A challenge to all Christians

[URAVIP2ME]

He didn't specify what would be their cause of death, only that they would die.

I find Genesis 2:17 does state the cause of death: Eat and you will die.
By God saying Not to eat from His one-and-only tree then that was the law of the land.
By saying do Not eat was as if God put up a No trespassing sign on His tree.
They broke the Law of the Land and they paid the warning death-penalty price for their deliberate crime/sin.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Technically he becomes knowledgeable and must die for it. "And the LORD God said, 'The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.'" (Genesis 3:22) Its his knowledge that is the issue.
I'm thinking the same thing. They're going to die if they eat it and then they die after they eat it.

They did die after eating. True they did Not die within that 24-hour day, but they died within that 1,000-year day.
In other words, No one could live past 1,000 years.
I find Adam and Methuselah died before reaching age 1,000. Notice 950 years for father Adam as per Genesis 5:5.
Because we are innocent of what Adam and Eve did is why Jesus will come and undo all the damage that Adam and Satan brought upon us. This is to take place during Jesus' coming millennium-long day of governing over Earth for a thousand years.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Original sin was never a Biblical teaching.

My understanding of the word 'original ' would mean: first.
The first sin I find in Scripture was a lie told by Satan at Genesis 3:4 that Adam and Eve would Not die.
So, original sin for Satan was that he became the father ( or life giver ) to the lie - John 8:44.
Original or first sin for Adam and Eve was the crime of breaking God's 'law of the land' to Not eat from God's tree.
So, I don't understand how ' original ' or ' first ' sin is Not a Bible teaching because there was No sin here on Earth before Satan and Adam and Eve sinned. They started sin by being the first to originate sin. Adam and Eve by breaking God's do-not-touch from the forbidden tree law.

 

[Grandliseur]

Harikrish has presented scriptural verses that challenge the Christian teachings of original sin and how death came into the world. The scriptures give us a different reading of the account in Genesis that led to the banishment of Adam and Eve from the Garden of Eden and their fall from grace. God's own words incriminate Him.
First the scriptural evidence.

We know God created 2 special trees in the garden of Eden.
Genesis 2:9 The LORD God made all kinds of trees grow out of the ground--trees that were pleasing to the eye and good for food. In the middle of the garden were the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

God explains what each tree offered with a warning.
1. Tree of knowledge offered knowledge of good and evil.
Genesis 2:16 And the Lord God commanded the man, "You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die."
2. The tree of life offered immortality, anyone eating from it would live forever.
Genesis 3:22The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.

According to genesis 2:16 God told Adam not to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil for when he ate it he would die.

The talking serpent corrects Eve understanding about the poisonous tree of knowledge.
Genesis 3:Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, "Did God really say, "You must not eat from any tree in the garden"?"

2 The woman said to the serpent, "We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3 but God did say, "You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.""

4 "You will not certainly die," the serpent said to the woman. 5 "For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."

Now we have two opposing choices Eve is faced with (Eve's dilemma). Who spoke the truth God or the serpent?

1. Eat the fobidden fruit and you will die according to God to Adam.
2. Eat from it and their eyes will be opened and they will be like God knowing good and evil according to the serpent to,Eve.

Eve ate the forbidden fruit and gave some to Adam.
1. The first thing they noticed was their eyes were opened exactly as the serpent told Eve.
Genesis 3:7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they realized they were naked; so they sewed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves.

2. They did not die after eating the forbidden fruit. So God was lying.
Genesis 3:Then the man and his wife heard the sound of the Lord God as he was walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and they hid from the Lord God among the trees of the garden. 9 But the Lord God called to the man, "Where are you?"
10 He answered, "I heard you in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; so I hid."
11 And he said, "Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree that I commanded you not to eat from?"

3. God confirms in scriptures he was lying because he offers the same explanation as the serpent offered to Eve :" Eat from it and your eyes will be opened and you will be like God knowing good and evil."

Genesis 3:22 And the Lord God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."

God goes a step further and stops Adam and Eve from reaching out to take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."

So not only were Adam send Eve created as mortals. They were now denied access to the tree of life which would have allowed them to live forever. They certainly did not die as God had warned, in fact he said they would continue to live and work which totally contradicted his warning that they would die if they ate the firbidden fruit.

