغُوتَ ۖ فَمِنْهُم مَّنْ هَدَى ٱللَّهُ وَمِنْهُم مَّنْ حَقَّتْ عَلَيْهِ ٱلضَّلَـٰلَةُ ۚ فَسِيرُوا۟ فِى ٱلْأَرْضِ فَٱنظُرُوا۟ كَيْفَ كَانَ عَـٰقِبَةُ ٱلْمُكَذِّبِينَ(النحل-۳۶)
We surely sent a messenger to every community, saying, “Worship Allah and shun false gods.” But some of them were guided by Allah, while others were destined to stray. So travel throughout the land and see the fate of the deniers!(16-36)

Whenevet a Prophet came at the End Time of previous Age, He left two things for the people. The Book that He revealed, and a number of promoters.
For example, when Jesus came, He revealed the Gospel, and the 12 apostles. When Muhammad came, He left the Quran, and the Imams.

See what Muhammad said Himself:

"I [Muhammad] left among you two treasures which, if you cling to them, you shall not be led into error after me. One of them is greater than the other: The book of God (Quran), which is a rope stretched from Heaven to Earth, and [the second one is] my progeny, my Ahl al-Bayt. These two shall not be parted until they return to the pool [of abundance in paradise, kawthar.[1]"

 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Salam

"the warner" is only a warner for what? "for the sign" that disbelievers were asking him, he can't prove it to them, only warn them through such signs.

It's obvious then by contextual rules of language "and for people is a guide", implies, the warner is such a guide. That implies there is a guide who can manifest such proof right now.

All hadiths from Prophet (s) or Imams (a) also confirm this, whether Sunni, Shiite Twelver, Zaidi sources. There is not a single hadith saying it's something else. Yes opinions of people sure, they differ upon it.

But not a single hadith exists from the Prophet (s) or Imams (a) saying otherwise.

I have shown very little of these hadiths. There are a lot more.
 

InvestigateTruth

Veteran Member
Salam

"the warner" is only a warner for what? "for the sign" that disbelievers were asking him, he can't prove it to them, only warn them through such signs.

It's obvious then by contextual rules of language "and for people is a guide", implies, the warner is such a guide. That implies there is a guide who can manifest such proof right now.

All hadiths from Prophet (s) or Imams (a) also confirm this, whether Sunni, Shiite Twelver, Zaidi sources. There is not a single hadith saying it's something else. Yes opinions of people sure, they differ upon it.

But not a single hadith exists from the Prophet (s) or Imams (a) saying otherwise.

I have shown very little of these hadiths. There are a lot more.

The Guides are pre-existent.
The 12th Imam was in the city of Jabulqa.
Once the guidence from Ummah of Islam was gone, and end of Ummah came, People needed the new Guide to establish the true Religion again.
A Day or 1000 years was appointed for the Dispensation of Quran. Thus, that period ended, Ummah of Islam's was expired, and the Qaim came from the City of Jabulqa.
I will make a separate Thread for the Time and year of Rise of Qaim.
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
This is from a dua taught by Imam Reda (a) for Imam Mahdi (a) Ghayba period which is from a very reliable short chain to him:



اَللَّهُمَّ ٱسْلُكْ بِنَا عَلَىٰ يَدَيْهِ
allahumma isluk bina `ala yadayhi
O Allah, lead us at his hands

مِنْهَاجَ ٱلْهُدَى
minhaja alhuda
to the course of guidance,

وَٱلْمَحَجَّةَ ٱلْعُظْمَى
walmahajjata al`uzma
the greatest Path,

وَٱلطَّرِيقَةَ ٱلْوُسْطَى
walttariqata alwusta
and the equitable way of life

ٱلَّتِي يَرْجِعُ إِلَيْهَا ٱلْغَالِي
allati yarji`u ilayha alghali
to which those who had gone too far will come back (repentant)

وَيَلْحَقُ بِهَا ٱلتَّالِي
wa yalhaqu biha alttali
and those who had fallen down will catch up.

