361: The new great Islamic controversy on verses 9:128-129

[ProofofGod]

Peace to everyone,

I am afraid this post may sound like an atomic bomb for some people, Muslims especially, but here it goes: A new website has recently been published (http://www.islamrevolution.org/index.htm) and it provides very disturbing information on what seems to be a miraculous mathematical system embedded in Quran called “361”. The real problem with “361” is that it claims it exposes mathematically two false verses in the Quran (9:128-129). I would greatly appreciate people to provide some educated feedback (uneducated feedback won’t help):
http://www.islamrevolution.org/361summary.htm (short basic summary)
http://www.islamrevolution.org/361mainarticle.htm (detailed article)

Here are the 5 first “facts” provided on the article:
361: Basic principle:
- In the verse numbering structure of Quran (numbered verses section of the Quran specifically) let us select the 361st numbered verse, then the 722nd (361x2) numbered verse, then the 1083rd numbered verse (361x3)....basically every verse that is multiple of361until you reach the end of the Quran: you get 17 verses spaced every 361verses in the numbered section of the Quran.

Fact # 1
- If you add up the Gematrical Values (every letter in Arabic has a “mathematical value” or GV (see detail of gematrical values @http://www.islamrevolution.org/miracleof19.htm) of all letters found in the 17 verses, you get a multiple of 19: 59109 = 19x3111.

Fact # 2
-If you separate in the 17 verses, verses with “God” from the ones without God, You still come up with two separate sub groups multiple of 19:
The gematrical value of the 3 verses with God is: 9633 = 19x507.

Fact # 3
- Let us now select, exactly in the same way, all verses multiple of 361 starting counting reverse from the end of the Quran instead of from the beginning: you still get 17 different verses, spaced exactly every 361 verses. The total gematrical value of all 17 verses (adding the mathematical values of every letter in the 17 verses) is again multiple of 19: 58748 = 19x3092.

Fact # 4
- If you again separate verses which contain the word “God” from the ones which do not, you again witness two separate sub groups multiple of 19.
The addition of gematrical values of all letters in the 6 verses which contain “God” is: 34010 = 19x1790.

Fact # 5
- The grand total of gematrical values of 361normal order of the Quran is 59109 = 19x3111.
- The grand total of gematrical values of 361 reverse order of the Quran is 58748 =19x3092.
►Let us subtract the gematrical values of 361 normal order from 361 reverse order of Quran: 59109 – 57748 = 361 =19x19.

﴾41:53﴿ We will show them our proofs in the horizons, and within themselves, until they realize that this is the truth. Is your Lord not sufficient as a witness of “everything” (GV 361)?

The astounding fact that number 361(19x19)exactlyseparates the gematrical values of 361 normal and reverse order of the Quran, in addition to the above perfectly symmetrical 19 and 361 based mathematical system cannot possibly be a coincidence for people who have eyes to see. Statistically, the odds that the above described system (including facts 1 to 5) would occur purely by chance is at least, if we remain conservative, 1 chance in 47,045,881. Now, what are the odds that such a system would occur by chance in a book which specifically proclaims that “Over it is 19” (74:30)? Can it be a miraculous coincidence, or is it an incontrovertible proof of a superior intelligent design and God’s handiwork?

I hope I will get serious feedback:
islamrevolution.org - There is no other god beside God

 

[McBell]

Calculating the odds after the fact will ALWAYS be 1:1

Is this sort of numerology something that Allah permits?
I know it is being called math, but since they are pulling numbers out their backside it is actually nothing more than numerology.

This is no different than the numerology that some people refer to as "The Bible Code."