Genesis 3: 23 So the Lord God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken. 24 After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side[e] of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life.

So we know death did not come into the world because Adam and Eve ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Death come into the world when God killed the first animals to make garments of skin for Adam and Eve and because he denied access to Adam and Eve the tree of life which would have allowed them to live forever.

Die definition, to cease to live; undergo the complete and permanent cessation of all vital physiological functions; become dead.

Adam and Eve did not die (to cease to live; undergo the complete and permanent cessation of all vital physiological functions; become dead).after eating the forbidden fruit.

Adam and Eve continued to worship and thank the lord for their children. They even taught theur children to make offerings to a God. And God continued to communicate with Adam and Eve and their family.

Genesis 4:1 Adam[a] made love to his wife Eve, and she became pregnant and gave birth to Cain. She said, "With the help of the Lord I have brought forth[c] a man." 2 Later she gave birth to his brother Abel.

Now Abel kept flocks, and Cain worked the soil. 3 In the course of time Cain brought some of the fruits of the soil as an offering to the Lord. 4 And Abel also brought an offering"fat portions from some of the firstborn of his flock. The Lord looked with favor on Abel and his offering, 5 but on Cain and his offering he did not look with favor.

6 Then the Lord said to Cain, "Why are you angry? Why is your face downcast? 7 If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must rule over it."

So why did God punish the serpent when the serpent was proven right. It was God that lied.

Genesis 3:So the Lord God said to the serpent, "Because you have done this,
"Cursed are you above all livestock and all wild animals!
You will crawl on your belly and you will eat dust all the days of your life.
15 And I will put enmity between you and the woman,

But we know that curse never happened either because Satan is the ruler and God of the world.

2 Corinthians 4:4 Satan, who is the god of this world, has blinded the minds of those who don"t believe. They are unable to see the glorious light of the Good News. They don"t understand this message about the glory of Christ, who is the exact likeness of God.
Satan is also called the "prince of the power of the air" in Ephesians 2:2. He is the "ruler of this world" in John 12:31. These titles and many more signify Satan"s capabilities. To say, for example, that Satan is the "prince of the power of the air" is to signify that in some way he rules over the world and the people in it.

Christians are taught that it the because of the original sin committed by Adam and Eve that death came into the world. But there are no supporting scriptures that support their Christian teaching. What we discovered instead is God repeatedly lying .

There is further evidence in scriptures to show God is bumbling genocidal maniac a liar and voyeur and a rapist who changes his mind after committing the crime.

If there are any Christians out there who are sufficiently well versed in the Bible who can rebut these scriptural allegations. Please produce the scriptural verses that challenge these scriptural allegations so we may all learn the two sided nature of scriptures and how it is possible for God to speak from both sides of his mouth.

First off, this site is so overrun with atheists that there is no peace to answer things spiritual at all.

Secondly, you seem to have your dogma set in your mind. These things are very much about a harmonious interpretation, and if we have ca. 30000 different denominations calling themselves Christian, how do you think that if I cannot get them to agree that I would be able to agree with you! You are asking for the impossible on a site dedicated to atheism. Both things make this exercise unprofitable to pursue.

I could argue the scriptures with you, but you wouldn't agree though I have the background in the scriptures to do so.
When I see the way you treat the scriptures above, I know we have no common ground.

 

[Brickjectivity]

They did die after eating. True they did Not die within that 24-hour day, but they died within that 1,000-year day.
In other words, No one could live past 1,000 years.

Think of the fruit as the law. The direction to enter the garden is like the direction to enter the Temple -- West. The tent of meeting and temple are laid out like a journey to and from the garden of Eden (or the garden is laid out like them). As you travel towards the holy place you are going towards the ark in the same direction as if traveling to Eden and the tree of life, traveling West. You cannot go into the unreachable place behind its thick wall, cannot complete your journey. That way is guarded. At the wall there is probably some crying, listening and transformation, perhaps analogous to the praying which happens at the 'Wailing wall' in Israel today. In the holy place is bread laid on a table, and it just sits there making a nice smell. There is also a lamp that burns. There's always a smell of fresh bread and burning oil. The bread is not consumed, and the fire keeps burning. It is a puzzle.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Harikrish has presented scriptural verses that challenge the Christian teachings of original sin and how death came into the world. The scriptures give us a different reading of the account in Genesis that led to the banishment of Adam and Eve from the Garden of Eden and their fall from grace. God's own words incriminate Him.
First the scriptural evidence.