وَقَوِّنَا عَلَىٰ طَاعَتِهِ
wa qawwina `ala ta`atihi
And (please) encourage us to carry out acts of obedience to him,

وَثَبِّتْنَا عَلَىٰ مُشَايَعَتِهِ
wa thabbitna `ala mushaya`atihi
make us stand firmly in following him,

وَٱمْنُنْ عَلَيْنَا بِمُتَابَعَتِهِ
wamunu `alayna bimutaba`atihi
endue us with the favor of adherence to him,

وَٱجْعَلْنَا فِي حِزْبِهِ ٱلْقَوَّامِينَ بِأَمْرِهِ
waj`alna fi hizbihi alqawwamina bi'amrihi
and include us with his group who achieve his commands,

ٱلصَّابِرِينَ مَعَهُ
alssabirina ma`ahu
act steadfastly towards him,

ٱلطَّالِبِينَ رِضَاكَ بِمُنَاصَحَتِهِ
alttalibina ridaka bimunasahatihi
and seek Your pleasure by means of acting sincerely to him,

حَتَّىٰ تَحْشُرَنَا يَوْمَ ٱلْقِيَامَةِ فِي أَنْصَارِهِ
hatta tahshurana yawma alqiyamati fi ansarihi
so that You will gather us on the Resurrection Day with his supporters,

وَأَعْوَانِهِ وَمُقَوِّيَةِ سُلْطَانِهِ
wa a`wanihi wa muqawwiyati sultanihi
backers, and those who consolidate his authority.

اَللَّهُمَّ وَٱجْعَلْ ذٰلِكَ لَنَا
allahumma waj`al dhalika lana
O Allah, make us do all these things

خَالِصاً مِنْ كُلِّ شَكٍّ وَشُبْهَةٍ
khalisan min kulli shakkin wa shubhatin
free from any doubt, confusion,

وَرِيَاءٍ وَسُمْعَةٍ
wa riya'in wa sum`atin
ostentation, and seeking of reputation

حَتَّىٰ لاَ نَعْتَمِدَ بِهِ غَيْرَكَ
hatta la na`tamida bihi ghayraka
so that we will rely upon none save You

وَلاَ نَطْلُبَ بِهِ إِلاَّ وَجْهَكَ
wa la natluba bihi illa wajhaka
and seek none save Your sake

وَحَتَّىٰ تُحِلَّنَا مَحَلَّهُ
wa hatta tuhillana mahallahu
and that You will put us up in his vicinity

وَتَجْعَلَنَا فِي ٱلْجَنَّةِ مَعَهُ
wa taj`alana filjannati ma`ahu
and place us with him in Paradise.

وَأَعِذْنَا مِنَ ٱلسَّأْمَةِ وَٱلْكَسَلِ وَٱلْفَتْرَةِ
wa a`idhna min alssa'mati walkasali walfatrati
And (please) protect us against weariness, laziness and lethargy

وَٱجْعَلْنَا مِمَّنْ تَنْتَصِرُ بِهِ لِدِينِكَ
waj`alna mimman tantasiru bihi lidinika
and include us with those whom You take up for backing Your religion

وَتُعِزُّ بِهِ نَصْرَ وَلِيِّكَ
wa tu`izzu bihi nasra waliyyika
and for increasing the victory of Your vicegerent.

وَلاَ تَسْتَبْدِلْ بِنَا غَيْرَنَا
wa la tastabdil bina ghayrana
Do not put others in our places,

فَإِنَّ ٱسْتِبْدَالَكَ بِنَا غَيْرَنَا عَلَيْكَ يَسِيرٌ
fa'inna istibdalaka bina ghayrana `alayka yasirun
because it is easy for You to put others in our places,

وَهُوَ عَلَيْنَا كَثِيـرٌ
wa huwa `alayna kathirun
but it is extremely difficult for us if You do it.
 

InvestigateTruth

Veteran Member
This is from a dua taught by Imam Reda (a) for Imam Mahdi (a) Ghayba period which is from a very reliable short chain to him:



اَللَّهُمَّ ٱسْلُكْ بِنَا عَلَىٰ يَدَيْهِ
allahumma isluk bina `ala yadayhi
O Allah, lead us at his hands

مِنْهَاجَ ٱلْهُدَى
minhaja alhuda
to the course of guidance,

وَٱلْمَحَجَّةَ ٱلْعُظْمَى
walmahajjata al`uzma
the greatest Path,

وَٱلطَّرِيقَةَ ٱلْوُسْطَى
walttariqata alwusta
and the equitable way of life

ٱلَّتِي يَرْجِعُ إِلَيْهَا ٱلْغَالِي
allati yarji`u ilayha alghali
to which those who had gone too far will come back (repentant)

وَيَلْحَقُ بِهَا ٱلتَّالِي
wa yalhaqu biha alttali
and those who had fallen down will catch up.