 

[kai]

Peace to everyone,

I am afraid this post may sound like an atomic bomb for some people, Muslims especially, but here it goes: A new website has recently been published (http://www.islamrevolution.org/index.htm) and it provides very disturbing information on what seems to be a miraculous mathematical system embedded in Quran called “361”. The real problem with “361” is that it claims it exposes mathematically two false verses in the Quran (9:128-129). I would greatly appreciate people to provide some educated feedback (uneducated feedback won’t help):
http://www.islamrevolution.org/361summary.htm (short basic summary)
http://www.islamrevolution.org/361mainarticle.htm (detailed article)

Here are the 5 first “facts” provided on the article:
361: Basic principle:
- In the verse numbering structure of Quran (numbered verses section of the Quran specifically) let us select the 361st numbered verse, then the 722nd (361x2) numbered verse, then the 1083rd numbered verse (361x3)....basically every verse that is multiple of361until you reach the end of the Quran: you get 17 verses spaced every 361verses in the numbered section of the Quran.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- and then my attention span wandered, on to girls on trampolines!!!!

 

[ProofofGod]

Calculating the odds after the fact will ALWAYS be 1:1

Is this sort of numerology something that Allah permits?
I know it is being called math, but since they are pulling numbers out their backside it is actually nothing more than numerology.

This is no different than the numerology that some people refer to as "The Bible Code."

You don't seem to have read the short summary of 361 islamrevolution.org - There is no other god beside God)

Number 361 is not picked randomly at all and it has a profound significance regarding the preservation of Quran. Moreover, unlike Bible codes, there is nothing random in the fact that the mathematical values specifically (gematrical values, meaning adding the mathematical values assigned to each letter in Arabic) are consistently multiple of 19 in verses spaces every 361 verses (multiple of 361 in the numbering system of Quran).​

<B><U><FONT size=3><FONT face=&quot;Times New Roman&quot;><FONT color=red>Fact # 1

 

[JustWondering]

What is the purpose of the post? What is significant about the number 361? When did the Quran become a math book?

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Holy crap!

Oh my god - I've figured out even more amazing math with the numbers 19 and 361 - no doubt can remain!

3*6 = 18 + 1 = 19!

3 + 1 = 4
36/4 = 9 -> 1,9 -> 19!
4 is the maximum number of wives allowed according to Sura 4:3 in the Quran.
4*3 = 12; 4+3 = 7; 12+7 = 19!

sqrt of 19 = 4.359 - which is only 2 short of 361 - there are 2 false verses!

3 + 6 = 9 + 1 = 10 + 3 + 6 = 19/1 = 19!

That took about 6 minutes - ain't math fun?

 

[YmirGF]

Holy crap!

Oh my god - I've figured out even more amazing math with the numbers 19 and 361 - no doubt can remain!

3*6 = 18 + 1 = 19!

3 + 1 = 4
36/4 = 9 -> 1,9 -> 19!
4 is the maximum number of wives allowed according to Sura 4:3 in the Quran.
4*3 = 12; 4+3 = 7; 12+7 = 19!

sqrt of 19 = 4.359 - which is only 2 short of 361 - there are 2 false verses!

3 + 6 = 9 + 1 = 10 + 3 + 6 = 19/1 = 19!

That took about 6 minutes - ain't math fun?

3 + 6 + 1 = 10
1 * 0 = 0

Sounds like much ado about nothing to me.
And a wee snippet from a website Muslims love to hate: The Mysterious 19 In The Qur'an - A Critical Evaluation

When we count the Arabic letters that make up this verse we find they total 19. Dr. Khalifa discovered that every word in this verse is mentioned a number of times in the Quran and these numbers are multiples of nineteen.

The first word "name" is allegedly found exactly 19 times in the entire Quran. The second word "Allah" in mentioned in the Quran 2698 times (19 x 142); the third word of the verse, "al-Rahman", is found in the Quran 57 times (3 x 19); and finally, the fourth word in the first Quranic verse, "al-Rahim", is mentioned 114 times (6 x 19) in the entire Quran. (so far Dr. Rashad Khalifa).

