A challenge to all Christians

[Kenny]

Man was created in God's image. Image as in appearance only, because it was only after they ate from the tree of knowledge were their eyes opened and they became like God knowing good and evil.
God confirms that when he tells his angels now that they have become like us knowing good and evil, let us not allow them to reach and also eat from the tree of life and live forever.

Disagree completely. There were more than just "in appearance only". They had all the qualities wisdom (naming of animals), prophetic (man and woman becoming one flesh as God and man become one), creative capacity (expand the garden), faith and love, etc.

No spiritual life was offered in Genesis only physical life. Therefore no spiritual death could have occurred. There is no mention of anyone dying from spiritual death in the bible.

Disagree.... they were created for eterninty even as eternity is offered now though Jesus Christ.

As far as spiritual death... it is all over the Bible, just one being, Rom 6:16 Surely you know that when you give yourselves like slaves to obey someone, then you are really slaves of that person. The person you obey is your master. You can follow sin, which brings spiritual death, or you can obey God, which makes you right with him.

The serpent told Eve she would certainly not die from eating the fruit, that God knew her eyes would be opened and she would become like God knowing good send evil.

Negatory, my friend. Eve said "I can't touch it"(not what God said)... all the serpent said was "you wont' die". She touched it and didn't die because it wasn't what God said.

God confirmed what the serpent shared with Eve now that their eyes were opened they became like God.
When Adam saw Eve was still alive after eating the fruit, he took some and ate it too.

Yes, they now EXPERIENCIALLY know good and evil, life and death like God... but they were already like God.

Scriptures prove God was not all that omni???. God did not know where they were hiding and who told them they were naked. Did they eat from the forbidden tree? He didn't even know there was a crafty talking serpent in the garden.

That is your personal interpretation. My daughter saw a big finger gash in the chocolate cake and asked her four year old son who had a BIG chocolate smudge on is face "Silas, did you eat some of the cake?" She knew already (like unto God) but asked the question anyways.

So, I disagree. God asks many questions of man that He already knows the answers to.

Job 4 “Where were you when I laid the earth’s foundation? Tell me, if you understand.

God knew where Job was when He laid the foundation... but asked anyways.

The same ground that produced abundance of vegetation, animals, birds and fish. Sounds like a big move up from a restricted garden.

Bad exegesis. Adam could grow the Garden of Eden all over the world with no sweat... now it says, "
18 It will produce thorns and thistles for you, and you will eat the plants of the field.
19By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food until you return to the ground, since from it you were taken; for dust you are and to dust you will return.”

And THAT is suppose to be like God?

No messiah. God raped Mary to produce Jesus. Luke 3:23
Jesus was crucified by the Romans. Jesus lamented on the cross:" My God, my God why have you forsaken me?

VERY BAD exegesis. Personal opinions. No scriptural support. Lousy applications.

Just your opinions which are easily rebutted by scriptures.

hahahaha.... HAHAHAHAhahaha.... HAHAHAHAHAHA!!

You are just too funny.

 

[Phantasman]

Harikrish has presented scriptural verses that challenge the Christian teachings of original sin and how death came into the world. The scriptures give us a different reading of the account in Genesis that led to the banishment of Adam and Eve from the Garden of Eden and their fall from grace. God's own words incriminate Him.
First the scriptural evidence.

We know God created 2 special trees in the garden of Eden.
Genesis 2:9 The LORD God made all kinds of trees grow out of the ground--trees that were pleasing to the eye and good for food. In the middle of the garden were the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

God explains what each tree offered with a warning.
1. Tree of knowledge offered knowledge of good and evil.
Genesis 2:16 And the Lord God commanded the man, "You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die."
2. The tree of life offered immortality, anyone eating from it would live forever.
Genesis 3:22The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.

According to genesis 2:16 God told Adam not to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil for when he ate it he would die.

The talking serpent corrects Eve understanding about the poisonous tree of knowledge.
Genesis 3:Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, "Did God really say, "You must not eat from any tree in the garden"?"

2 The woman said to the serpent, "We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3 but God did say, "You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.""

4 "You will not certainly die," the serpent said to the woman. 5 "For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."

Now we have two opposing choices Eve is faced with (Eve's dilemma). Who spoke the truth God or the serpent?

