A Bunch of Reasons Why I Question Noah's Flood Story:

[TagliatelliMonster]

God is not going to punish you for not believing in Noah's Ark.

But he supposedly IS going to punish me for not believing full stop.
I don't believe any magical claims from the bible for the exact same reason that I don't believe in the physically impossible arc and the flood that never occurred according to the evidence.

You are in denial, clearly.

The same reasoning applies to ANY claim in the bible.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

That's not what's going on.

That's exactly what is going on as per your own acknowledgement. You even were the one that brought it up.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Science provides great humanitarian aid through discovery.

I guess we are just going to ignore all secular humanitarian aid. Seeing as how you didn't actually address the point made and instead answered some question that was never asked.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

You're not picturing it right...

People progress.

They probably do have 2300 morals taught to them they just don't understand yet.

You make no sense.

If I have to learn algebra all by myself, discover it all by myself, it will take multiple lifetimes.
If a teacher explains it to me, I'll learn it in a year or 2.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Slavery with choice is better than Slavery wo I just still don't like it.

And married bachelors are attractive.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

That was to teach the Israelites.

The 10 commandments were always superior to the rest.

I love how you so casually sweep aside pure genocide and infanticide.
As if this doesn't require any further explanation or justification then "how, it was just some lesson, no big deal..."


How morally bankrupt can it get.................

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

And that was during Roman government!

You win the gold medal in avoiding the points being made.

1. you said the NT doesn't allow for slavery
2. I correct you by saying that NOWHERE in the NT does it say anything remotely like that. In fact, it says THE OPPOSITE: it tells slaves to obey their masters. It doesn't say "masters, free your slaves, slavery is bad!"

Your reply? A complete disregard of the point. What does it matter during what time it was? The point is about what the NT says. And nowhere does it say that one shouldn't keep slaves. Whenever it speaks about slavery, it is treated as a normal fact of life with no moral implications.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

People have always been very bad and yet God has been very merciful.

Engaging in, and commanding, multiple acts of genocide, one of which supposedly killed literally EVERYTHING except those on some physically impossible boat, is the very opposite of being merciful.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Think of it this way. Through different interpretation, God gave the same instructions to everyone and they reacted according to their moral level.

In other words: people have their own moral frameworks and read into scripture what they WANT to read into scripture.

So it's not the book telling them how to behave. It's them imposing on the book by twisting and turning, how they think they should behave.

This is why Gods always seem to have the same opinion as the believers.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

why would I just dump 1000s of years of tradition?

Do you think it is wise to hold on to tradition simply for holding on to tradition?


There's a long tradition of racism as well. Why would you just dump all those years of tradition?

Upholding tradition just for the sake of it, is quite stupid.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

If God wanted us to be as good as He was we would be Gods ourselves and not need Him.

And petty as he seems to be, he can't have that off course.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I suppose it's better to take the women than kill them. They would probably take the women anyway.

Ow, that's ok then.

That's another thing. When you have a vice like gambling or smoking, and you pray about it when you don't really intend to quit, how is your prayer supposed to be answered?

A better question would be: if you intend to do something, how is praying going to accomplish that?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

My moral compass is on the same level as yours.

CLEARLY, that is not the case at all.

I can accept that primitive people did not have as good of morals.

We aren't discussing the morals of the primitive people.
We are discussing the morals of a supposedly all powerful, all knowing god.

Unless you're saying that the bible reflects the primitive morals of the primitive people that conjured it up and wrote it. In that case, I would agree.

Yes, that's exactly why the bible has such immorality embedded in its contents... it's just a reflection of the standard of the culture that invented it.

This is why it sees no problems in slavery, barbarism, misogyny, genocide, infanticide etc.


But you don't believe that. You believe these morals, which you are now calling primitive, come from this all powerful god.

So it's this god that has primitive notions of morals - not just the people.

 

[tas8831]

That is absolutely insanely ridiculous.

Employment doesn't strip you from your basic rights, dignity and freedom.
An employer doesn't "owe" you.

To be fair, that was pretty much how it was in some places (in the USA) until labor laws went into effect. Worse, it is how some 'entrepreneurs' apparently want it to be again...

 

[tas8831]

You're not picturing it right...

People progress.

They probably do have 2300 morals taught to them they just don't understand yet.

Would they not have progressed immediately had Yahweh willed them to? Or taught them to? Or given them commandments earlier?

Truly consider what you are saying.

 

[tas8831]

God is not going to punish you for not believing in Noah's Ark.

Then why would He punish someone for being gay?

 

[tas8831]

You make no sense.

If I have to learn algebra all by myself, discover it all by myself, it will take multiple lifetimes.
If a teacher explains it to me, I'll learn it in a year or 2.

And if your teachers had been omnipotent - say they had the ability to create the universe or something - they could have just made you know algebra inside and out from day 1.

 

[tas8831]

I meant hopefully Christianity makes them less corrupt.

That would be nice, wouldn't it?

 

[F1fan]

That would be nice, wouldn't it?

View attachment 55926

How often do we hear about the selfless pastor being a good steward for the sake of the needy? But grifters like the above rake in huge dollars and buy themselves opulent lives. Disgraceful.

 

[robocop (actually)]

CLEARLY, that is not the case at all.



We aren't discussing the morals of the primitive people.
We are discussing the morals of a supposedly all powerful, all knowing god.

Unless you're saying that the bible reflects the primitive morals of the primitive people that conjured it up and wrote it. In that case, I would agree.

Yes, that's exactly why the bible has such immorality embedded in its contents... it's just a reflection of the standard of the culture that invented it.

This is why it sees no problems in slavery, barbarism, misogyny, genocide, infanticide etc.


But you don't believe that. You believe these morals, which you are now calling primitive, come from this all powerful god.

So it's this god that has primitive notions of morals - not just the people.

OK let me try to answer all your posts with two comments, and yes I goofed on the NT and slavery.

(1) Jews weren't ready for Christianity. God gave them a law that was all about the outward vessel, as in making it look good. They wanted to be good but they weren't so interested in the inner vessel, love, which Jesus Christ Himself would have to present. The OT law was to help them do the things so that they could survive, think well of themselves, and eventually understand Christianity. Christ was supposed to have changed everything to loving God and loving your neighbor and yourself, which of course has no flaw.

Yes they did what they were prepared for, and God just went along to gradually help them which doesn't tarnish God because He's perfect.

You don't need to treat a baby like a grownup... you can in fact treat a baby in a way that it will later understand is wrong.

The Israelites were very much like babies growing up. God even provided food and water for them. The Bible is all about different psychological stages of the Israelites growing up, among millions of other things.

You really might like the book, "The Psychology of God by Eric J. Kolb, Ph.D.!"

(2) The stories may be very complicated. The Tanach and the King James Version Bible are the simplest versions possible. Try Rabbi Samson Raphael Hirsch, very Jewish, written around 1900.

"From the Beginning God created the Heavens and the Earth. And the Earth was confused and tangled, and darkness was over the turmoil, and the Spirit of God brooded over the face of the waters."

The interpretation gets even more deep.

I believe in the geography, but I want to look further... if there's a deep interpretation that works I won't give up until I've given up on finding it. I am looking forward to reading Hirsch on Noah soon.

Also, there were flood myths in almost every ancient culture, but I think I know what you'll say about that.

Also, my church has its own doctrine about the scientifically-called flood myth, but you would just mock it.