A bad weekend.

[M O N S T E R]

Okay, so some bloke had a bad weekend a couple thousand years ago and "suffered" for a few hours. Then, somehow, in some fashion, he gets raised up as a God with infinite power. Seriously? Sign me up. Raise me to live forever with the power to do anything, a mind that knows everything and I'll suffer for twice as long.

That's not suffering. It's a temporary inconvenience. The ones who suffered were the thousands of others who had been crucified by the Romans throughout time. The ones killed, tortured, maimed; the ones who live under disease through infection (or genetics); the ones who have birth defects and suffer from not only their condition, but the treatment of others. The ones who linger in hospital beds for years, in constant agony. Now that's suffering.

Jesus gets off easy. His suffering was nothing compared to that of countless others. Being God as well as his own son, he knew the pain he made himself endure would be short-lived. What terrors can death hold for someone who created it and knows it will pass? Epic Fail.

Also, can it be explained how someone can take away the guilt (and responsibility for restitution) from someone else? If an adult commits a crime, can his elderly mother take his place in prison? That's Justice? Mercy? Seriously?

 

[M O N S T E R]

None of you believers want to defend your favorite superhero?

 

[zenzero]

Friend MONSTER,

Jesus gets off easy. His suffering was nothing compared to that of countless others. Being God as well as his own son, he knew the pain he made himself endure would be short-lived. What terrors can death hold for someone who created it and knows it will pass? Epic Fail.

Good one you MONSTER!

Love & rgds

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

Okay, so some bloke had a bad weekend a couple thousand years ago and "suffered" for a few hours. Then, somehow, in some fashion, he gets raised up as a God with infinite power. Seriously? Sign me up. Raise me to live forever with the power to do anything, a mind that knows everything and I'll suffer for twice as long.

That's not suffering. It's a temporary inconvenience. The ones who suffered were the thousands of others who had been crucified by the Romans throughout time. The ones killed, tortured, maimed; the ones who live under disease through infection (or genetics); the ones who have birth defects and suffer from not only their condition, but the treatment of others. The ones who linger in hospital beds for years, in constant agony. Now that's suffering.

From the Christian point of view. Jesus did it willingly for others. He did not have to suffer but he did because of his love of humanity. You must give him points for that.

 

[M O N S T E R]

From the Christian point of view. Jesus did it willingly for others. He did not have to suffer but he did because of his love of humanity. You must give him points for that.

No, I must not. This mythical invisible superhero so many worship could just as easily snapped his fingers and "forgiven" without going through the whole sharade. His "suffering" was self-imposed. Is he some kind of cosmic masochist or what?

 

[zenzero]

Friend MONSTER,

No, I must not. This mythical invisible superhero so many worship could just as easily snapped his fingers and "forgiven" without going through the whole sharade. His "suffering" was self-imposed. Is he some kind of cosmic masochist or what?

No doubt, the theatre/film was titled *Jesus Christ, Superstar!*

Friend MONSTER, Well, would guess that to get the message across to the people he was addressing, get across to his audience [ jews] at that time must have required him to use drama, emotions etc. to be effective. That's fine with me; can't say about you.

He is no more, why dig old graves now? is that the way for *me*? is what is important, If yes, go ahead. If no, find something suitable and carry on.

Love & rgds

 

[dorsk188]

Granting the Jesus story is real, and on Christian terms. And God had all the best intentions from beginning to end. And the blood sacrifice of a single human being would wipe the slate clean for everyone else.

Granting all that: I'd do it, and far worse. I'd let the Devil drag me to hell, torture me into enternity. Complete annihilation if it will help. Not even to wipe the slate clean of "sin". If I could have been sacrificed to introduce germ theory a thousand years earlier (which would lead to substantively less worldwide suffering and illness) I'd put myself through eternal torment for the lives that could have been saved by understanding why people were getting sick in the first place. Or genetics. Norman Borlaug supposedly fed a billion people who would have otherwise starved. If he had asked me (and I was alive when he started his work): "You know, dorsk. I could do this, but I need a human sacrifice." I'd volunteer, no hesitation.

If Jesus' sacrifice were true (and made any kind of sense in the first place), then Jesus still didn't do anything I wouldn't do a thousand times over for my fellow humans.

But hey, it wouldn't have counted because I'm a wretched sinner, eh?

 

[dorsk188]

None of you believers want to defend your favorite superhero?

You show our Lord respect!
He broke the fourth wall for your sins!

 

[Phasmid]

Granting the Jesus story is real, and on Christian terms. And God had all the best intentions from beginning to end. And the blood sacrifice of a single human being would wipe the slate clean for everyone else.

Granting all that: I'd do it, and far worse. I'd let the Devil drag me to hell, torture me into enternity. Complete annihilation if it will help. Not even to wipe the slate clean of "sin". If I could have been sacrificed to introduce germ theory a thousand years earlier (which would lead to substantively less worldwide suffering and illness) I'd put myself through eternal torment for the lives that could have been saved by understanding why people were getting sick in the first place. Or genetics. Norman Borlaug supposedly fed a billion people who would have otherwise starved. If he had asked me (and I was alive when he started his work): "You know, dorsk. I could do this, but I need a human sacrifice." I'd volunteer, no hesitation.

If Jesus' sacrifice were true (and made any kind of sense in the first place), then Jesus still didn't do anything I wouldn't do a thousand times over for my fellow humans.

But hey, it wouldn't have counted because I'm a wretched sinner, eh?

It's easy to say that... quite another to actually do it.

Personally, I think most people are *****, screw going through that for them. If Jesus did go through all that, then it is indeed a great feat.

 

[Heneni]

Okay, so some bloke had a bad weekend a couple thousand years ago and "suffered" for a few hours. Then, somehow, in some fashion, he gets raised up as a God with infinite power. Seriously? Sign me up. Raise me to live forever with the power to do anything, a mind that knows everything and I'll suffer for twice as long.

That's not suffering. It's a temporary inconvenience. The ones who suffered were the thousands of others who had been crucified by the Romans throughout time. The ones killed, tortured, maimed; the ones who live under disease through infection (or genetics); the ones who have birth defects and suffer from not only their condition, but the treatment of others. The ones who linger in hospital beds for years, in constant agony. Now that's suffering.

Jesus gets off easy. His suffering was nothing compared to that of countless others. Being God as well as his own son, he knew the pain he made himself endure would be short-lived. What terrors can death hold for someone who created it and knows it will pass? Epic Fail.

Also, can it be explained how someone can take away the guilt (and responsibility for restitution) from someone else? If an adult commits a crime, can his elderly mother take his place in prison? That's Justice? Mercy? Seriously?

God suffered for a few hours. LOL....if you read the OT you will see that God suffered the Isrealites round about from the time he created them. (Actually he has suffered disgrace from the time Adam and Eve sinned) The Israeli God promised the jews just about every good thing you can think of if they would only listen to him. Instead they kept on going in reverse. Wouldnt you have been fed up with them after so many thousands of years? Would you put up with their dissobedience? There is no other 'god' that would put up with that kind of stuff. God has been 'suffering' disrespect for a very long time. Can you name me any other god that would have put up with a rebellious folk like He did? And to top it all of, punish himself for their indescressions just so that he wouldnt have to kill them instead. He made man he could have just as easily killed them all instead of having himself wipped and beaten for their rebellion just so that they could still have hope.

 

[gnomon]

Okay, so some bloke had a bad weekend a couple thousand years ago and "suffered" for a few hours. Then, somehow, in some fashion, he gets raised up as a God with infinite power. Seriously? Sign me up. Raise me to live forever with the power to do anything, a mind that knows everything and I'll suffer for twice as long.

That's not suffering. It's a temporary inconvenience. The ones who suffered were the thousands of others who had been crucified by the Romans throughout time. The ones killed, tortured, maimed; the ones who live under disease through infection (or genetics); the ones who have birth defects and suffer from not only their condition, but the treatment of others. The ones who linger in hospital beds for years, in constant agony. Now that's suffering.

Jesus gets off easy. His suffering was nothing compared to that of countless others. Being God as well as his own son, he knew the pain he made himself endure would be short-lived. What terrors can death hold for someone who created it and knows it will pass? Epic Fail.

Also, can it be explained how someone can take away the guilt (and responsibility for restitution) from someone else? If an adult commits a crime, can his elderly mother take his place in prison? That's Justice? Mercy? Seriously?

It took me a little bit to get your point. I understand it.

If Jesus, the myth, knew he was the Son of God and given the trinitarian view would possess knowledge of what his "sacrifice" meant it really is not much of a sacrifice. A true sacrifice would not have involved a Christ rising from the dead and ascending to heaven in body.

One of the reasons I never accepted the Christ story presented during my Baptist upbringing. Better to ignore the supernatural magical thinking and focus on the teachings of Jesus which mirror those of other religions.

It's a valid criticism but do not expect much in response. Those who focus on the story of a God who gave his only begotten Son often overlook the overall wisdom of the teachings. Probably because those teachings are not unique.

 

[dorsk188]

It's easy to say that... quite another to actually do it.

Well, unfortunately or fortunately, there are no real life scenerios like this. Pasteur didn't hold out for a human sacrifice. Borlaug didn't demand blood atonment for his advances in agriculture. But there are real life examples of human altruism. It happens every day when firefighters run toward a burning building when everyone else runs away.

And remember, Jesus supposedly was God. Seems to me that God could just forgive the sin if he wanted to, and all this was some sort of excuse. Maybe God's the kind of guy who likes to be... um...punished...:sarcastic

 

[LittleNipper]

No, I must not. This mythical invisible superhero so many worship could just as easily snapped his fingers and "forgiven" without going through the whole sharade. His "suffering" was self-imposed. Is he some kind of cosmic masochist or what?

No HE could not. HE had to follow a plan that would make whosoever holy and perfect once again.

 

[M O N S T E R]

No HE could not. HE had to follow a plan that would make whosoever holy and perfect once again.

So in other words, this invisible superhero is not all-powerful?