2000 yrs old men?

[Sweetvoice]

Matthew 16 vs 28: I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."

Who are there? Are they even people who are more than 2000 years old now, since Jesus's kingdom is not here yet. Or should I read this allegorically other than literally.

What you think?

 

[Green Kepi]

Matthew 16 vs 28: I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."

Who are there? Are they even people who are more than 2000 years old now, since Jesus's kingdom is not here yet. Or should I read this allegorically other than literally.

What you think?

Jesus' Kingdom came in the form of the Church. Notice Acts 1:3 (not here yet), Matt. 4:7 (not here yet), Matt. 6:10 (still not here), Matt. 7:21 (not here yet), Matt. 10:7 and Matt. 16:18 (still not here), John 18:36, Luke 23:51, Mark 1:14-15; 9:1 (still not here...

THEN...notice...something happens...Jesus says, Acts 1:3 - "Go wait for me". Now...Acts 2:47 - something has changed. Acts 14:22...IT"S HERE NOW. COL. 1:13, Hebs. 1:8...something happened in Acts 2...before it was always future...then it turned to present tense! MEANING...His Kingdom is HERE...the CHURCH....

 

[Sweetvoice]

Jesus' Kingdom came in the form of the Church. Notice Acts 1:3 (not here yet), Matt. 4:7 (not here yet), Matt. 6:10 (still not here), Matt. 7:21 (not here yet), Matt. 10:7 and Matt. 16:18 (still not here), John 18:36, Luke 23:51, Mark 1:14-15; 9:1 (still not here...

THEN...notice...something happens...Jesus says, Acts 1:3 - "Go wait for me". Now...Acts 2:47 - something has changed. Acts 14:22...IT"S HERE NOW. COL. 1:13, Hebs. 1:8...something happened in Acts 2...before it was always future...then it turned to present tense! MEANING...His Kingdom is HERE...the CHURCH....

Ok that is alot for me to read. But yes, I have to read the bible allegorically - the church is the kingdom. And how old then was the people when Christ church was first built?

 

[fallingblood]

Jesus failed. It is as simple as that. The church is no kingdom, and certainly not the kingdom of God.

Jesus made a prophecy that simply didn't come true.

 

[Green Kepi]

Jesus failed. It is as simple as that. The church is no kingdom, and certainly not the kingdom of God.

Jesus made a prophecy that simply didn't come true.

How did He fail? What Scriptures do you base your statement? In Ephesians 1:22-23 - God placed Him over everything for the church...which is His body. Ephesians 5:25-27 - He died for it.

'Ain't no way' He failed! As the true Messiah, He succeeded perfectly in the objective of His first coming. And He will likewise succeed perfectly in the objective of His second coming. This is an absolute promise of God. Jesus is going to return soon as King of Kings not to establish a Kingdom that He failed to establish the first time...this next time...He returns to collect His Saints and destroy the earth.....

 

[fallingblood]

How did He fail? What Scriptures do you base your statement? In Ephesians 1:22-23 - God placed Him over everything for the church...which is His body. Ephesians 5:25-27 - He died for it.

'Ain't no way' He failed! As the true Messiah, He succeeded perfectly in the objective of His first coming. And He will likewise succeed perfectly in the objective of His second coming. This is an absolute promise of God. Jesus is going to return soon as King of Kings not to establish a Kingdom that He failed to establish the first time...this next time...He returns to collect His Saints and destroy the earth.....

He wasn't the Messiah. He failed as the Jewish Messiah. This is very clear if you understand what the Jewish people were looking for in a Messiah.

Also, he failed by saying that some would not die before the Kingdom of God would arise. We are still waiting for the Kingdom of God. Everyone in the first century is dead. Jesus failed.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Those three guys from ZZ top.

 

[Green Kepi]

He wasn't the Messiah. He failed as the Jewish Messiah. This is very clear if you understand what the Jewish people were looking for in a Messiah.

Also, he failed by saying that some would not die before the Kingdom of God would arise. We are still waiting for the Kingdom of God. Everyone in the first century is dead. Jesus failed.

Yeah...according to the majority of the Jews...He did fail. He did say some of the ones alive would not die before it came...again...the Church is His Kingdom. Its here. Some of those He spoke to was still alive in Acts 2....

 

[fahrenheit]

He wasn't the Messiah. He failed as the Jewish Messiah. This is very clear if you understand what the Jewish people were looking for in a Messiah.

It is my understanding that the Jewish people were looking for freedom from oppression, which is what Jesus did Not a freedom from the Romans, but freedom from the oppressions of sin.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Jesus failed. It is as simple as that. The church is no kingdom, and certainly not the kingdom of God.