We are amazed at this statement, because every child in the Madressa school is aware that of the 114 Suras of the Quran, 113 begin with this verse "In the name of God, the compassionate, the merciful." We do not understand how Dr. Khalifa can state that the word name is found in the whole Quran exactly 19 times or "al-Rahman" 52 times or "al-Rahim" 114 times. We suspect that the so-called "Bismillahs", i.e. the opening verses of almost all Suras have been expediently left out by Dr. Khalifa. Had he included them, his totals would no longer have been divisible by 19. We must conclude that Dr. Khalifa has purposely tried to mislead his readers when he states that the whole Quran is meant. He has left out the Bismillahs to suit his own purpose of providing divinity through deception.

Just how much kool-aid does one have to sip for all this rubbish to makes sense?

 

[Jose Fly]

All that pales in comparison to Moby Dick. It foretold numerous assasinations.

Moby Dick....the True Word of God!!!!!!

 

[neves]

Peace to everyone,

I am afraid this post may sound like an atomic bomb for some people, Muslims especially, but here it goes: A new website has recently been published (http://www.islamrevolution.org/index.htm) and it provides very disturbing information on what seems to be a miraculous mathematical system embedded in Quran called “361”. The real problem with “361” is that it claims it exposes mathematically two false verses in the Quran (9:128-129). I would greatly appreciate people to provide some educated feedback (uneducated feedback won’t help):
http://www.islamrevolution.org/361summary.htm (short basic summary)
http://www.islamrevolution.org/361mainarticle.htm (detailed article)

Here are the 5 first “facts” provided on the article:
361: Basic principle:
- In the verse numbering structure of Quran (numbered verses section of the Quran specifically) let us select the 361st numbered verse, then the 722nd (361x2) numbered verse, then the 1083rd numbered verse (361x3)....basically every verse that is multiple of361until you reach the end of the Quran: you get 17 verses spaced every 361verses in the numbered section of the Quran.

Fact # 1
- If you add up the Gematrical Values (every letter in Arabic has a “mathematical value” or GV (see detail of gematrical values @http://www.islamrevolution.org/miracleof19.htm) of all letters found in the 17 verses, you get a multiple of 19: 59109 = 19x3111.

Fact # 2
-If you separate in the 17 verses, verses with “God” from the ones without God, You still come up with two separate sub groups multiple of 19:
The gematrical value of the 3 verses with God is: 9633 = 19x507.

Fact # 3
- Let us now select, exactly in the same way, all verses multiple of 361 starting counting reverse from the end of the Quran instead of from the beginning: you still get 17 different verses, spaced exactly every 361 verses. The total gematrical value of all 17 verses (adding the mathematical values of every letter in the 17 verses) is again multiple of 19: 58748 = 19x3092.

Fact # 4
- If you again separate verses which contain the word “God” from the ones which do not, you again witness two separate sub groups multiple of 19.
The addition of gematrical values of all letters in the 6 verses which contain “God” is: 34010 = 19x1790.

Fact # 5
- The grand total of gematrical values of 361normal order of the Quran is 59109 = 19x3111.
- The grand total of gematrical values of 361 reverse order of the Quran is 58748 =19x3092.
&#9658;Let us subtract the gematrical values of 361 normal order from 361 reverse order of Quran: 59109 – 57748 = 361 =19x19.

&#64830;41:53&#64831; We will show them our proofs in the horizons, and within themselves, until they realize that this is the truth. Is your Lord not sufficient as a witness of “everything” (GV 361)?

The astounding fact that number 361(19x19)exactlyseparates the gematrical values of 361 normal and reverse order of the Quran, in addition to the above perfectly symmetrical 19 and 361 based mathematical system cannot possibly be a coincidence for people who have eyes to see. Statistically, the odds that the above described system (including facts 1 to 5) would occur purely by chance is at least, if we remain conservative, 1 chance in 47,045,881. Now, what are the odds that such a system would occur by chance in a book which specifically proclaims that “Over it is 19” (74:30)? Can it be a miraculous coincidence, or is it an incontrovertible proof of a superior intelligent design and God’s handiwork?