1. Eat the fobidden fruit and you will die according to God to Adam.
2. Eat from it and their eyes will be opened and they will be like God knowing good and evil according to the serpent to,Eve.

Eve ate the forbidden fruit and gave some to Adam.
1. The first thing they noticed was their eyes were opened exactly as the serpent told Eve.
Genesis 3:7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they realized they were naked; so they sewed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves.

2. They did not die after eating the forbidden fruit. So God was lying.
Genesis 3:Then the man and his wife heard the sound of the Lord God as he was walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and they hid from the Lord God among the trees of the garden. 9 But the Lord God called to the man, "Where are you?"
10 He answered, "I heard you in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; so I hid."
11 And he said, "Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree that I commanded you not to eat from?"

3. God confirms in scriptures he was lying because he offers the same explanation as the serpent offered to Eve :" Eat from it and your eyes will be opened and you will be like God knowing good and evil."

Genesis 3:22 And the Lord God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."

God goes a step further and stops Adam and Eve from reaching out to take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."

So not only were Adam send Eve created as mortals. They were now denied access to the tree of life which would have allowed them to live forever. They certainly did not die as God had warned, in fact he said they would continue to live and work which totally contradicted his warning that they would die if they ate the firbidden fruit.

Genesis 3: 23 So the Lord God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken. 24 After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side[e] of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life.

So we know death did not come into the world because Adam and Eve ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Death come into the world when God killed the first animals to make garments of skin for Adam and Eve and because he denied access to Adam and Eve the tree of life which would have allowed them to live forever.

Die definition, to cease to live; undergo the complete and permanent cessation of all vital physiological functions; become dead.

Adam and Eve did not die (to cease to live; undergo the complete and permanent cessation of all vital physiological functions; become dead).after eating the forbidden fruit.

Adam and Eve continued to worship and thank the lord for their children. They even taught theur children to make offerings to a God. And God continued to communicate with Adam and Eve and their family.

Genesis 4:1 Adam[a] made love to his wife Eve, and she became pregnant and gave birth to Cain. She said, "With the help of the Lord I have brought forth[c] a man." 2 Later she gave birth to his brother Abel.

Now Abel kept flocks, and Cain worked the soil. 3 In the course of time Cain brought some of the fruits of the soil as an offering to the Lord. 4 And Abel also brought an offering"fat portions from some of the firstborn of his flock. The Lord looked with favor on Abel and his offering, 5 but on Cain and his offering he did not look with favor.

6 Then the Lord said to Cain, "Why are you angry? Why is your face downcast? 7 If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must rule over it."

So why did God punish the serpent when the serpent was proven right. It was God that lied.

Genesis 3:So the Lord God said to the serpent, "Because you have done this,
"Cursed are you above all livestock and all wild animals!
You will crawl on your belly and you will eat dust all the days of your life.
15 And I will put enmity between you and the woman,

But we know that curse never happened either because Satan is the ruler and God of the world.

2 Corinthians 4:4 Satan, who is the god of this world, has blinded the minds of those who don"t believe. They are unable to see the glorious light of the Good News. They don"t understand this message about the glory of Christ, who is the exact likeness of God.
Satan is also called the "prince of the power of the air" in Ephesians 2:2. He is the "ruler of this world" in John 12:31. These titles and many more signify Satan"s capabilities. To say, for example, that Satan is the "prince of the power of the air" is to signify that in some way he rules over the world and the people in it.

Christians are taught that it the because of the original sin committed by Adam and Eve that death came into the world. But there are no supporting scriptures that support their Christian teaching. What we discovered instead is God repeatedly lying .

There is further evidence in scriptures to show God is bumbling genocidal maniac a liar and voyeur and a rapist who changes his mind after committing the crime.

If there are any Christians out there who are sufficiently well versed in the Bible who can rebut these scriptural allegations. Please produce the scriptural verses that challenge these scriptural allegations so we may all learn the two sided nature of scriptures and how it is possible for God to speak from both sides of his mouth.

You are citing (and seeing) the ignorance of the false god who misled the Jews. The tree of life gave man something he didn't have. A spirit. As flesh and soul, Adam and Eve were just as the animals. They were being lied to by a creator of imperfection. The one who created imperfect flesh and soul. Only the spirit (gained by spiritual gnosis) can save man from death. The tree of life gave the knowledge of true life from the true God:

"And the archons took him and placed him in paradise. And they said to him, 'Eat, that is at leisure,' for their luxury is bitter and their beauty is depraved. And their luxury is deception and their trees are godlessness and their fruit is deadly poison and their promise is death. And the tree of their life they had placed in the midst of paradise.

