A certain shiur style that I doesn't speak to me

[LAGoff]

I don't know what other Chabad rabbis are like, but I go to this certain Chabad sometimes (rarely) and the rabbi talks and talks and talks (during his formal and informal shiurim) but I don't get anything of it because he speaks in a peculiar style to.
I don't think this style is unique to this one Chabad rabbi. It seems to come so naturally to him that I assume its in the mix out there in some parts of the traditional Jewish world. Someday when I get the courage, I will ask him what this style is and how I can enter into this peculiar speech-world in order to get something meaningful out of it.
I have listened to other Chabad rabbis in the past (many years ago) and I seem to recall the same style and the same 'not-getting-it' (i.e. understanding).
Maybe you have been exposed to what I am talking about in your neck of the woods and can help me understand what it is, it's derivation, its method and -- of course -- how I should approach it in order to derive something from it.
Thanks

 

[Harel13]

and the rabbi talks and talks and talks (during his formal and informal shiurim) but I don't get anything of it because he speaks in a peculiar style to.

What other style is there?

 

[dybmh]

At the local Chabad where I live, the Chabad Rabbi's are much more regimented in their classes. There is always a book that they are working from, and there is very little improvisational discourse.

@LAGoff , maybe ask some of the other folks who are in attendance what they got out of the class? Also, you should be able to ask the Rabbi for a practical application of the class. Chabad Rabbi's ( IMO ) are good at making their classes applicable in the real world.

 

[LAGoff]

I don't go to 'classes'/courses. I know Chabad has those JLI courses, and I am sure the rabbi would communicate 'modernly' there, although I have never heard him communicate in that style yet.

I only mean (as this is the only time I go) the Sabbath morning 'sermon' after the reading of the Tora and before the Haftara and also his informal 'tishes' during the Sabbath 'morning' meal after. That's all I know.

During those times he goes into a kind of 'midrashic'?, homiletic? fugue state where -- I am trying hard to capture it as it so alien to me -- he will bring in 'Roychels' weeping for her children, a date (the fruit), the moon, all in -- for instance -- juxtaposition to the latest anti-Jewish shenanigans at the UN using 'homey' Ashkenazi inflected Hebrew pronounciation.

 

[Harel13]

During those times he goes into a kind of 'midrashic'?, homiletic? fugue state where -- I am trying hard to capture it as it so alien to me -- he will bring in 'Roychels' weeping for her children, a date (the fruit), the moon, all in -- for instance -- juxtaposition to the latest anti-Jewish shenanigans at the UN using 'homey' Ashkenazi inflected Hebrew pronounciation.

There are speaking styles like that - an ability to show how everything in the world is connected. As long as it's not too far-fetched, I think it can make for some pretty interesting ideas.

 

[LAGoff]

What other style is there?

What other style is there?

The kind of style that you would hear at a Reform or Conservative 'Temple' in Los Angeles during the Sabbath morning sermon where the rabbi is perfectly understandable.

 

[Harel13]

The kind of style that you would hear at a Reform or Conservative 'Temple' in Los Angeles during the Sabbath morning sermon where the rabbi is perfectly understandable.

Never heard a Shabbat sermon from a Reform or a Conservative rabbi. Sadly, I bet some live recordings or videos can be found online.

 

[Harel13]

homey' Ashkenazi inflected Hebrew pronounciation.

I'm trying to figure out why you don't understand this rabbi - is it the accent? What you refer to as 'homey' is simply the classic Ashkenazi pronunciation, known in Hebrew as Havarah Ashkenazit - הברה אשכנזית. I assume he talks like that because he grew up like that. It would probably be hard for him to change that, and for him it's practically traditional to talk that way - like growing a beard, wearing the Chabad fedora, etc.

 

[LAGoff]

There are speaking styles like that - an ability to show how everything in the world is connected. As long as it's not too far-fetched, I think it can make for some pretty interesting ideas.

Is there a name (a place/school) to this speaking style?

 

[Harel13]

Is there a name (a place/school) to this speaking style?

Nothing that comes to mind at the moment. But it does seem very chassidic like, especially with regards to Chabad who are quite modern and connected to the happenings in the world.

 

[LAGoff]

I'm trying to figure out why you don't understand this rabbi - is it the accent? What you refer to as 'homey' is simply the classic Ashkenazi pronunciation, known in Hebrew as Havarah Ashkenazit - הברה אשכנזית. I assume he talks like that because he grew up like that. It would probably be hard for him to change that, and for him it's practically traditional to talk that way - like growing a beard, wearing the Chabad fedora, etc.

No, he speaks like any other 'dude' from So Cal, though I detect a slight New York accent (so he might hail from there). He seems to be around 45 years old or maybe younger.