We know God created 2 special trees in the garden of Eden.
Genesis 2:9 The LORD God made all kinds of trees grow out of the ground--trees that were pleasing to the eye and good for food. In the middle of the garden were the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

God explains what each tree offered with a warning.
1. Tree of knowledge offered knowledge of good and evil.
Genesis 2:16 And the Lord God commanded the man, "You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die."
2. The tree of life offered immortality, anyone eating from it would live forever.
Genesis 3:22The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.

According to genesis 2:16 God told Adam not to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil for when he ate it he would die.

The talking serpent corrects Eve understanding about the poisonous tree of knowledge.
Genesis 3:Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, "Did God really say, "You must not eat from any tree in the garden"?"

2 The woman said to the serpent, "We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3 but God did say, "You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.""

4 "You will not certainly die," the serpent said to the woman. 5 "For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."

Now we have two opposing choices Eve is faced with (Eve's dilemma). Who spoke the truth God or the serpent?

1. Eat the fobidden fruit and you will die according to God to Adam.
2. Eat from it and their eyes will be opened and they will be like God knowing good and evil according to the serpent to,Eve.

Eve ate the forbidden fruit and gave some to Adam.
1. The first thing they noticed was their eyes were opened exactly as the serpent told Eve.
Genesis 3:7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they realized they were naked; so they sewed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves.

2. They did not die after eating the forbidden fruit. So God was lying.
Genesis 3:Then the man and his wife heard the sound of the Lord God as he was walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and they hid from the Lord God among the trees of the garden. 9 But the Lord God called to the man, "Where are you?"
10 He answered, "I heard you in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; so I hid."
11 And he said, "Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree that I commanded you not to eat from?"

3. God confirms in scriptures he was lying because he offers the same explanation as the serpent offered to Eve :" Eat from it and your eyes will be opened and you will be like God knowing good and evil."

Genesis 3:22 And the Lord God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."

God goes a step further and stops Adam and Eve from reaching out to take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."

So not only were Adam send Eve created as mortals. They were now denied access to the tree of life which would have allowed them to live forever. They certainly did not die as God had warned, in fact he said they would continue to live and work which totally contradicted his warning that they would die if they ate the firbidden fruit.

Genesis 3: 23 So the Lord God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken. 24 After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side[e] of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life.

So we know death did not come into the world because Adam and Eve ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Death come into the world when God killed the first animals to make garments of skin for Adam and Eve and because he denied access to Adam and Eve the tree of life which would have allowed them to live forever.

Die definition, to cease to live; undergo the complete and permanent cessation of all vital physiological functions; become dead.

Adam and Eve did not die (to cease to live; undergo the complete and permanent cessation of all vital physiological functions; become dead).after eating the forbidden fruit.

Adam and Eve continued to worship and thank the lord for their children. They even taught theur children to make offerings to a God. And God continued to communicate with Adam and Eve and their family.

Genesis 4:1 Adam[a] made love to his wife Eve, and she became pregnant and gave birth to Cain. She said, "With the help of the Lord I have brought forth[c] a man." 2 Later she gave birth to his brother Abel.

Now Abel kept flocks, and Cain worked the soil. 3 In the course of time Cain brought some of the fruits of the soil as an offering to the Lord. 4 And Abel also brought an offering"fat portions from some of the firstborn of his flock. The Lord looked with favor on Abel and his offering, 5 but on Cain and his offering he did not look with favor.

6 Then the Lord said to Cain, "Why are you angry? Why is your face downcast? 7 If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must rule over it."

So why did God punish the serpent when the serpent was proven right. It was God that lied.

Genesis 3:So the Lord God said to the serpent, "Because you have done this,
"Cursed are you above all livestock and all wild animals!
You will crawl on your belly and you will eat dust all the days of your life.
15 And I will put enmity between you and the woman,

But we know that curse never happened either because Satan is the ruler and God of the world.