"And I shall teach you (pl.) what is the mystery of their life, which is the plan which they made together, which is the likeness of their spirit. The root of this (tree) is bitter and its branches are death, its shadow is hate and deception is in its leaves, and its blossom is the ointment of evil, and its fruit is death and desire is its seed, and it sprouts in darkness. The dwelling place of those who taste from it is Hades, and the darkness is their place of rest.

"But what they call the tree of knowledge of good and evil, which is the Epinoia of the light, they stayed in front of it in order that he (Adam) might not look up to his fullness and recognize the nakedness of his shamefulness. But it was I who brought about that they ate."

And to I said to the savior, "Lord, was it not the serpent that taught Adam to eat?" The savior smiled and said, "The serpent taught them to eat from wickedness of begetting, lust, (and) destruction, that he (Adam) might be useful to him. And he (Adam) knew that he was disobedient to him (the chief archon) due to light of the Epinoia which is in him, which made him more correct in his thinking than the chief archon. And (the latter) wanted to bring about the power which he himself had given him. And he brought a forgetfulness over Adam."- Apocryphon of John

Jesus was before Abraham, and gave us the spirit from the beginning:

John:
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

John:
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from thebeginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Jesus came to teach us the "mystery of life" as in what John says in his Gospel and Secret Book.

Ephesians:
And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

Colossians:
25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;
26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:

The Hebrews never knew the mystery, nor had the knowledge because the Spirit (Capital S) was given by Christ who brought it and gave it to man.

Mark:
And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:

The "mystery" is understood through spiritual knowledge (Christian gnosis).

 

[Thief]

The KJV is correct, as it does say day. I just looked it up in the Hebrew.

*

and a day in the life of God is like unto a thousand years

how old was Adam when he died?

 

[Faithofchristian]

You are citing (and seeing) the ignorance of the false god who misled the Jews. The tree of life gave man something he didn't have. A spirit. As flesh and soul, Adam and Eve were just as the animals. They were being lied to by a creator of imperfection. The one who created imperfect flesh and soul. Only the spirit (gained by spiritual gnosis) can save man from death. The tree of life gave the knowledge of true life from the true God:

"And the archons took him and placed him in paradise. And they said to him, 'Eat, that is at leisure,' for their luxury is bitter and their beauty is depraved. And their luxury is deception and their trees are godlessness and their fruit is deadly poison and their promise is death. And the tree of their life they had placed in the midst of paradise.

"And I shall teach you (pl.) what is the mystery of their life, which is the plan which they made together, which is the likeness of their spirit. The root of this (tree) is bitter and its branches are death, its shadow is hate and deception is in its leaves, and its blossom is the ointment of evil, and its fruit is death and desire is its seed, and it sprouts in darkness. The dwelling place of those who taste from it is Hades, and the darkness is their place of rest.

"But what they call the tree of knowledge of good and evil, which is the Epinoia of the light, they stayed in front of it in order that he (Adam) might not look up to his fullness and recognize the nakedness of his shamefulness. But it was I who brought about that they ate."

And to I said to the savior, "Lord, was it not the serpent that taught Adam to eat?" The savior smiled and said, "The serpent taught them to eat from wickedness of begetting, lust, (and) destruction, that he (Adam) might be useful to him. And he (Adam) knew that he was disobedient to him (the chief archon) due to light of the Epinoia which is in him, which made him more correct in his thinking than the chief archon. And (the latter) wanted to bring about the power which he himself had given him. And he brought a forgetfulness over Adam."- Apocryphon of John

Jesus was before Abraham, and gave us the spirit from the beginning:

John:
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

John:
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from thebeginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Jesus came to teach us the "mystery of life" as in what John says in his Gospel and Secret Book.

Ephesians:
And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

Colossians:
25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;
26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:

The Hebrews never knew the mystery, nor had the knowledge because the Spirit (Capital S) was given by Christ who brought it and gave it to man.

Mark:
And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:

The "mystery" is understood through spiritual knowledge (Christian gnosis).

