616---The Number of the Beast

[loverofhumanity]

Are you sure?

The Umayyad Caliphate ruled the Islamic Empire from 661-750 CE. It succeeded the Rashidun Caliphate when Muawiyah I became Caliph after the First Muslim Civil War. Muawiyah I established his capital in the city of Damascus where the Umayyads would rule the Islamic Empire for nearly 100 years.​

Hi CG. Hope you are well and happy new year.

This is what I can find from our authoritative writings on the subject.

The Universal House of Justice in a letter dated 1 August 1978 written on its behalf to an individual believer, provided the following information about the Master’s interpretation:

‘Abdu’l-Bahá in a Tablet has given an explanation for the reference to the “beast” mentioned in Revelations 13:18, saying that the numerical value given to the beast in that passage referred to the date of the year, i.e. 666 A.D., when the Umayyad ruler arose. This is obviously a reference to Mu‘áwíyih, the Umayyad Caliph who opposed the Imamate. He speaks further on this subject in Some Answered Questions, Chapter XI.
For Mr. ...’s information, Mu‘áwíyih Ibn Abí Sufyán was born in Mecca in 602 A.D. and died in Damascus in 680. He assumed the Caliphate in 661 following the assassination of ‘Alí, the Fourth Caliph, thereby establishing the Umayyad dynasty, which ruled for 92 years. His reign was marked by prolonged and virulent opposition to the clan of Baní Háshim, to which ‘Alí’s household belonged. To date, the Research Department has not been able to determine the nature of the activities in which Mu‘áwíyih engaged during the year 666.


Mark of the Beast and Implanted Computer Chips

 

[CG Didymus]

Hi CG. Hope you are well and happy new year.

This is what I can find from our authoritative writings on the subject.

The Universal House of Justice in a letter dated 1 August 1978 written on its behalf to an individual believer, provided the following information about the Master’s interpretation:

‘Abdu’l-Bahá in a Tablet has given an explanation for the reference to the “beast” mentioned in Revelations 13:18, saying that the numerical value given to the beast in that passage referred to the date of the year, i.e. 666 A.D., when the Umayyad ruler arose. This is obviously a reference to Mu‘áwíyih, the Umayyad Caliph who opposed the Imamate. He speaks further on this subject in Some Answered Questions, Chapter XI.
For Mr. ...’s information, Mu‘áwíyih Ibn Abí Sufyán was born in Mecca in 602 A.D. and died in Damascus in 680. He assumed the Caliphate in 661 following the assassination of ‘Alí, the Fourth Caliph, thereby establishing the Umayyad dynasty, which ruled for 92 years. His reign was marked by prolonged and virulent opposition to the clan of Baní Háshim, to which ‘Alí’s household belonged. To date, the Research Department has not been able to determine the nature of the activities in which Mu‘áwíyih engaged during the year 666.


Mark of the Beast and Implanted Computer Chips

I can go with it being Nero. Or, with the way things are going, I can believe it is someone in the near future... with things like no one can buy or sell etc., it could very well be something that is coming up. And Baha'is predict this also don't they? That things will get so bad that the only option left for the world is to turn to the Baha's? With some Christians, the have the beast and anti-Christ and Armageddon and things getting really, really bad, then Jesus comes. The only thing I don't believe is that the 666 is a date... the year 666AD. One Baha'i added five years to the 661AD start of the Umayyad's to get to the 666. These five years came from Jesus not being born in the year zero, but being born 4 or 5 years before that.

 

[loverofhumanity]

I can go with it being Nero. Or, with the way things are going, I can believe it is someone in the near future... with things like no one can buy or sell etc., it could very well be something that is coming up. And Baha'is predict this also don't they? That things will get so bad that the only option left for the world is to turn to the Baha's? With some Christians, the have the beast and anti-Christ and Armageddon and things getting really, really bad, then Jesus comes. The only thing I don't believe is that the 666 is a date... the year 666AD. One Baha'i added five years to the 661AD start of the Umayyad's to get to the 666. These five years came from Jesus not being born in the year zero, but being born 4 or 5 years before that.

I personally think way too much superstition has been woven around verses like this as people love to sensationalise and dramatise out of boredom.

All these symbolic verses say to me simply is that if we continue down a purely materialistic and self centred path, ignoring things like love and goodwill towards all men , then we shall have another war or bring upon us some terrible suffering which will then make us realise we must drop our prejudices and learn to embrace all humanity as one entity.