2 Corinthians 4:4 Satan, who is the god of this world, has blinded the minds of those who don"t believe. They are unable to see the glorious light of the Good News. They don"t understand this message about the glory of Christ, who is the exact likeness of God.
Satan is also called the "prince of the power of the air" in Ephesians 2:2. He is the "ruler of this world" in John 12:31. These titles and many more signify Satan"s capabilities. To say, for example, that Satan is the "prince of the power of the air" is to signify that in some way he rules over the world and the people in it.

Christians are taught that it the because of the original sin committed by Adam and Eve that death came into the world. But there are no supporting scriptures that support their Christian teaching. What we discovered instead is God repeatedly lying .

There is further evidence in scriptures to show God is bumbling genocidal maniac a liar and voyeur and a rapist who changes his mind after committing the crime.

If there are any Christians out there who are sufficiently well versed in the Bible who can rebut these scriptural allegations. Please produce the scriptural verses that challenge these scriptural allegations so we may all learn the two sided nature of scriptures and how it is possible for God to speak from both sides of his mouth.

I’d like to say one thing (and I don’t want you to think ill of me, but I’m saying it to benefit you):

You are reading the same words that Newton, Boyle, Kepler, etc., had read, and it strengthened their faith in God and His Love. Do you really think that your opposite understanding of those events is more accurate than theirs?

Because your understanding is opposite. It destroys faith in God.
Might you be trying to understand this event, without taking all the Scriptures into consideration, ie., out of context? You are.

Here are some Scriptures that have a bearing on the events in the Garden of Eden account:

2 Peter 3:8, (to God) “a thousand years is one day.” They died within that “day”.

Romans 5:12....so there is a Scripture; remember, you said there wasn’t? (There are others.)

How loving would it be for God (1 John 4:8) to tell them, “If you eat from the tree, you’ll die,” if they didn’t know what death was?
That would be cruel.
They did understand, because they had seen the animals die. Jehovah God’s purpose for animals wasn’t to live forever, only man. As a son of God (Luke 3:38), Adam could have enjoyed that prospect. We can have that opportunity in the future...as humans!
— Revelation 21:3-4.

Take care.

 

[user4578]

I would say it is of the likeness of Ester 6:13, falling thou will fall, or dying thou will die; being an imperfect verb form, it indicates a continuous action, one which started on that day, and ended much later. Also related is Psalms 104:29, though it uses a different imperfect verb. Further, the original KJV 1611 has for Genesis 2:17 "dying thou shalt die" in the margin.

 

[Profound Realization]

Harikrish has presented scriptural verses that challenge the Christian teachings of original sin and how death came into the world. The scriptures give us a different reading of the account in Genesis that led to the banishment of Adam and Eve from the Garden of Eden and their fall from grace. God's own words incriminate Him.
First the scriptural evidence.

We know God created 2 special trees in the garden of Eden.
Genesis 2:9 The LORD God made all kinds of trees grow out of the ground--trees that were pleasing to the eye and good for food. In the middle of the garden were the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

God explains what each tree offered with a warning.
1. Tree of knowledge offered knowledge of good and evil.
Genesis 2:16 And the Lord God commanded the man, "You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die."
2. The tree of life offered immortality, anyone eating from it would live forever.
Genesis 3:22The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.

According to genesis 2:16 God told Adam not to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil for when he ate it he would die.

The talking serpent corrects Eve understanding about the poisonous tree of knowledge.
Genesis 3:Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, "Did God really say, "You must not eat from any tree in the garden"?"

2 The woman said to the serpent, "We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3 but God did say, "You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.""

4 "You will not certainly die," the serpent said to the woman. 5 "For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."

Now we have two opposing choices Eve is faced with (Eve's dilemma). Who spoke the truth God or the serpent?

1. Eat the fobidden fruit and you will die according to God to Adam.
2. Eat from it and their eyes will be opened and they will be like God knowing good and evil according to the serpent to,Eve.

Eve ate the forbidden fruit and gave some to Adam.
1. The first thing they noticed was their eyes were opened exactly as the serpent told Eve.
Genesis 3:7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they realized they were naked; so they sewed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves.

2. They did not die after eating the forbidden fruit. So God was lying.
Genesis 3:Then the man and his wife heard the sound of the Lord God as he was walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and they hid from the Lord God among the trees of the garden. 9 But the Lord God called to the man, "Where are you?"
10 He answered, "I heard you in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; so I hid."
11 And he said, "Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree that I commanded you not to eat from?"