I hope I will get serious feedback:
islamrevolution.org - There is no other god beside God

74: Al-Muddaththir

" Then he frowned and he scowled; (22) Then he turned back and was haughty; (23) Then said he: "This is nothing but magic, derived from of old;" (24) "This is nothing but the word of a mortal!" (25) Soon will cast him into Hell-Fire! (26) And what will explain to thee what Hell-Fire is? (27) Naught doth it permit to endure, and naught doth it leave alone!&#8213; (28) Darkening and changing the colour of man! (29) Over it are Nineteen. (30) And We have set none but angels as guardians of the Fire; and We have fixed their number only as a trial for Unbelievers&#8213; in order that the people of the Book may arrive at certainty, and the Believers may increase in Faith and that no doubts may be left for the People of the Book and the Believers, and that those in whose hearts is a disease and the Unbelievers may say "What symbol doth Allah intend by this?" Thus doth Allah leave to stray whom He pleaseth, and guide whom He pleaseth; and none can know the forces of thy Lord except He, and this is no other than a warning to mankind. (31)Nay, verily: by the Moon (32) And by the Night as it retreateth, (33) And by the Dawn as it shineth forth&#8213; (34) This is but one of the mighty (Portents), (35) A warning to mankind&#8213; (36) To any of you that chooses to press forward, or to follow behind (37) Every soul will be (held) in pledge for its deeds. (38) Except the Companions of the Right Hand. (39) (They will be) in Gardens (of Delight); they will question each other (40)"

Don't let your love for numerology blind you to the deen and make you an unbeliever...

 

[ProofofGod]

Peace,

74: Al-Muddaththir
"Then he frowned and he scowled; (22) Then he turned back and was haughty; (23) Then said he: "This is nothing but magic, derived from of old;" (24) "This is nothing but the word of a mortal!" (25) Soon will cast him into Hell-Fire! (26) And what will explain to thee what Hell-Fire is? (27) Naught doth it permit to endure, and naught doth it leave alone!&#8213; (28) Darkening and changing the colour of man! (29) Over it are Nineteen. (30) And We have set none but angels as guardians of the Fire; and We have fixed their number only as a trial for Unbelievers&#8213; in order that the people of the Book may arrive at certainty, and the Believers may increase in Faith and that no doubts may be left for the People of the Book and the Believers, and that those in whose hearts is a disease and the Unbelievers may say "What symbol doth Allah intend by this?" Thus doth Allah leave to stray whom He pleaseth, and guide whom He pleaseth; and none can know the forces of thy Lord except He, and this is no other than a warning to mankind. (31)Nay, verily: by the Moon (32) And by the Night as it retreateth, (33) And by the Dawn as it shineth forth&#8213; (34) This is but one of the mighty (Portents), (35) A warning to mankind&#8213; (36) To any of you that chooses to press forward, or to follow behind (37) Every soul will be (held) in pledge for its deeds. (38) Except the Companions of the Right Hand. (39) (They will be) in Gardens (of Delight); they will question each other (40)"

Don't let your love for numerology blind you to the deen and make you an unbeliever...

The miracle of 19 increases immensily my faith and gives me certainty:
"...in order that the people of the Book may arrive at certainty."74:31

What about you? According to verse 74:30, if the sign of 19 doesn't increase your faith but lets you wonder about what kind of allegory it is, then you are on the wrong side, the side o fthose who reject God's signs and miracles.

Peace.

 

[JustWondering]

The miracle of 19 increases immensily my faith and gives me certainty

No offense but your standards for miracles are pretty low. What exactly does this math problem prove?

 

[McBell]

What exactly does this math problem prove?

That someone has to much free time.....
That it takes very little to impress the devout of the truth of what they believe...

 

[neves]

Peace,



The miracle of 19 increases immensily my faith and gives me certainty:
"...in order that the people of the Book may arrive at certainty."74:31

What about you? According to verse 74:30, if the sign of 19 doesn't increase your faith but lets you wonder about what kind of allegory it is, then you are on the wrong side, the side o fthose who reject God's signs and miracles.

Peace.

If you read the verse in context you can see that Allah made the number of angels as a stumbling block for people who want to use it for their own gain. It also says the true meaning of the number of angels is only with Allah and him alone.

 

[iloveislam]

Praise be to Allah that the Qur'an has clear evidence and guidance for people to ponder over.

People do not have to resort to 'numerical secrets' to believe in the Qur'an. Just as these 'numerical secrets' happen to be in the Qur'an, the same can be found in the Bible and Vedas and other religious texts.

If one uses these 'numerical secrets' to prove the Qur'an right then another person will use the same deceptive tactics to prove the Bible right, and so and so forth.

The Qur'an is a clear book of guidance therefore there are no secrets for us to unlock.

 

[Supergate]

I have been wondering...
Has anyone found "numerical secretes" in Moby Dick?
The Ori have power over all, and thus the knowledge is everywhere.

 

[ProofofGod]

Hi just wondering and all,

No offense but your standards for miracles are pretty low. What exactly does this math problem prove?

If you say that , it's because you didn't read the main article (islamrevolution.org - There is no other god beside God), and probably not even the summary on the website. The miracle of 19 is a massive convergence of mathematical properties, like:
islamrevolution.org - There is no other god beside God

Peace.

 

[YmirGF]

Hi just wondering and all,



If you say that , it's because you didn't read the main article (islamrevolution.org - There is no other god beside God), and probably not even the summary on the website. The miracle of 19 is a massive convergence of mathematical properties, like:
islamrevolution.org - There is no other god beside God

Peace.

Well, I did read the site for quite some time and have determined it is very likely a fraud. But hey, whatever floats yer boat, eh. I'd be inclined to listen to ILoveIsalm on this one, friend.

 

[McBell]

You don't seem to have read the short summary of 361 islamrevolution.org - There is no other god beside God)

Number 361 is not picked randomly at all and it has a profound significance regarding the preservation of Quran. Moreover, unlike Bible codes, there is nothing random in the fact that the mathematical values specifically (gematrical values, meaning adding the mathematical values assigned to each letter in Arabic) are consistently multiple of 19 in verses spaces every 361 verses (multiple of 361 in the numbering system of Quran).​

<B><U><FONT size=3><FONT face=&quot;Times New Roman&quot;><FONT color=red>Fact # 1

I did in fact read the short summary.
I even read the long summary.

I stand by my statement that it is nothing more than numerology.
The fact is you are manipulating the numbers to say what you want.
Nothing more.

 

[ProofofGod]

Praise be to Allah that the Qur'an has clear evidence and guidance for people to ponder over.

People do not have to resort to 'numerical secrets' to believe in the Qur'an. Just as these 'numerical secrets' happen to be in the Qur'an, the same can be found in the Bible and Vedas and other religious texts.

If one uses these 'numerical secrets' to prove the Qur'an right then another person will use the same deceptive tactics to prove the Bible right, and so and so forth.

The Qur'an is a clear book of guidance therefore there are no secrets for us to unlock.

Well if "Over it is 19" (verse 74:30) doesn't mean anything for you, I do believe that "over it is 19". It cannot be an accident in this context if the Bismillah has 19 letters, the number of suras in Quran are 114 = 19x6, the frequency of each word of the Bismillah is again multiple of 19, and so on islamrevolution.org - There is no other god beside God).
I respect your statement, even if I believe you reject "one of the greatest" (miracle) (74:35). If according to you, 19, the gematrical value of "One" (waheed) doesn't mean anything in a book which proclaims the Oneness of God, it is your judgment.
More important than 19 or 361, Quran proclaims that the true Shahadah is "la elaha ela Allah" (there is no other god beside God) and that no name shall be mentioned beside him (39:45), including Muhammad. Such is the real test of faith in Quran (37:35).