Can you explain what Jesus ment by in John 6:63 --"It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you , they are spirit, and they are life"

What scripture can you use that will support what Jesus said in John 6:63 ?

 

[Phantasman]

Can you explain what Jesus ment by in John 6:63 --"It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you , they are spirit, and they are life"

What scripture can you use that will support what Jesus said in John 6:63 ?

This is just a sample. There are more Canon and even more non Canon. But don't expect much in the OT.

It's the basis for "spiritual" knowledge (gnosis). Not the laws of flesh.

John:
14 Jesus answered and said unto them, Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true: for I know whence I came, and whither I go; but ye cannot tell whence I come, and whither I go.
15 Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man.

Matthew:
No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

John:
That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Born again is born of the Spirit (capital S), something that wasn't possible until Jesus brought it upon himself as the Christ. (spiritually christened). The OT never had it. The law was fleshly, not spiritual.

Romans:
For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit (again, capital S)

For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

Galatians:
For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spiritagainst the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

[FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Moses law was for the flesh:

Romans:
For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

The law couldn't save man:

Romans:
For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

The law (of flesh) saves no one:

Galatians:
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

In other words, drop the OT, it doesn't profit salvation.

Gnosis teaches truth:

Ignorance is the mother of all evil. Ignorance will result in death, because those who come from ignorance neither were, nor are, nor shall be. [...] will be perfect when all the truth is revealed. For truth is like ignorance: while it is hidden, it rests in itself, but when it is revealed and is recognized, it is praised, inasmuch as it is stronger than ignorance and error. It gives freedom. The Word said, "If you know the truth, the truth will make you free" (Jn 8:32). Ignorance is a slave. Knowledge is freedom. If we know the truth, we shall find the fruits of the truth within us. (spirit) If we are joined to it, it will bring our fulfillment.

The spirit males us alive. The flesh profits nothing. If it did, it would not rot in the ground. Let the dead bury their dead.[/FONT]

 

[Faithofchristian]

This is just a sample. There are more Canon and even more non Canon. But don't expect much in the OT.

It's the basis for "spiritual" knowledge (gnosis). Not the laws of flesh.

John:
14 Jesus answered and said unto them, Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true: for I know whence I came, and whither I go; but ye cannot tell whence I come, and whither I go.
15 Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man.

Matthew:
No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

John:
That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Born again is born of the Spirit (capital S), something that wasn't possible until Jesus brought it upon himself as the Christ. (spiritually christened). The OT never had it. The law was fleshly, not spiritual.

Romans:
For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit (again, capital S)

For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

Galatians:
For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spiritagainst the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

[FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Moses law was for the flesh:

Romans:
For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

The law couldn't save man:

Romans:
For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

The law (of flesh) saves no one:

Galatians:
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

In other words, drop the OT, it doesn't profit salvation.

Gnosis teaches truth:

Ignorance is the mother of all evil. Ignorance will result in death, because those who come from ignorance neither were, nor are, nor shall be. [...] will be perfect when all the truth is revealed. For truth is like ignorance: while it is hidden, it rests in itself, but when it is revealed and is recognized, it is praised, inasmuch as it is stronger than ignorance and error. It gives freedom. The Word said, "If you know the truth, the truth will make you free" (Jn 8:32). Ignorance is a slave. Knowledge is freedom. If we know the truth, we shall find the fruits of the truth within us. (spirit) If we are joined to it, it will bring our fulfillment.

The spirit males us alive. The flesh profits nothing. If it did, it would not rot in the ground. Let the dead bury their dead.[/FONT]

Seeing you went on about things, But never came to the knowledge of what Christ Jesus ment by his words are Spirit.

1 Corinthians 2:14 --"But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are Spiritually discerned"

Therefore the words Christ Jesus spoke, are spirit, and it takes Spiritual discernment to understand the words Christ Jesus spoke.

Let the dead bury their dead.
So who's the dead?

Not by the works for the law.
What law is that?

 

[Phantasman]

Seeing you went on about things, But never came to the knowledge of what Christ Jesus ment by his words are Spirit.

1 Corinthians 2:14 --"But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are Spiritually discerned"

Therefore the words Christ Jesus spoke, are spirit, and it takes Spiritual discernment to understand the words Christ Jesus spoke.

