+_-~*Think About This*~-_+

[ΩRôghênΩ]

We can rely on God "knock and the door will be opened". The bible tells us that if we keep knocking on Adonais/Christs door, he will finnaly answer. Sadly to say, many answers to prayers go unnoticed. People usually expect something miraculous to happen, without realizing that God can come in physical reality. That the love of god can come through freinds cheering you up. that the love of god can come through good news about someone you grieve for. god uses this reality to comunicate, and alters it in mysterious ways to show us things. God wants to test us to see if we can point out what he is telling us without verbal communication. For instance, look at this:

Typical Jim


There was a man called him Jim, who lived near a river.
Jim was a very religious man.
One day, the river rose over the banks and flooded the town, and Jim was forced to climb onto his porch roof.
While sitting there, a man in a boat comes along and tells Jim to get in the boat with him.
Jim says "No, that's ok. God will take care of me."
So, the man in the boat drives off.
The water rises, so Jim climbs onto his roof.
At that time, another boat comes along and the person in that one tells Jim to get in.
Jim replies, "No, that's ok. God will take care of me."
The person in the boat then leaves.
The water rises even more, and Jim climbs on his chimney.
Then a helicopter comes and lowers a ladder. The woman in the helicopter tells Jim to climb up the ladder and get in.
Jim tells her "That's ok."
The woman says "Are you sure?"
Jim says, "Yeah, I'm sure God will take care of me.
Finally, the water rises too high and Jim drowns.
Jim gets up to Heaven and is face-to-face with God.
Jim says to God "You told me you would take care of me! What happened?" God replied "Well, I sent you two boats and a helicopter. What else did you want?"

 

[Druidus]

It is a fool who believes in the personal divine intervention of any deity.

Even if those Gods exist, they can't intervene in everday life for every little near-death situation. The balance of nature would be destroyed.

 

[CaptainXeroid]

...God wants to test us to see if we can point out what he is telling us without verbal communication...

I have also used this story to explain "Faith without works is dead." It is a good choice.:162: Here's another one along the same line.

Next to a small church was a vacant lot that was overgrown with weeds and tall grass. The church bought the lot and one Saturday, the members of the congregation pulled weeds, cut the grass, and planted flowers turning it into a nice little park. A few years later, the pastor retired, and they welcomed a new pastor with a picnic in the park. As they shared stories, the pastor mentioned the lovely park as evidence of God's works. One of the church old-timers said 'You should have seen it when God had it to himself.'

 

[Squirt]

It is a fool who believes in the personal divine intervention of any deity.

Well, I've been around a bit longer than you have, so I guess I'm not only a fool, but an old fool. (Not really happy about being called one, though.)

Even if those Gods exist, they can't intervene in everday life for every little near-death situation. The balance of nature would be destroyed.

"Every little near-death situation"? That's an interesting turn of phrase. God can and does intervene in our lives. I'm not saying that He always chooses to, but He certainly has the ability to. I know this because I've experienced it. If you haven't, that might explain your skepticism. Or maybe it's just the arrogance of youth.

 

[Druidus]

Well, I've been around a bit longer than you have, so I guess I'm not only a fool, but an old fool. (Not really happy about being called one, though.)

I never called you a fool.

God can and does intervene in our lives.

Believe as you will. I, however, have seen nothing of the sort. If God exists, he does not personally intervene because you want her to.

I'm not saying that He always chooses to, but He certainly has the ability to.

Omnipotent Gods do, usually, have the ability to do as they will.

I know this because I've experienced it.

Somehow, I doubt the your God intervened in your daily life because of a whim of yours.

If you haven't, that might explain your skepticism.

I am skeptical, yes, that a being of omnipotence has nothing better to do than to intervene in your daily life. Personally, I think he'd be better used in, say, Africa, where millions die of starvation, A.I.D.S., warfare, disease, standards of living no one should be subject to, and many other problems. Why is your life more important than theirs?

It is irrational to think that an all-merciful and all-loving God would rather spend his time randomly helping every random person with a prayer than to save those who die by the millions.

That's not to say I don't accept the possibility.

Or maybe it's just the arrogance of youth.

Call it what you will. Personally, I'd call it the logic of an unchained mind.

In closing, I'd like to note that I think you misinterpreted my orginal intent. When I said the remark about the fool, I meant that it is a fool who relies on a God, any God, without making any attempts to help himself.

 

[Majikthise]

Well, I've been around a bit longer than you have, so I guess I'm not only a fool, but an old fool. (Not really happy about being called one, though.)

"Every little near-death situation"? That's an interesting turn of phrase. God can and does intervene in our lives. I'm not saying that He always chooses to, but He certainly has the ability to. I know this because I've experienced it. If you haven't, that might explain your skepticism. Or maybe it's just the arrogance of youth.

You might have a few years on me, I don't know, but I don't believe in god at all.
Arrogance of .., middle age?

 

[ΩRôghênΩ]

It is a fool who believes in the personal divine intervention of any deity.

Even if those Gods exist, they can't intervene in everday life for every little near-death situation. The balance of nature would be destroyed.

Religiousforums is about learning, not bashing Druidus:tsk:

 

[ΩRôghênΩ]

I find this disrespectful that you would post that. I myself visited your thread about your friend, and i "tried to comfort you" about it. if it wanst good enough, im sorry.

 

[Ori]

I find this disrespectful that you would post that. I myself visited your thread about your friend, and i "tried to comfort you" about it. if it wanst good enough, im sorry.