3. God confirms in scriptures he was lying because he offers the same explanation as the serpent offered to Eve :" Eat from it and your eyes will be opened and you will be like God knowing good and evil."

Genesis 3:22 And the Lord God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."

God goes a step further and stops Adam and Eve from reaching out to take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."

So not only were Adam send Eve created as mortals. They were now denied access to the tree of life which would have allowed them to live forever. They certainly did not die as God had warned, in fact he said they would continue to live and work which totally contradicted his warning that they would die if they ate the firbidden fruit.

Genesis 3: 23 So the Lord God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken. 24 After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side[e] of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life.

So we know death did not come into the world because Adam and Eve ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Death come into the world when God killed the first animals to make garments of skin for Adam and Eve and because he denied access to Adam and Eve the tree of life which would have allowed them to live forever.

Die definition, to cease to live; undergo the complete and permanent cessation of all vital physiological functions; become dead.

Adam and Eve did not die (to cease to live; undergo the complete and permanent cessation of all vital physiological functions; become dead).after eating the forbidden fruit.

Adam and Eve continued to worship and thank the lord for their children. They even taught theur children to make offerings to a God. And God continued to communicate with Adam and Eve and their family.

Genesis 4:1 Adam[a] made love to his wife Eve, and she became pregnant and gave birth to Cain. She said, "With the help of the Lord I have brought forth[c] a man." 2 Later she gave birth to his brother Abel.

Now Abel kept flocks, and Cain worked the soil. 3 In the course of time Cain brought some of the fruits of the soil as an offering to the Lord. 4 And Abel also brought an offering"fat portions from some of the firstborn of his flock. The Lord looked with favor on Abel and his offering, 5 but on Cain and his offering he did not look with favor.

6 Then the Lord said to Cain, "Why are you angry? Why is your face downcast? 7 If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must rule over it."

So why did God punish the serpent when the serpent was proven right. It was God that lied.

Genesis 3:So the Lord God said to the serpent, "Because you have done this,
"Cursed are you above all livestock and all wild animals!
You will crawl on your belly and you will eat dust all the days of your life.
15 And I will put enmity between you and the woman,

But we know that curse never happened either because Satan is the ruler and God of the world.

2 Corinthians 4:4 Satan, who is the god of this world, has blinded the minds of those who don"t believe. They are unable to see the glorious light of the Good News. They don"t understand this message about the glory of Christ, who is the exact likeness of God.
Satan is also called the "prince of the power of the air" in Ephesians 2:2. He is the "ruler of this world" in John 12:31. These titles and many more signify Satan"s capabilities. To say, for example, that Satan is the "prince of the power of the air" is to signify that in some way he rules over the world and the people in it.

Christians are taught that it the because of the original sin committed by Adam and Eve that death came into the world. But there are no supporting scriptures that support their Christian teaching. What we discovered instead is God repeatedly lying .

There is further evidence in scriptures to show God is bumbling genocidal maniac a liar and voyeur and a rapist who changes his mind after committing the crime.

If there are any Christians out there who are sufficiently well versed in the Bible who can rebut these scriptural allegations. Please produce the scriptural verses that challenge these scriptural allegations so we may all learn the two sided nature of scriptures and how it is possible for God to speak from both sides of his mouth.

I like this explanation.

Adam and Eve: The Story of Human Consciousness

 

[Ingledsva]

First off, this site is so overrun with atheists that there is no peace to answer things spiritual at all.

Apparently you didn't notice you are in a debate section?

And this site is not overrun with Atheists. This site has Agnostics, Atheists, and many religions.

That is what makes it so interesting here.

Secondly, you seem to have your dogma set in your mind. These things are very much about a harmonious interpretation, and if we have ca. 30000 different denominations calling themselves Christian, how do you think that if I cannot get them to agree that I would be able to agree with you!

Obviously so do you.

You are asking for the impossible on a site dedicated to atheism. Both things make this exercise unprofitable to pursue.

How many time are you going to say such baloney?

I could argue the scriptures with you, but you wouldn't agree though I have the background in the scriptures to do so.
When I see the way you treat the scriptures above, I know we have no common ground.

This is usually the kind of reply we get when someone can't rebut the other person's rebuttal.

*

 

[Grandliseur]

Apparently you didn't notice you are in a debate section?