Let the dead bury their dead.
So who's the dead?

Not by the works for the law.
What law is that?

The knowledge is there for those who seek to "understand".

Luke (and Matthew):
And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.

What saved the thief next to Jesus? Water? Fire? No. He "understood".

"Become zealous about the Word. For the Word's first condition is faith; the second is love; the third is works. Now from these comes life. For the Word is like a grain of wheat. When someone sowed it, he believed in it; and when it sprouted, he loved it, because he looked forward to many grains in the place of one; and when he worked it, he was saved, because he prepared it for food. Again he left some grains to sow. Thus it is also possible for you all to receive the Kingdom of Heaven: unless you receive it through knowledge, you will not be able to find it.- Secret James

Only Christ brought knowledge, And it didn't enter the world until he brought it. He brought the "Word" (truth).

Seek out the chrism (of understanding) or remain ignorant as the Jews did.

Taking a bath doesn't make one a Christian. The "understanding" of the chrism of the Holy Spirit is what makes a Christian:


If one goes down into the water and comes up without having received anything, and says "I am a Christian," he has borrowed the name at interest. But if he receives the Holy Spirit, he has the name as a gift. He who has received a gift does not have to give it back, but of him who has borrowed it at interest, payment is demanded. This is the way it happens to one when he experiences a mystery.- Gospel of Philip

Mark:
And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:

The word "mystery" appears 22 times in the Bible. In the NT only. Never in the OT.

Gnosis is the "knowledge" of the mystery of the true God. It is the Word Jesus spoke, and the Holy Spirit continues to speak. It is life.

Keep at it.

 

[Faithofchristian]

The knowledge is there for those who seek to "understand".

Luke (and Matthew):
And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.

What saved the thief next to Jesus? Water? Fire? No. He "understood".

"Become zealous about the Word. For the Word's first condition is faith; the second is love; the third is works. Now from these comes life. For the Word is like a grain of wheat. When someone sowed it, he believed in it; and when it sprouted, he loved it, because he looked forward to many grains in the place of one; and when he worked it, he was saved, because he prepared it for food. Again he left some grains to sow. Thus it is also possible for you all to receive the Kingdom of Heaven: unless you receive it through knowledge, you will not be able to find it.- Secret James

Only Christ brought knowledge, And it didn't enter the world until he brought it. He brought the "Word" (truth).

Seek out the chrism (of understanding) or remain ignorant as the Jews did.

Taking a bath doesn't make one a Christian. The "understanding" of the chrism of the Holy Spirit is what makes a Christian:


If one goes down into the water and comes up without having received anything, and says "I am a Christian," he has borrowed the name at interest. But if he receives the Holy Spirit, he has the name as a gift. He who has received a gift does not have to give it back, but of him who has borrowed it at interest, payment is demanded. This is the way it happens to one when he experiences a mystery.- Gospel of Philip

Mark:
And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:

The word "mystery" appears 22 times in the Bible. In the NT only. Never in the OT.

Gnosis is the "knowledge" of the mystery of the true God. It is the Word Jesus spoke, and the Holy Spirit continues to speak. It is life.

Keep at it.

What actually saved the thief on the cross, Was his professing of Jesus as Lord.
Luke 23:41- 43

 

[Phantasman]

What actually saved the thief on the cross, Was his professing of Jesus as Lord.
Luke 23:41- 43

I don't see that at all. What the mouth says saves no one. Judas professed Jesus as lord.

I'll go with understanding and Jesus saw his heart. God knows before we even speak. Kind of a spiritual thing, if ya get my drift. (flesh profits nothing).

 

[Faithofchristian]

I don't see that at all. What the mouth says saves no one. Judas professed Jesus as lord.

I'll go with understanding and Jesus saw his heart. God knows before we even speak. Kind of a spiritual thing, if ya get my drift. (flesh profits nothing).

So explain Romans 10:10 -"For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation"

Therefore the thief on the cross was saved by his mouth of confession Jesus as Lord.

 

[Phantasman]

So explain Romans 10:10 -"For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation"

Therefore the thief on the cross was saved by his mouth of confession Jesus as Lord.

You're really into the flesh, aren't you? What chance do the "deaf and dumb" have with you?

 

[Faithofchristian]

You're really into the flesh, aren't you? What chance do the "deaf and dumb" have with you?