وَقَوِّنَا عَلَىٰ طَاعَتِهِ
wa qawwina `ala ta`atihi
And (please) encourage us to carry out acts of obedience to him,

وَثَبِّتْنَا عَلَىٰ مُشَايَعَتِهِ
wa thabbitna `ala mushaya`atihi
make us stand firmly in following him,

وَٱمْنُنْ عَلَيْنَا بِمُتَابَعَتِهِ
wamunu `alayna bimutaba`atihi
endue us with the favor of adherence to him,

وَٱجْعَلْنَا فِي حِزْبِهِ ٱلْقَوَّامِينَ بِأَمْرِهِ
waj`alna fi hizbihi alqawwamina bi'amrihi
and include us with his group who achieve his commands,

ٱلصَّابِرِينَ مَعَهُ
alssabirina ma`ahu
act steadfastly towards him,

ٱلطَّالِبِينَ رِضَاكَ بِمُنَاصَحَتِهِ
alttalibina ridaka bimunasahatihi
and seek Your pleasure by means of acting sincerely to him,

حَتَّىٰ تَحْشُرَنَا يَوْمَ ٱلْقِيَامَةِ فِي أَنْصَارِهِ
hatta tahshurana yawma alqiyamati fi ansarihi
so that You will gather us on the Resurrection Day with his supporters,

وَأَعْوَانِهِ وَمُقَوِّيَةِ سُلْطَانِهِ
wa a`wanihi wa muqawwiyati sultanihi
backers, and those who consolidate his authority.

اَللَّهُمَّ وَٱجْعَلْ ذٰلِكَ لَنَا
allahumma waj`al dhalika lana
O Allah, make us do all these things

خَالِصاً مِنْ كُلِّ شَكٍّ وَشُبْهَةٍ
khalisan min kulli shakkin wa shubhatin
free from any doubt, confusion,

وَرِيَاءٍ وَسُمْعَةٍ
wa riya'in wa sum`atin
ostentation, and seeking of reputation

حَتَّىٰ لاَ نَعْتَمِدَ بِهِ غَيْرَكَ
hatta la na`tamida bihi ghayraka
so that we will rely upon none save You

وَلاَ نَطْلُبَ بِهِ إِلاَّ وَجْهَكَ
wa la natluba bihi illa wajhaka
and seek none save Your sake

وَحَتَّىٰ تُحِلَّنَا مَحَلَّهُ
wa hatta tuhillana mahallahu
and that You will put us up in his vicinity

وَتَجْعَلَنَا فِي ٱلْجَنَّةِ مَعَهُ
wa taj`alana filjannati ma`ahu
and place us with him in Paradise.

وَأَعِذْنَا مِنَ ٱلسَّأْمَةِ وَٱلْكَسَلِ وَٱلْفَتْرَةِ
wa a`idhna min alssa'mati walkasali walfatrati
And (please) protect us against weariness, laziness and lethargy

وَٱجْعَلْنَا مِمَّنْ تَنْتَصِرُ بِهِ لِدِينِكَ
waj`alna mimman tantasiru bihi lidinika
and include us with those whom You take up for backing Your religion

وَتُعِزُّ بِهِ نَصْرَ وَلِيِّكَ
wa tu`izzu bihi nasra waliyyika
and for increasing the victory of Your vicegerent.

وَلاَ تَسْتَبْدِلْ بِنَا غَيْرَنَا
wa la tastabdil bina ghayrana
Do not put others in our places,

فَإِنَّ ٱسْتِبْدَالَكَ بِنَا غَيْرَنَا عَلَيْكَ يَسِيرٌ
fa'inna istibdalaka bina ghayrana `alayka yasirun
because it is easy for You to put others in our places,

وَهُوَ عَلَيْنَا كَثِيـرٌ
wa huwa `alayna kathirun
but it is extremely difficult for us if You do it.

So, when you read this prayer as an individual, what happens? Practically speaking, what happens?
 

Link

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So, when you reas this prayer as an individual, what happens? Practically speaking, what happens?
A Shiite sure way to not see Imam Mahdi (a) again is to talk about his meeting Imam Mahdi (a) experiences in public. Don't bother people with such questions. it's not fair to them and not fair for yourself to despair and impose disbelief of all by circular reasoning.
 