We can say too that materialism and consumerism are as beasts and Satan because they are ruining us spiritually and morally.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

If twenty Bibles say one thing and another says something else, most likely the one, is wrong!!!

Why?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

The entirety of the chr-stian texts were written in Greek. Why even bring up Hebrew? It is clearly obvious that none of the authors of the chr-stian texts knew anything about Hebrew, Jews or Judaism.

That is nonsense. Only the N.T is in Greek and some Aramaic. The scholars that translate the Bible, including the O.T., know Hebrew better than you do. Some of them are Jewish.

To paraphrase Trump:

There's some really goofy comments on both sides.​

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

@Skwim, my understanding is that this 616 is sourced from only one document. While it is true that that is the number written on that document, there are no other documents that confirm it.

Easily found at Wikipedia ...

Papyrus 115 (which is the oldest preserved manuscript of the Revelation as of 2017), as well as other ancient sources like Codex Ephraemi Rescriptus, give the number of the beast as χιϛ or χιϲ (transliterable in Arabic numerals as 616) (χιϛ), not 666;[2][3] critical editions of the Greek text, such as the Novum Testamentum Graece, note 616 as a variant.[4]​

That's to say, it is an outlier... It is more likely to be transcription error than anything else. (Occam's razor..)

Poor Occam is turning over in his grave.

 

[Onoma]

Sure, that's from Papyrus 115

In that case, 616 is apparently written using the letters of the XI monogram

In other texts that have 666, ( Papyrus 47 as an example ) the number is written with XΣ, taken from IΣ XΣ

Then the letter digamma ϛ as the numeral 6

XI + ϛ = 616
XΣ + ϛ = 666

The letter digamma ϛ we now know as the letter stigma ϛ after the Byzantine ligature combining σ-τ ( sigma and tau ) as ϛ

So, there's your " mark " right there, it's actually part of the number itself

The name, stigma (στίγμα), is originally a common Greek noun meaning "a mark, dot, puncture", or generally "a sign", from the verb στίζω ("(I) puncture"); the related but distinct word stigme (στιγμή) is the classical and post-classical word for "geometric point; punctuation mark"

The word " stigma " is only used one time in the Bible, iirc, in Galatians:

" From henceforth let no man trouble me: for I bear in my body the marks ( stigma - στίγμα ) of the Lord Jesus "

In both cases, 616 and 666, they are written as nomina sacra ( sacred names ) in Greek manuscripts, this is clearly evident by the use of the little " horn " notation ( The line over the number )

Clearly explained in the Strong's Greek concordance:

2762 keraía – properly, a little "horn," i.e. " 'a little hook, an apostrophe' on letters of the alphabet, distinguishing them from other like-letters, or a 'separation stroke' between letters" (Souter); a tittle (KJV).

["Tittle" comes from the Latin, titulus – the stroke above an abbreviated word – and later, any small mark.



Amazing what a little study will bring up

 

[firedragon]

To Baha'is that is referring to the year 666 AD when militant Islam began and true Islam was subverted.

CE 666 Mu’awiya proclaims as the First UmayyAD Caliph CE 666–749 UmayyAD Caliphate (Damascus)

But the Bible also proclaims Muhammad and Islam to be from God and Ali as the true successor not the Umayyad Caliphate.

1. Yet, what if the correct number is 616 as in several authoritative manuscripts? Have you considered that?
2. You say that it was Muawiyahs advent that was predicted in the book of revelations? How about all the other references to the "beast"? Is that extreme cherry picking again?
3. Muawiyah became khalif and spun the Umayyad khalifate in the year 661. So your dating is wrong.
4. Which verse of the Bible are you claiming that predicted "Muhammad and Islam to be from God and Ali as the true successor not the Umayyad Caliphate"?

 

[WhoIsBeast 750]

1. Yet, what if the correct number is 616 as in several authoritative manuscripts? Have you considered that?
2. You say that it was Muawiyahs advent that was predicted in the book of revelations? How about all the other references to the "beast"? Is that extreme cherry picking again?
3. Muawiyah became khalif and spun the Umayyad khalifate in the year 661. So your dating is wrong.
4. Which verse of the Bible are you claiming that predicted "Muhammad and Islam to be from God and Ali as the true successor not the Umayyad Caliphate"?