You have little understanding about Christ Jesus.
"And they bring unto him one that was deaf, and had an impediment in his speech: and they beseech him to put his hand upon him, And he took him aside from the multitude, and put his fingers into his ears, and he spit and touched his tongue; and looking up to heaven, he signed, and said unto him , Eph-pha-tha, that is Be opened, And straight way his ears were open, and the impediment of his tongue was loosed, and he spoke plain". Mark 7:32-35

What you can not hear by the deaf and dumb Christ Jesus can hear. When the deaf and dumb speak by their heart, Christ Jesus does hear them.

 

[Phantasman]

You have little understanding about Christ Jesus.
"And they bring unto him one that was deaf, and had an impediment in his speech: and they beseech him to put his hand upon him, And he took him aside from the multitude, and put his fingers into his ears, and he spit and touched his tongue; and looking up to heaven, he signed, and said unto him , Eph-pha-tha, that is Be opened, And straight way his ears were open, and the impediment of his tongue was loosed, and he spoke plain". Mark 7:32-35

What you can not hear by the deaf and dumb Christ Jesus can hear. When the deaf and dumb speak by their heart, Christ Jesus does hear them.

I'm glad you finally got what I was saying.

(from above)
"I'll go with understanding and Jesus saw his heart. God knows before we even speak. Kind of a spiritual thing, if ya get my drift. (flesh profits nothing)."

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Harikrish has presented scriptural verses that challenge the Christian teachings of original sin and how death came into the world. The scriptures give us a different reading of the account in Genesis that led to the banishment of Adam and Eve from the Garden of Eden and their fall from grace. God's own words incriminate Him.
First the scriptural evidence.

We know God created 2 special trees in the garden of Eden.
Genesis 2:9 The LORD God made all kinds of trees grow out of the ground--trees that were pleasing to the eye and good for food. In the middle of the garden were the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

God explains what each tree offered with a warning.
1. Tree of knowledge offered knowledge of good and evil.
Genesis 2:16 And the Lord God commanded the man, "You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die."
2. The tree of life offered immortality, anyone eating from it would live forever.
Genesis 3:22The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.

According to genesis 2:16 God told Adam not to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil for when he ate it he would die.

The talking serpent corrects Eve understanding about the poisonous tree of knowledge.
Genesis 3:Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, "Did God really say, "You must not eat from any tree in the garden"?"

2 The woman said to the serpent, "We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3 but God did say, "You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.""

4 "You will not certainly die," the serpent said to the woman. 5 "For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."

Now we have two opposing choices Eve is faced with (Eve's dilemma). Who spoke the truth God or the serpent?

1. Eat the fobidden fruit and you will die according to God to Adam.
2. Eat from it and their eyes will be opened and they will be like God knowing good and evil according to the serpent to,Eve.

Eve ate the forbidden fruit and gave some to Adam.
1. The first thing they noticed was their eyes were opened exactly as the serpent told Eve.
Genesis 3:7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they realized they were naked; so they sewed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves.

2. They did not die after eating the forbidden fruit. So God was lying.
Genesis 3:Then the man and his wife heard the sound of the Lord God as he was walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and they hid from the Lord God among the trees of the garden. 9 But the Lord God called to the man, "Where are you?"
10 He answered, "I heard you in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; so I hid."
11 And he said, "Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree that I commanded you not to eat from?"

3. God confirms in scriptures he was lying because he offers the same explanation as the serpent offered to Eve :" Eat from it and your eyes will be opened and you will be like God knowing good and evil."

Genesis 3:22 And the Lord God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."

God goes a step further and stops Adam and Eve from reaching out to take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."

So not only were Adam send Eve created as mortals. They were now denied access to the tree of life which would have allowed them to live forever. They certainly did not die as God had warned, in fact he said they would continue to live and work which totally contradicted his warning that they would die if they ate the firbidden fruit.

Genesis 3: 23 So the Lord God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken. 24 After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side[e] of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life.

So we know death did not come into the world because Adam and Eve ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Death come into the world when God killed the first animals to make garments of skin for Adam and Eve and because he denied access to Adam and Eve the tree of life which would have allowed them to live forever.

Die definition, to cease to live; undergo the complete and permanent cessation of all vital physiological functions; become dead.