InvestigateTruth

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A Shiite sure way to not see Imam Mahdi (a) again is to talk about his meeting Imam Mahdi (a) experiences in public. Don't bother people with such questions. it's not fair to them and not fair for yourself to despair and impose disbelief of all by circular reasoning.

To me, even from this prayer it is clear:


ٱلطَّالِبِينَ رِضَاكَ بِمُنَاصَحَتِهِ
alttalibina ridaka bimunasahatihi
and seek Your pleasure by means of acting sincerely to him,

حَتَّىٰ تَحْشُرَنَا يَوْمَ ٱلْقِيَامَةِ فِي أَنْصَارِهِ
hatta tahshurana yawma alqiyamati fi ansarihi
so that You will gather us on the Resurrection Day with his supporters,


Day of Resurrection, is Day of appearance of the Qaim, and Ummah prays, that, on the Day of His rise, you act sincerely towards Him.

How could anyone who reads this prayer not see that? God, what have you done to them? You have put a veil on their eyes!
 

InvestigateTruth

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176- Al-Kafi: It is narrated from Ali bin Muhammad from Salih bin Abi
Hammad from Muhammad bin Abdullah bin Mahran from Abdul Malik bin Bashir
from Itham bin Sulaiman from Muawiyah bin Ammar from Abi Abdullah Imam Ja’far Sadiq (a.s.) that he said:

If one of you is desirous to see the period of Imam Qaim (a.s.) he should also pray for his deliverance, because the Almighty Allah has sent Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w.s.) as mercy and kindness and He would send Imam Qaim(a.s.) for severity.”

Hint: in this Hadith, Sadiq is making a direct comparison between Muhammad and the Qaim. What does that tell us?


Muhammad bin Isa from Uthman bin Isa Kilabi from Khalid bin Najih from Zurarah bin Ayyan that he said: I heard Abi Abdullah (a.s.) say:

“There is an occultation for the Qaim before his reappearance.”
I asked: “Why is it so?” He replied: “He is fearful.” And he pointed towards his belly, implying that the Qaim fears for his life. Then he said: “O Zurarah; and he is that awaited one and he is the one in whose birth they shall doubt. Thus some
will say: His father died heirless and some will say: He was in the womb of his mother when his father died. Some others will allege that he was born two years before the passing away of his father. And he is the Awaited one;
but the Almighty Allah likes to test the Shia. It is the time when people of falsehood will fall in doubts.”

Zurarah says: I asked: “If I am able to live till that period, what action I should perform?”
He replied: “O Zurarah if you live till that time you must recite the following supplication:

اللهم عرفني نفسك، فإنك إن لم تعرفني نفسك لم أعرف نبيك، اللهم عرفني رسولك فإنك إن لم تعرفني رسولك لم أعرف حجتك اللهم عرفني حجتك فإنك إن لم تعرفني حجتك ضللت عن ديني

O Allah Make Yourself known to me. For if You don’t make Yourself known to me, I will not recognize Your Prophet. O Allah make your Messenger known to me for if You don’t make your Messenger known to me, I will not recognize Your Proof. O Allah make Your proof known to me for if You don’t make Your proof known to me, I will deviate in my religion.’


Notice, even it was not possible for Zurarah to live till the time of Qaim's appearance, yet, Sadiq teaches him what to pray.
Why?

But such Prayers are meant to give hints that only if one pays close attention will get them. Here are some of the hints from the Prayer:

1. The time of Appearance of the Qaim, is, the same as Meeting and Knowing God, as the prayer says:

"O Allah Make Yourself known to me." Which is Day of Meeting with God.

2. The Qaim is a Prophet:

"For if You don’t make Yourself known to me, I will not recognize Your Prophet"

Which Prophet is this that will not be recognized? Muhammad? Was not Zurarah already a Muslim? Would non-Muslims read this prayer?

3. It wouldn't be easy to recognize the Qa'im, and that's why you would need to pray to God to let you know Him, and guide you towards Him.
 
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InvestigateTruth

Veteran Member
مراقبة ساعة خير من عبادة سبعين سنة

Careful observation for one Hour is better than Sevety years of worship

تفكر ساعة خير من عبادة سنة

Contemplation for one hour is better than a year of worship


"One tradition, which you comprehend well, is better than ten you narrate. Verily, every truth has a reality and every veracity has an illumination.”
Then he said:
“We, by Allah, do not consider a man from our Shia to be a Faqih unless when he is addressed through hints and allusions, he understands them. "

- Sadiq
 
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