What does 'Havarah' mean? (Couldn't find it by Google)

 

[Harel13]

No, he speaks like any other 'dude' from So Cal, though I detect a slight New York accent (so he might hail from there). He seems to be around 45 years old or maybe younger.

That's not a contradiction: He learned English in New York or California, but he also learned Hebrew and probably also Yiddish from people with an Ashkenazi accent - so he got that too. Same way he has his Californian/NY accent for English, so too does he have an Ashkenazi accent for Hebrew/Yiddish (probably Aramaic too).

What does 'Havarah' mean? (Couldn't find it by Google)

It means pronunciation.

 

[dybmh]

I don't go to 'classes'/courses. I know Chabad has those JLI courses, and I am sure the rabbi would communicate 'modernly' there, although I have never heard him communicate in that style yet.

I only mean (as this is the only time I go) the Sabbath morning 'sermon' after the reading of the Tora and before the Haftara and also his informal 'tishes' during the Sabbath 'morning' meal after. That's all I know.

During those times he goes into a kind of 'midrashic'?, homiletic? fugue state where -- I am trying hard to capture it as it so alien to me -- he will bring in 'Roychels' weeping for her children, a date (the fruit), the moon, all in -- for instance -- juxtaposition to the latest anti-Jewish shenanigans at the UN using 'homey' Ashkenazi inflected Hebrew pronounciation.

Rochel's weeping and needing comfort might be coming from Zohar. There's an idea that Moshiach will comfort Rochel. Also, the moon, and the date-fruit.... this sounds like something connected to TuBishvat?

The political stuff I always ignore, FWIW. I find it to be in poor taste to make political statements in a religious context.

 

[LAGoff]

Rochel's weeping and needing comfort might be coming from Zohar. There's an idea that Moshiach will comfort Rochel. Also, the moon, and the date-fruit.... this sounds like something connected to TuBishvat?

The political stuff I always ignore, FWIW. I find it to be in poor taste to make political statements in a religious context.

I'm just spit balling with the Rochel weeping, date, moon thing. They just represent things/symbols that he might have used. In reality, they were just spit up from my subconscious.
I quickly perused some lectures on the parshas on Chabad.org and -- just like any Reform or Conservative Temple sermon -- they were perfectly understandable (completely done in contemporary style).
I will try to find sites that may have parsha of the week 'sermons' done in the style that resembles the rabbi and then report back here. Any ideas on where I should go on the web to find it?

 

[LAGoff]

I just looked up homiletics here: Homiletic Literature
and found something that seems to speak to my 'sheyala'.

"...Preachers and listeners, however, knew and regarded the literal meaning of the ancient texts. But listeners did not come to the derashah for an exegesis of the Bible in order to understand it better. That could be accomplished at home by studying well-known biblical and talmudic commentaries. It was expected that the derashah would show the contemporary relevance of the ancient texts. Further, the derashah was expected to be an artistic performance where seemingly unconnected ideas were suddenly shown to be related. It was accepted that the exegetical part of the sermon was, to some extent, a verbal game at which the preacher had to prove his mastery. He could, therefore, use any means of exegesis justified by tradition....
Ḥasidic literature of the 18th and 19th centuries is, from the point of view of literary forms, a direct continuation of the homiletic literature produced in Eastern Europe by preceding generations. Like most homiletic works, ḥasidic homilies are kabbalistic in ideology and moralistic in expression. *Ḥasidism, however, is the only religious movement in Judaism which made homiletic literature its dominant, and for a long time, almost exclusive means of expression."

"a verbal game at which the preacher had to prove his mastery"

This last quote made me suddenly recall some impressions of these 'derashas' from my times going to this Chabad shul.
I remember that during the Sabbath morning meal the rabbi would 'tish'(?) and 'drash' in 'his' peculiar style on a subject related to the parsha of the week; and then other people would speak. I recall that these other people would always use the same 'drashic' style as the rabbi. Several times I wanted to say something but I was completely disarmed by having to fit my contemporary-style approach to the exegesis of a Tora portion into the mold of the this 'drash' style. So I never spoke once in all my times there. I tried but I could never 'drash' this way! Though I was frustrated, I did appreciate -- along with the cholent and the other ambiences of a Chabad shul -- the authenticity of this approach.

Has anyone here ever been a 'party' to anything like this? (Now that I mention 'party', it makes me want to return there!)

 

[dybmh]

I will try to find sites that may have parsha of the week 'sermons' done in the style that resembles the rabbi and then report back here. Any ideas on where I should go on the web to find it?

Sorry. I have no idea about this.

 

[Jake1001]

Sorry. I have no idea about this.

Chabad ?