I sealed the scrolls here not only are you wrong the number is really 666 and the book can be unlocked by mathematics, there are three gematria to confirm it and his name can be easily found because it is written without understanding that when he comes there will be no chance to deny what he says such is the world of the whole in delusion in one verse and kills everyone who does not kneel and in another it is a servant and saying ad do not do it

there is a disease which afflicts his name his mother's name i (his father) and the more the country from which the story of the rebellion comes disintegrates like a deck of cards


the number 666 is spelled correctly
this is the only way to find out who it is, even the full name and surname are written there so that it can be confirmed and after insertion into the gematria it agrees and not Jesus it is not

 

[firedragon]

I sealed the scrolls here not only are you wrong the number is really 666 and the book can be unlocked by mathematics, there are three gematria to confirm it and his name can be easily found because it is written without understanding that when he comes there will be no chance to deny what he says such is the world of the whole in delusion in one verse and kills everyone who does not kneel and in another it is a servant and saying ad do not do it

there is a disease which afflicts his name his mother's name i (his father) and the more the country from which the story of the rebellion comes disintegrates like a deck of cards


the number 666 is spelled correctly
this is the only way to find out who it is, even the full name and surname are written there so that it can be confirmed and after insertion into the gematria it agrees and not Jesus it is not

Thanks.,

Please respond to the other points as well.

 

[WhoIsBeast 750]

1. Yet, what if the correct number is 616 as in several authoritative manuscripts? Have you considered that?
2. You say that it was Muawiyahs advent that was predicted in the book of revelations? How about all the other references to the "beast"? Is that extreme cherry picking again?
3. Muawiyah became khalif and spun the Umayyad khalifate in the year 661. So your dating is wrong.
4. Which verse of the Bible are you claiming that predicted "Muhammad and Islam to be from God and Ali as the true successor not the Umayyad Caliphate"?


1 complet answered

2 the beast is a human prophet (not to be confused with a tail it is a false prophet) books have not been opened yet that is the name of blasphemy
3 they have no basis in writing, it is a matter of speculation and even incorrectly, if the writing agrees, I do not see verses that confirm it
4 only guesses god doesn't have to say in his letter who he sends and who he didn't write us for research simply sends the prophets when he wants to be announced is only the last one the true seeker will find an explanation but the others will not (verses confirm it) and therefore in the end what the majority will reject

 

[loverofhumanity]

1. Yet, what if the correct number is 616 as in several authoritative manuscripts? Have you considered that?
2. You say that it was Muawiyahs advent that was predicted in the book of revelations? How about all the other references to the "beast"? Is that extreme cherry picking again?
3. Muawiyah became khalif and spun the Umayyad khalifate in the year 661. So your dating is wrong.
4. Which verse of the Bible are you claiming that predicted "Muhammad and Islam to be from God and Ali as the true successor not the Umayyad Caliphate"?

Rev. 12:1

And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars.


Abdul-Bahá’s interpretation


“And in chapter 12 it is said: “And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars.” This woman is that bride, the religion of God, that descended upon Muḥammad. The sun with which she was clothed, and the moon which was under her feet, are the two governments which are under the shadow of that religion, the Persian and the Ottoman, for the emblem of Persia is the sun and that of the Ottoman Empire is the “crescent moon. Thus the sun and the moon allude to two governments under the shadow of the religion of God. Afterwards it is said: “upon her head a crown of twelve stars”. These twelve stars represent the twelve Imáms, who were the promoters of the religion of Muḥammad and the educators of the nation, and who shone as stars in the heaven of guidance.”


Some Answered Questions

‘Abdu’l‑Bahá

 

[loverofhumanity]

Rev. 12:1

And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars.


Abdul-Bahá’s interpretation


“And in chapter 12 it is said: “And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars.” This woman is that bride, the religion of God, that descended upon Muḥammad. The sun with which she was clothed, and the moon which was under her feet, are the two governments which are under the shadow of that religion, the Persian and the Ottoman, for the emblem of Persia is the sun and that of the Ottoman Empire is the “crescent moon. Thus the sun and the moon allude to two governments under the shadow of the religion of God. Afterwards it is said: “upon her head a crown of twelve stars”. These twelve stars represent the twelve Imáms, who were the promoters of the religion of Muḥammad and the educators of the nation, and who shone as stars in the heaven of guidance.”


Some Answered Questions

‘Abdu’l‑Bahá

This speaks of Shiah Islam

 

[loverofhumanity]

1. Yet, what if the correct number is 616 as in several authoritative manuscripts? Have you considered that?
2. You say that it was Muawiyahs advent that was predicted in the book of revelations? How about all the other references to the "beast"? Is that extreme cherry picking again?
3. Muawiyah became khalif and spun the Umayyad khalifate in the year 661. So your dating is wrong.
4. Which verse of the Bible are you claiming that predicted "Muhammad and Islam to be from God and Ali as the true successor not the Umayyad Caliphate"?