And this site is not overrun with Atheists. This site has Agnostics, Atheists, and many religions.

That is what makes it so interesting here.

Obviously so do you.

How many time are you going to say such baloney?

This is usually the kind of reply we get when someone can't rebut the other person's rebuttal.

*

I will answer you this once. Did you notice the name of this site? Religious Forums, in case you missed it. I didn't come here to debate atheists or unbelievers.

Not interested in your or their beliefs. If there is an interesting exchange that is a bit fun, fine. All this other mean stuff, frankly keep it to yourself. There is very little religious communication on this site, and when there is - it is met by a legion of atheists.

I am sure you are going to have the last word in this exchange, it seems the way of the atheist here. I will let you have it for I shall not answer your next post if any.

 

[Ingledsva]

I will answer you this once. Did you notice the name of this site? Religious Forums, in case you missed it. I didn't come here to debate atheists or unbelievers.

Not interested in your or their beliefs. If there is an interesting exchange that is a bit fun, fine. All this other mean stuff, frankly keep it to yourself. There is very little religious communication on this site, and when there is - it is met by a legion of atheists.

I am sure you are going to have the last word in this exchange, it seems the way of the atheist here. I will let you have it for I shall not answer your next post if any.

Apparently you also didn't notice that there are other forums besides religion on this site.

Also, everyone on the site can join in religious debates, - religious or not, - because religion affects them.

*

 

[Harikrish]

The Bible should be regarded as a Guidebook. It is definitely not a book of facts. The teachings are couched in parable. But the Truth is there to be found by the discerning student.

Christ confirms:

“I have used proverbs to tell you these things, but the time is coming when the truth shall not be so veiled and I will speak to you plainly about the Father.” (JN 16)

“If you adhere to my teaching, you will really be my disciples; and you shall know the Truth and the Truth shall make you free.” (JN 8)

“Oh, there is so much more I want to tell you, but you cannot understand it now. When the Spirit of Holiness and Truth comes, he will guide you into all truth.” (JN 16)

“But the Comforter, which is the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.” (JN 14)

Christ is saying that there is a “Truth” that we do not yet know because he has not yet revealed it and that the Bible itself does not contain this in all that is written there. But New Teachings will be administered at a later time, when he returns and the Holy Spirit comes.

That time is here, now >
https://www.religiousforums.com/threads/the-all-truth-of-the-holy-spirit.203087/
Nostradamus and Edgar Cayce: Christ is here, now

From: http://innerquest1.blogspot.com/2006/10/the-spirit-self-and-tree-of-good-and.html.

“This is the Biblical parable that describes our real nature and clarifies the true meaning and purpose of life here on earth. This is who we really are and why we are here. Once we can come to realize this Truth, then even the mysteries will unravel. We can begin to understand.”

If Jesus had spoken truthfully and plainly people might have understood him. But instead, he only spoke in parables that no one understood which was the primary reason they rejected and crucified him.
John 16:25 "Though I have been speaking figuratively, a time is coming when I will no longer use this kind of language but will tell you plainly about my Father.

 

[Harikrish]

Romans says: "To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not charged against anyone’s account where there is no law." (NIV Romans 5:13) So according to that the fruit is the law or is like it in that it reveals and therefore makes you responsible for your actions. Why does Adam, knowing full well it will kill him, eat the fruit? You have not answered that. I think it is because he wants to know, as do we; and what is wrong with that? I don't see anything wrong with it. Who wants to live in bliss never knowing or understanding anything?

A law or command is null and void if it is based on a false premise. God told Adam not to eat the forbidden fruit for in/on the day he ate it he would die. Eve consulted with the serpent who assured her she would not die but become like God, that God was lying. It turns out the serpent was right, Eve ate the fruit and did not die. So God was lying. Adam saw Eve was still alive after eating the forbidden fruit and he ate some too. The serpent was right their eyes were opened and even God confirmed they became like God. So the command was based on a lie, a false premise and therefore null and void.

 

[Harikrish]

Actually this may not follow, because they are condemned as a result. Adam does die, and all of his children descend into increasing violence.

I am not sure that is the point the writer wants to make. God (or the LORD? I don't remember which term) says that because they have eaten the fruit they must not be allowed the tree of life, but they were already made aware of that before eating it.