Jesus made a prophecy that simply didn't come true.

You're assuming, of course, that Jesus actually made the "prophesy."

The meaning of these verses depends on who wrote these verses and when.

 

[sojourner]

Those three guys from ZZ top.

"Jesus just left Chicago -- and he's bound for New Orleans.
Workin' from one end to the other -- and all points in between!"

 

[esmith]

It is my understanding that the Jewish people were looking for freedom from oppression, which is what Jesus did Not a freedom from the Romans, but freedom from the oppressions of sin.

I am fairly certain that those of the Jewish faith do not believe that someone else can die for their sins. They personally have to "atone" for their sins in different ways depending on the "sin". However, since I am not Jewish would expect a clarification if I have misspoken.

 

[Hodad]

Jesus failed. It is as simple as that. The church is no kingdom, and certainly not the kingdom of God.

Jesus made a prophecy that simply didn't come true.

Define what you mean by church please. It is not a word found in the Greek.

What was the prophecy that Jesus made that didn't come true?

 

[Pegg]

Matthew 16 vs 28: I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."

Who are there? Are they even people who are more than 2000 years old now, since Jesus's kingdom is not here yet. Or should I read this allegorically other than literally.

What you think?

this is a reference to an event witnessed by 3 apostles. Jesus took 3 of them up a mountain and became 'transfigured' before them. They later applied his words above, to that event. So they did not think that Jesus meant that some of them would still be around thousands of years later...they later realised that his words were in reference to that event. While on the mountain, they were given a prophetic vision of Jesus in the heavenly kingdom. In that way, they saw him in his future kingly position before they died.

 

[esmith]

From my studies, it was understood that Jesus started with John the Baptist, a apocalypticism Jew. These beliefs were then continued with Jesus and Paul.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Jesus' Kingdom came in the form of the Church.

I agree with this. Now with respect to His second coming, in Baha'i’s belief, by Kingdom was not meant a worldly power or kingdom in a literal sense. Baha'u'llah proclaimed to mankind that He was the Promised second Messiah and His present was the Kingdom of God on earth.

'Lo! He is come in the sheltering shadow of Testimony, invested with conclusive proof and evidence, and those who truly believe in Him regard His presence as the embodiment of the Kingdom of God. Blessed is the man who turneth towards Him, and woe betide such as deny or doubt Him." Tablets of Baha'u'llah, Page 9:

Bahá'í Reference Library - Tablets of Bahá’u’lláh Revealed After the Kitáb-i-Aqdas, Pages 9-17

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Matthew 16 vs 28: I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."

Who are there? Are they even people who are more than 2000 years old now, since Jesus's kingdom is not here yet. Or should I read this allegorically other than literally.

What you think?

In our view, this has a spiritual interpretation.

"Verily He Who is the Day-star of Truth and Revealer of the Supreme Being holdeth, for all time, undisputed sovereignty over all that is in heaven and on earth, though no man be found on earth to obey Him." Baha'u'llah, Book of Iqan, page 93:

Bahá'í Reference Library - The Kitáb-i-Íqán, Pages 97-120

 

[fallingblood]

Define what you mean by church please. It is not a word found in the Greek.

What was the prophecy that Jesus made that didn't come true?

Church is found in the Greek. The word is ekklesia, which may not translate directly to church, but assembly or congregation. At the most basic level, that is what a church was.

The prophecy that Jesus made that didn't come true is the one that was quoted at the beginning of this thread, in the OP. It is what started this entire thread.

As A_E pointed out though, it may not have even come from Jesus, but originated later on.

 

[fallingblood]

Yeah...according to the majority of the Jews...He did fail. He did say some of the ones alive would not die before it came...again...the Church is His Kingdom. Its here. Some of those He spoke to was still alive in Acts 2....

The messiah was promised to the Jews, so they should be the ones who would know if the messiah came or not. The fact that Jesus did not fulfill the messianic expectations, shows that Jesus was not the Messiah. And in fact, even though there were different expectations for the Messiah, Jesus fulfilled none.

Also, the "Church" as by modern understanding never did come until quite some time afterwards. Even Christianity had not formed until late in the 1st century. And then, it wasn't even fully based on what Jesus wanted. So no, the "Church" does not constitute the Kingdom of God. Jesus never equates the two. No Jew ever equated the two. And we know from other writers what the Kingdom of God was. It was definitely not the "Church."

 

[fallingblood]

It is my understanding that the Jewish people were looking for freedom from oppression, which is what Jesus did Not a freedom from the Romans, but freedom from the oppressions of sin.

That is now what the Jews were looking for. And that would not constitute what the Jews were looking for in the idea of freedom from oppression.