This speaks of the Umayyads and Sunni Islam.


Rev. 12:3-4

Abdul-Bahá’í interpretation


“And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them “to the earth.” This dragon represents the Umayyads, who seized the reins of the religion of Muḥammad; and the seven heads and seven crowns represent the seven dominions and kingdoms over which they came to rule: the Roman dominion in Syria; the Persian, the Arabian, and the Egyptian dominions; the dominion of Africa—that is, Tunisia, Morocco, and Algeria; the dominion of Andalusia, which is now Spain; and the dominion of the Turkish tribes of Transoxania. The Umayyads gained power over all these dominions. The ten horns represent the names of the Umayyad rulers, for, barring repetition, they are ten sovereigns, or ten names of chiefs and rulers. The first is Abú Sufyán and the last is Marván. Some of their names have been repeated, including two Mu‘áviyihs, three Yazíds, two Valíds, and two Marváns. If, however, these names are each counted only once, they number ten in total. These Umayyads—the first of whom was Abú Sufyán, the former chief of Mecca and founder of the dynasty, and the last of whom was Marván—destroyed a third of the holy and sanctified souls who descended from the pure lineage of Muḥammad and who were even as the stars of heaven.”


Some Answered Questions

‘Abdu’l‑Bahá

 

[firedragon]

Rev. 12:1

And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars.


Abdul-Bahá’s interpretation


“And in chapter 12 it is said: “And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars.” This woman is that bride, the religion of God, that descended upon Muḥammad. The sun with which she was clothed, and the moon which was under her feet, are the two governments which are under the shadow of that religion, the Persian and the Ottoman, for the emblem of Persia is the sun and that of the Ottoman Empire is the “crescent moon. Thus the sun and the moon allude to two governments under the shadow of the religion of God. Afterwards it is said: “upon her head a crown of twelve stars”. These twelve stars represent the twelve Imáms, who were the promoters of the religion of Muḥammad and the educators of the nation, and who shone as stars in the heaven of guidance.”


Some Answered Questions

‘Abdu’l‑Bahá

Thanks.

How about Muawiyahs advent to the Umayyad kingdom being the Bahai "allusion" to the beast 666? Please give me your response to that point as well!

 

[firedragon]

This speaks of the Umayyads and Sunni Islam.


Rev. 12:3-4

Abdul-Bahá’í interpretation


“And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them “to the earth.” This dragon represents the Umayyads, who seized the reins of the religion of Muḥammad; and the seven heads and seven crowns represent the seven dominions and kingdoms over which they came to rule: the Roman dominion in Syria; the Persian, the Arabian, and the Egyptian dominions; the dominion of Africa—that is, Tunisia, Morocco, and Algeria; the dominion of Andalusia, which is now Spain; and the dominion of the Turkish tribes of Transoxania. The Umayyads gained power over all these dominions. The ten horns represent the names of the Umayyad rulers, for, barring repetition, they are ten sovereigns, or ten names of chiefs and rulers. The first is Abú Sufyán and the last is Marván. Some of their names have been repeated, including two Mu‘áviyihs, three Yazíds, two Valíds, and two Marváns. If, however, these names are each counted only once, they number ten in total. These Umayyads—the first of whom was Abú Sufyán, the former chief of Mecca and founder of the dynasty, and the last of whom was Marván—destroyed a third of the holy and sanctified souls who descended from the pure lineage of Muḥammad and who were even as the stars of heaven.”


Some Answered Questions

‘Abdu’l‑Bahá

But still, it didnt begin in 666. So the dating is wrong. I mean, you made a wrong statement to which I replied to.

So, the beast 666 referring to the Umayyad dynasty and the advent of Muawiyah is wrong. I am not getting into other theological stuff here. Just the number, and the error in your assessment that this referred to the year 666.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Thanks.

How about Muawiyahs advent to the Umayyad kingdom being the Bahai "allusion" to the beast 666? Please give me your response to that point as well!

The Universal House of Justice stated:

Except for what has been explained by Bahá’u’lláh and ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, we have no way of knowing what various symbolic allusions in the Bible mean.