Adam and Eve did not die (to cease to live; undergo the complete and permanent cessation of all vital physiological functions; become dead).after eating the forbidden fruit.

Adam and Eve continued to worship and thank the lord for their children. They even taught theur children to make offerings to a God. And God continued to communicate with Adam and Eve and their family.

Genesis 4:1 Adam[a] made love to his wife Eve, and she became pregnant and gave birth to Cain. She said, "With the help of the Lord I have brought forth[c] a man." 2 Later she gave birth to his brother Abel.

Now Abel kept flocks, and Cain worked the soil. 3 In the course of time Cain brought some of the fruits of the soil as an offering to the Lord. 4 And Abel also brought an offering"fat portions from some of the firstborn of his flock. The Lord looked with favor on Abel and his offering, 5 but on Cain and his offering he did not look with favor.

6 Then the Lord said to Cain, "Why are you angry? Why is your face downcast? 7 If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must rule over it."

So why did God punish the serpent when the serpent was proven right. It was God that lied.

Genesis 3:So the Lord God said to the serpent, "Because you have done this,
"Cursed are you above all livestock and all wild animals!
You will crawl on your belly and you will eat dust all the days of your life.
15 And I will put enmity between you and the woman,

But we know that curse never happened either because Satan is the ruler and God of the world.

2 Corinthians 4:4 Satan, who is the god of this world, has blinded the minds of those who don"t believe. They are unable to see the glorious light of the Good News. They don"t understand this message about the glory of Christ, who is the exact likeness of God.
Satan is also called the "prince of the power of the air" in Ephesians 2:2. He is the "ruler of this world" in John 12:31. These titles and many more signify Satan"s capabilities. To say, for example, that Satan is the "prince of the power of the air" is to signify that in some way he rules over the world and the people in it.

Christians are taught that it the because of the original sin committed by Adam and Eve that death came into the world. But there are no supporting scriptures that support their Christian teaching. What we discovered instead is God repeatedly lying .

There is further evidence in scriptures to show God is bumbling genocidal maniac a liar and voyeur and a rapist who changes his mind after committing the crime.

If there are any Christians out there who are sufficiently well versed in the Bible who can rebut these scriptural allegations. Please produce the scriptural verses that challenge these scriptural allegations so we may all learn the two sided nature of scriptures and how it is possible for God to speak from both sides of his mouth.

I guess it all hinges on what "day means.

 

[Faithofchristian]

I guess it all hinges on what "day means.

Most not all Christians believe that the original sin happen with Adam and Eve.

Most Christians are taught this, because of their Pastor's, Preachers and their Scholars can not see anything pass Adam and Eve.

Therefore they are taught that everything started with Adam and Eve, And by these teachings of man's is how alot of Christians come by, the original sin happen with Adam and Eve, Unto which the scriptures do not support these teachings of man's.

There was a time way before Adam and Eve came into existence. As to where the original sin happen And then Adam and Eve fell victim to this orginal sin.This is how sin entered the world.
But the question is, Who was the first to commit the original sin, That got Adam and Eve to commit sin also. And thru Adam and Eve is how sin entered this world.

Someone convinced, lied to Eve, to get her to take of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. So it was Eve that was first lied to.
How many times do you suppose Adam walk by that tree and did not take of the tree ?, Only until Eve came, then Eve took of the tree and then Eve got Adam to take of the tree.

So we come back to the Question, who committed the original sin ? That got Eve and Adam to fall into the snare of this original sin ?

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Most not all Christians believe that the original sin happen with Adam and Eve.

Most Christians are taught this, because of their Pastor's, Preachers and their Scholars can not see anything pass Adam and Eve.

Therefore they are taught that everything started with Adam and Eve, And by these teachings of man's is how alot of Christians come by, the original sin happen with Adam and Eve, Unto which the scriptures do not support these teachings of man's.

There was a time way before Adam and Eve came into existence. As to where the original sin happen And then Adam and Eve fell victim to this orginal sin.This is how sin entered the world.
But the question is, Who was the first to commit the original sin, That got Adam and Eve to commit sin also. And thru Adam and Eve is how sin entered this world.

Someone convinced, lied to Eve, to get her to take of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. So it was Eve that was first lied to.
How many times do you suppose Adam walk by that tree and did not take of the tree ?, Only until Eve came, then Eve took of the tree and then Eve got Adam to take of the tree.