Don't take it too personnal, Druidus isn't attacking you or anyone else.

 

[Druidus]

Religiousforums is about learning, not bashing Druidus

Harsh reality is not bashing. I'm not bashing. I'm stating my opinion. If you rely solely on any deity without putting effort into life yourself, you, like Jim, will fail to survive, and I will regard you as a fool.

If I was calling anyone a fool, I was calling "Jim" a fool.

I find this disrespectful that you would post that. I myself visited your thread about your friend, and i "tried to comfort you" about it. if it wanst good enough, im sorry.

I'm not trying to be disrespectful in any way. Take what I say as you will. I was merely remarking upon "Jim", in your original post, the one who relies on God without helping himself.

 

[Buttons*]

"god helps those who help themselves" .... i've heard that about 10million times

 

[Buttons*]

I am skeptical, yes, that a being of omnipotence has nothing better to do than to intervene in your daily life. Personally, I think he'd be better used in, say, Africa, where millions die of starvation, A.I.D.S., warfare, disease, standards of living no one should be subject to, and many other problems. Why is your life more important than theirs?

It is irrational to think that an all-merciful and all-loving God would rather spend his time randomly helping every random person with a prayer than to save those who die by the millions.

This is a FANTASTIC point

In closing, I'd like to note that I think you misinterpreted my orginal intent. When I said the remark about the fool, I meant that it is a fool who relies on a God, any God, without making any attempts to help himself.

This does remind me of the Christians I know. They pray for superficial and material things. "Pray that i pass this test"
"pray that my boyfriend still likes me"
"i want a new car"

.... *ugh*

 

[Buttons*]

That is exactly what I mean when I say that people have tendency to leave the spiritual heavy lifting to others.

*offers Buttons a fresh cupcake*

*takes cupcake with a huge grin* (like so: )

*giggles*

*eats cupcake VERY sexily and VERY slowly*

(we should just film it and put it on a comercial! ... THE EROTIC CUPCAKE!)

 

[Abram]

I feel he can intervene if you let him. But if you refuse that he can, then why would he. He can only help those who want his help. Just because the world has hurt and pain does not show that God won't interviene, only shows people abuse free will (another gift). He won't go cleaning up after everyones dog.
If you don't take a gift from a friend it does not change the point that it was given.

I liked this thread and was well written and showed a valid point.

Yes many pray for things and I don't think God just gives things to people because they ask. Prayer is not for us to tell God what we want. Prayer is God telling us whats he's doing.

 

[Druidus]

He won't go cleaning up after everyones dog.

If she exists, she doesn't clean up after anyone's dog, and rightfully so. Life is for us to experience. Negative situations are always learning experiences, and if a God intervenes without you learning anything, the situation - the experience; the knowledge, all of these are lost, forever.

 

[Abram]

If she exists, she doesn't clean up after anyone's dog, and rightfully so. Life is for us to experience. Negative situations are always learning experiences, and if a God intervenes without you learning anything, the situation - the experience; the knowledge, all of these are lost, forever.

True, true! Words of wisdom. Struggle and fear show weakness that can be turned to strength only by overcoming that weakness or fear.

 

[ΩRôghênΩ]

Harsh reality is not bashing. I'm not bashing. I'm stating my opinion. If you rely solely on any deity without putting effort into life yourself, you, like Jim, will fail to survive, and I will regard you as a fool.

it is foolish to make false assumptions. Where have i blatently stated that we must relyu on god for every moment. The point of the story isa to tell you that everyday things are from god, because god exists within all things. your anger overwhelms your understanding

 

[Jaymes]

"god helps those who help themselves" .... i've heard that about 10million times

I wonder where that comes from, since it appears nowhere in the Bible...

 

[Druidus]

it is foolish to make false assumptions.

Of course it is. It is foolish to assume anything without evidence or experience to sway you towards it.

Where have i blatently stated that we must relyu on god for every moment.

I never said I did. I think you are grossly misunderstanding my posts.

The point of the story isa to tell you that everyday things are from god, because god exists within all things.

I interpret the story as showing that you need to help yourself to get help from God. In my religion, the Source IS all things, and it is definately up to ourselves to help ourselves, not the Source.

your anger overwhelms your understanding

I'm not angry. I believe you are the one with the angry smiley. I think that you have grossly misunderstood my posts as bashings/attacks on your personal beliefs. They are not.

From the beginning, I agreed with several of your points in relation to Jim and the story about Jim.

 

[CaptainXeroid]

It is a fool who believes in the personal divine intervention of any deity.

Druidus, I think if you step back for a minute and re-read your first post, you can't help but understand how ~Lord Roghen~ and Squirt thought were you were 'bashing' in some manner. You may have intended that comment toward 'Jim', but you made it sufficiently vague that it was quite reasonable for someone to believe you were bashing people who believe in God's intervention.

I understood what you were saying because I've learned to take you with a grain of salt. You just need to realize that some of our more recent members are not as familiar with your wit.

I wonder where that comes from, since it appears nowhere in the Bible...

Benjamin Franklin published is in 1736 in Poor Richard's Almanac. Source.

*takes cupcake with a huge grin* (like so: )

*giggles*

*eats cupcake VERY sexily and VERY slowly*

(we should just film it and put it on a comercial! ... THE EROTIC CUPCAKE!)

The webcam REALLY should have been turned on for this part.:woohoo: