A bit Effeminate? Don't Count on Going to Heaven.

[Kenny]

I'll take that under advisement. .........................................................................Or maybe not.

.

LOL... I don't doubt it... if you did, it wouldn't say what you want it to say.

 

[Enoch07]

That still doesn't help your case, because the list of things you described so often described those who have been victims of abuse. And you still did mention "too kind," even though Jesus asked of his father to forgive his killers. A Jesus or Gandhi type of characters aren't exactly going to be in the running for "alpha of the year." But that is one of the reasons they are loved and remembered is because they weren't "alpha male" types but rather because of their kindness and messages of peace and hope and love.

Kind and too kind are two seperate things.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Kind and too kind are two seperate things.

The division is entirely subjective.

 

[Enoch07]

The division is entirely subjective.

Yes and decided only by God. Not by man. Which is why we as Christians should not be judging. I know a lot of us do. And the ones that do are wrong.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Yes and decided only by God. Not by man. Which is why we as Christians should not be judging. I know a lot of us do. And the ones that do are wrong.

But you are judging such people.

 

[Enoch07]

But you are judging such people.

Nope, I did not say they were going to hell or even heaven for it. Hence I have not judged them. Christians are told in the bible to not judge other people and to let God do that.

Because they are judging people saying your going to hell because of this or that. That is judgement in the biblical sense. Not pointing out when someone does something wrong.

Definitions matter.

 

[robocop (actually)]

I have done none of those things, yet if you read the whole chapter in context these people can still go to heaven!

1 Corinthians 6:11

11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

 

[Skwim]

Then I must ask why you made a thread about the translation choice of what was only the opinion of not even 1/4th of translators you investigated.

You only want expert opinions but chose to use the translation that only 24% used?? What's with that??

If you don't feel that 24% of the Bibles are misleading Christians is important, OR, maybe its 76%, then so be it.

.

 

[BilliardsBall]

It makes absolutely no difference to me what persons A, B, or C around here think words X, Y, or Z originally meant in their Hebrew, Aramaic, and Koine Greek forms. What is important is what the experts---the various scholars who put the bible together---concluded was the best English word to convey the meaning of a particular word as originally written. Of course the various interpretations of a word---there are at least 10 different interpretations of the Hebrew ra in Isaiah 45:7---doesn't speak well for their efforts (I suspect the individual needs of the backers of the various versions intervened), but it's still the best we have; far better than the over-confident speculations of scriptural dilettantes or the cock-sure conclusions of lone, self-styled Biblical academics.

Yet you chose a translation you found in 13 of over 50 translations only--making you that same self-styled decider, claiming that I who have studied Greek am less qualified than you to say what is a good translation!

Use that big brain you have, sir--many male prostitutes in the ANE and Rome were effeminate in practice. Rome looked down on homosexuals who were passive and not dominant. I know many gentle Christian men who speak softly, who are almost delicate in their outlook--but they are not male prostitutes who play a female-like role in homosexual prostitution.

 

[Sanzbir]

If you don't feel that 24% of the Bibles are misleading Christians is important, OR, maybe its 76%, then so be it.

Oooookay, but you also said in your OP:

So, what's going on? What's god's problem with men with feminine characteristics? A problem so appalling that it's as sinful as fornication and adultery.

Truthfully, I looked through the Bible trying to find a reason, but came up dry.

So which is it?? Is your problem the verse itself or the is your problem that minority translation is wrong and misleading??

It seems to me that your problem with the verse evolves to be whatever you need it to be in a given moment.

Your problem is what the verse says, unless someone questions you on the translation choice, then your problem with it is the fact that the minority translation is "misleading".

You accept the minority position of translators one moment, but retreat to a claim that you only care about the expert opinions another moment when you need a rebuttal to other people providing better translations.

At this point your point to me seems ephemeral. Can you please clearly state what your concrete position on the matter is going forward, and then stick to that position??

 

[Rise]

The english definition of effeminate is basically for men to act like women. So even your attempt to claim the greek word malakos only refers to soft characteristics is not consistent with those who have chosen to translate it as effeminate. Nor is there any way to determinate from the translation to what degree qualifies as effeminent. We can safely assume that a sin of effeminism, like any sin, is a choice. A choice a man makes that he wants to be like a woman that will express itself in a variety of ways, and to a variety of degrees - including taking the passive role in a homosexual relationship. We can assume that the choice is therefore a sin regardless of the degree to which it is expressed.

However, most translate malakos to mean the passive partner in a homosexual relationship, leaving little ambiguity. And scholarship seems to be in consensus on this translation based on ancient greek sources: Does the Greek word malakos refer to homosexual acts?

The effeminate translation reflects the fact that these people offen did not just play the passive partner, but dressed and acted like women. So while it is possible that a man who takes on the trans role of a woman but never is sexually active would fall under the english definiton of effeminate and be regarded as in sin, sexual perversion usually accompanies such transformations anyway so there may not be a need to even distinguish the two circumstances from each other.

It would therefore be completely wrong to misinterpret this verse to imply that a man who just doesnt "act manly enough", or just has a "soft" personality is in sin. That is completely different from a man making choice to become more womanlike in behavior and appearance, whether sexually or otherwise.

 

[Muffled]

In 24% of the Bible versions I looked at, 13 out of 55, god uses effeminacy as a reason to exclude men from heaven.

1 Corinthians 6:9 (NASB)
Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,
​

Which means you don't even need to be homosexual, just a little light in the loafers and you're out. Married and your wife is shooting out a young-un every October? It doesn't matter. If you're limp wristed and appreciate a well designed dress you'd better prepare for hell. Interestingly though, god evidently has no problem with butch women. A woman can wear plaid woolen shirts, don lumberjack boots, chew tabac and spit on the sidewalk, and she still gets to go through the pearly gates.

So, what's going on? What's god's problem with men with feminine characteristics? A problem so appalling that it's as sinful as fornication and adultery.

Truthfully, I looked through the Bible trying to find a reason, but came up dry.


What do you think?

.

I believe Paul may have been referring to cross dressing which is forbidden in the OT and covers both genders.

I believe it is the same as with homosexuality. It is an unnatural affection.

I notice you left that portion of the statement out. I believe the kingdom of God is not equivalent to Heaven.

I do not believe an instance of effeminate traits so called by our culture will be a a problem. I believe it is more a matter of a conscious effort to be like a woman and although it isn't stated that goes for women trying to be like men.

 

[Thief]

In 24% of the Bible versions I looked at, 13 out of 55, god uses effeminacy as a reason to exclude men from heaven.

1 Corinthians 6:9 (NASB)
Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,
​

Which means you don't even need to be homosexual, just a little light in the loafers and you're out. Married and your wife is shooting out a young-un every October? It doesn't matter. If you're limp wristed and appreciate a well designed dress you'd better prepare for hell. Interestingly though, god evidently has no problem with butch women. A woman can wear plaid woolen shirts, don lumberjack boots, chew tabac and spit on the sidewalk, and she still gets to go through the pearly gates.

So, what's going on? What's god's problem with men with feminine characteristics? A problem so appalling that it's as sinful as fornication and adultery.

Truthfully, I looked through the Bible trying to find a reason, but came up dry.


What do you think?

.

yeah I get it....a line drawn
and the guy with the chalk had an agenda

that's what I think

 

[DavidFirth]

1 Corinthians 6:11
11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.


Well, I guess that about wraps this thread up. Anymore questions, Skwim?

 

[Muffled]

I feel effeminate because I no longer stand up for myself now that my bones are broken and my knees damaged... I used to not care whether I got in a fight or getting punched didn't really bother me much... Now I'm weak and broken and it feels effeminate. Guess I'm going to hell

I believe if you have to guess then you will go there. I have some effeminate tendencies but I am assured that I am in the Kingdom of God.

 

[Thief]

I used to have long brown curly hair
and the ladies just LOVED it

was that a bad thing?

 

[Muffled]

yeah I get it....a line drawn
and the guy with the chalk had an agenda

that's what I think

I believe basically what Paul was saying was that a person who is saved does not practice sin. If a person thinks he/she can sin and be saved, that person is deceiving him/her self.

 

[Thief]

I believe basically what Paul was saying was that a person who is saved does not practice sin. If a person thinks he/she can sin and be saved, that person is deceiving him/her self.

I can't help but picture a guy that was too much a jock
to appreciate his fellowman having a more agile and graceful manner

 

[Muffled]

I used to have long brown curly hair
and the ladies just LOVED it

was that a bad thing?

I believe that depends on whether you were trying to look like a woman or just liked long hair.

 

[Thief]

I believe that depends on whether you were trying to look like a woman or just liked long hair.

picture a jock pushing around some skinny guy
with long brown curly hair
and the skinny guy just happens to know how to fight

ooooops!

if you can't beat them.......write something about them