While we have found no explanation of the meaning of the “mark of the beast” in the Bahá’í Writings, in one of His Tablets, ‘Abdu’l-Bahá does offer an interpretation of the numerical value of the beast which figures in Revelation 13:18, cited above. The Universal House of Justice in a letter dated 1 August 1978 written on its behalf to an individual believer, provided the following information about the Master’s interpretation:

‘Abdu’l-Bahá in a Tablet has given an explanation for the reference to the “beast” mentioned in Revelations 13:18, saying that the numerical value given to the beast in that passage referred to the date of the year, i.e. 666 A.D., when the Umayyad ruler arose. This is obviously a reference to Mu‘áwíyih, the Umayyad Caliph who opposed the Imamate. He speaks further on this subject in Some Answered Questions, Chapter XI.

For Mr. ...’s information, Mu‘áwíyih Ibn Abí Sufyán was born in Mecca in 602 A.D. and died in Damascus in 680. He assumed the Caliphate in 661 following the assassination of ‘Alí, the Fourth Caliph, thereby establishing the Umayyad dynasty, which ruled for 92 years. His reign was marked by prolonged and virulent opposition to the clan of Baní Háshim, to which ‘Alí’s household belonged. To date, the Research Department has not been able to determine the nature of the activities in which Mu‘áwíyih engaged during the year 666. (Universal House of Justice)

Mark of the Beast and Implanted Computer Chips

 

[firedragon]

The Universal House of Justice stated:

Except for what has been explained by Bahá’u’lláh and ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, we have no way of knowing what various symbolic allusions in the Bible mean.

While we have found no explanation of the meaning of the “mark of the beast” in the Bahá’í Writings, in one of His Tablets, ‘Abdu’l-Bahá does offer an interpretation of the numerical value of the beast which figures in Revelation 13:18, cited above. The Universal House of Justice in a letter dated 1 August 1978 written on its behalf to an individual believer, provided the following information about the Master’s interpretation:

‘Abdu’l-Bahá in a Tablet has given an explanation for the reference to the “beast” mentioned in Revelations 13:18, saying that the numerical value given to the beast in that passage referred to the date of the year, i.e. 666 A.D., when the Umayyad ruler arose. This is obviously a reference to Mu‘áwíyih, the Umayyad Caliph who opposed the Imamate. He speaks further on this subject in Some Answered Questions, Chapter XI.

For Mr. ...’s information, Mu‘áwíyih Ibn Abí Sufyán was born in Mecca in 602 A.D. and died in Damascus in 680. He assumed the Caliphate in 661 following the assassination of ‘Alí, the Fourth Caliph, thereby establishing the Umayyad dynasty, which ruled for 92 years. His reign was marked by prolonged and virulent opposition to the clan of Baní Háshim, to which ‘Alí’s household belonged. To date, the Research Department has not been able to determine the nature of the activities in which Mu‘áwíyih engaged during the year 666. (Universal House of Justice)

Mark of the Beast and Implanted Computer Chips

The problem is, that's false.

Anyway, you missed another one (or two). These are all claims you made, so I think you should not miss it.

1. Yet, what if the correct number is 616 as in several authoritative manuscripts? Have you considered that?
2. You say that it was Muawiyahs advent that was predicted in the book of revelations? How about all the other references to the "beast"? Is that extreme cherry picking again?

 

[loverofhumanity]

The problem is, that's false.

Anyway, you missed another one (or two). These are all claims you made, so I think you should not miss it.

1. Yet, what if the correct number is 616 as in several authoritative manuscripts? Have you considered that?
2. You say that it was Muawiyahs advent that was predicted in the book of revelations? How about all the other references to the "beast"? Is that extreme cherry picking again?

I only quoted what we have from Abdul-Baha. He interpreted the beast as being the Umayyads.

In that same letter the House of Justice mentions them also....


Mr. ... may be interested to know that two other references to the “beast” in Revelations were found in Tablets of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá; however, neither the exact chapter nor verse to which the Master’s interpretations referred was specified. In one of these Tablets, the “beast” is interpreted as the “murderous, impudent, famous Roman Emperor, and the like”; in the second as “the one who made his utmost efforts to obliterate the Cause of God, and that was the Persian king; a king from among the ancient kings”. The Research Department could not locate any authoritative reference as to the identity of the persons referred to by ‘Abdu’l-Bahá in these Tablets. (Universal House of Justice)

 

[firedragon]

I only quoted what we have from Abdul-Baha. He interpreted the beast as being the Umayyads.

I know that.

But again and again I keep asking the question. You said Muawiyah became Khalif and spun the Umayyad dynasty in 666. Its wrong date. It was 661.

You have not yet answered it LOH.