God did not tell them what the tree of life was for. It is only after they ate the fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil and because it made them like God, God was resentful and decided to deny them access to the tree of life which would have allowed them to live forever.

God confirms in scriptures he was lying because he offers the same explanation as the serpent offered to Eve :" Eat from it and your eyes will be opened and you will be like God knowing good and evil."

Genesis 3:22 And the Lord God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."

God goes a step further and stops Adam and Eve from reaching out to take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."

So not only were Adam send Eve created as mortals. They were now denied access to the tree of life which would have allowed them to live forever. They certainly did not die as God had warned, in fact he said they would continue to live and work which totally contradicted his warning that they would die if they ate the firbidden fruit.

Genesis 3: 23 So the Lord God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken. 24 After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side[e] of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life.

So we know death did not come into the world because Adam and Eve ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Death come into the world when God killed the first animals to make garments of skin for Adam and Eve and because he denied access to Adam and Eve the tree of life which would have allowed them to live forever.

Thank you for responding to my OP.

 

[Harikrish]

He didn't specify what would be their cause of death, only that they would die.

The scriptures are clear about God's warning.

God did say to Adam when he ate the fruit he would certainly die. Adam at the fruit but didn't die. He went on to live to 930 years, longer than any known human. The fruit actually prolonged his life.

The KJV is more useful here.
Genesis 2:16-17King James Version (KJV)
16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Here we see God saying specifically in/on that day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. The fruit from the tree of life was supposed to be poisonous. But we know from the serpent it was just to scare them because the fruit would actually open their eyes and they would become like God possessing the knowledge of good and evil. God had ulterior motives for keeping the couple stupid. He like watching then running around naked.

 

[Kemosloby]

The scriptures are clear about God's warning.

God did say to Adam when he ate the fruit he would certainly die. Adam at the fruit but didn't die. He went on to live to 930 years, longer than any known human. The fruit actually prolonged his life.

The KJV is more useful here.
Genesis 2:16-17King James Version (KJV)
16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Here we see God saying specifically in/on that day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. The fruit from the tree of life was supposed to be poisonous. But we know from the serpent it was just to scare them because the fruit would actually open their eyes and they would become like God possessing the knowledge of good and evil. God had ulterior motives for keeping the couple stupid. He like watching then running around naked.

You just refuse to get it. Adam and Eve were immortal before eating the fruit. They could have been alive for a million years for all we know. But after they ate the fruit they became mortal flesh and died within the 1,000 year day as God said they would.

2 Peter 3:8 But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.

 

[blü 2]

Adam and Eve were immortal before eating the fruit.

No, the Garden Story expressly denies that Adam and Eve were immortal. In Genesis 3, God states his reasons for expelling Adam and Eve from the Garden (note that sin and disobedience are not mentioned):

22 Then the Lord God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil; and now, lest he put forth his hand and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever" ─ 23 therefore the Lord God sent him forth from the garden of Eden.
​

That is, it was to STOP Adam and Eve from becoming immortal, and thereby becoming equals of God.

 

[Kemosloby]

No, the Garden Story expressly denies that Adam and Eve were immortal. In Genesis 3, God states his reasons for expelling Adam and Eve from the Garden (note that sin and disobedience are not mentioned):

22 Then the Lord God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil; and now, lest he put forth his hand and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever" ─ 23 therefore the Lord God sent him forth from the garden of Eden.
​

That is, it was to STOP Adam and Eve from becoming immortal, and thereby becoming equals of God.

They had already been living forever on the tree of life. Lest they reach forth and continue eating from the tree of life and live forever. Being expelled from the garden cut them off from the immortality provided them by eating from the tree of life.

 

[blü 2]

They had already been living forever on the tree of life. Lest they reach forth and continue eating from the tree of life and live forever. Being expelled from the garden cut them off from the immortality provided them by eating from the tree of life.

You can't have read it, or you'd know it says nothing of the kind.

Or to put that another way, quote me the verse that says they ever ate from the tree of life at any point.

 

[Kemosloby]

You can't have read it, or you'd know it says nothing of the kind.

Or to put that another way, quote me the verse that says they ever ate from the tree of life at any point.

Quote me a verse that says they didn't. They were free to eat from every tree except the tree of knowledge. There is no reason to believe they had not been eating from the tree of life.