So we come back to the Question, who committed the original sin ? That got Eve and Adam to fall into the snare of this original sin ?

Most not all Christians believe that the original sin happen with Adam and Eve.

Most Christians are taught this, because of their Pastor's, Preachers and their Scholars can not see anything pass Adam and Eve.

Therefore they are taught that everything started with Adam and Eve, And by these teachings of man's is how alot of Christians come by, the original sin happen with Adam and Eve, Unto which the scriptures do not support these teachings of man's.

There was a time way before Adam and Eve came into existence. As to where the original sin happen And then Adam and Eve fell victim to this orginal sin.This is how sin entered the world.
But the question is, Who was the first to commit the original sin, That got Adam and Eve to commit sin also. And thru Adam and Eve is how sin entered this world.

Someone convinced, lied to Eve, to get her to take of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. So it was Eve that was first lied to.
How many times do you suppose Adam walk by that tree and did not take of the tree ?, Only until Eve came, then Eve took of the tree and then Eve got Adam to take of the tree.

So we come back to the Question, who committed the original sin ? That got Eve and Adam to fall into the snare of this original sin ?

Wowser did I ever miss where that had any thing to do with my post, but what hay it's only Wednesday.

I might amend my post now the I've had coffee. It hinges on the meaning of "in."

 

[Phantasman]

I guess it all hinges on what "day means.

Bingo. As well as what the word "tree" means. Or "knowledge". Or "life".

Jesus said it is the "spirit" that makes us alive. The "knowledge" given by "tree of life" gave us our "spirit" from the true God, not the liar and murderer God. Man was "flesh and soul" like the animals.

1 Corinth:
And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

To follow the god of the soul is why the Jews could not see Jesus, who spoke spirit.

John:
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

John 8:
42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Secret John:
"And I shall teach you (pl.) what is the mystery of their life, which is the plan which they made together, which is the likeness of their spirit. The root of this (tree) is bitter and its branches are death, its shadow is hate and deception is in its leaves, and its blossom is the ointment of evil, and its fruit is death and desire is its seed, and it sprouts in darkness. The dwelling place of those who taste from it is Hades, and the darkness is their place of rest.

"But what they call the tree of knowledge of good and evil, which is the Epinoia of the light, they stayed in front of it in order that he (Adam) might not look up to his fullness and recognize the nakedness of his shamefulness. But it was I who brought about that they ate."

Jesus said the truth is right before us, but we see through flesh instead of spirit.

Until Jesus came,the Jews died and stayed in Hades, until Jesus was glorified, and saved them after the crucifixion.

The Gospel message is to NOT follow after the mistake the Jews made.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Bingo. As well as what the word "tree" means. Or "knowledge". Or "life".

Jesus said it is the "spirit" that makes us alive. The "knowledge" given by "tree of life" gave us our "spirit" from the true God, not the liar and murderer God. Man was "flesh and soul" like the animals.

1 Corinth:
And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

To follow the god of the soul is why the Jews could not see Jesus, who spoke spirit.

John:
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

John 8:
42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Secret John:
"And I shall teach you (pl.) what is the mystery of their life, which is the plan which they made together, which is the likeness of their spirit. The root of this (tree) is bitter and its branches are death, its shadow is hate and deception is in its leaves, and its blossom is the ointment of evil, and its fruit is death and desire is its seed, and it sprouts in darkness. The dwelling place of those who taste from it is Hades, and the darkness is their place of rest.

"But what they call the tree of knowledge of good and evil, which is the Epinoia of the light, they stayed in front of it in order that he (Adam) might not look up to his fullness and recognize the nakedness of his shamefulness. But it was I who brought about that they ate."

Jesus said the truth is right before us, but we see through flesh instead of spirit.

Until Jesus came,the Jews died and stayed in Hades, until Jesus was glorified, and saved them after the crucifixion.

The Gospel message is to NOT follow after the mistake the Jews made.

Wow, such a long letter. Look, this is real simple. The flesh got corrupted at the garden and as such our bodies are not good enough for heaven and the eternal presence of God. Thereforefore the need to get a new one, hence, born again. Your mind is a different matter, hoo boy.

 

[Phantasman]

Wow, such a long letter. Look, this is real simple. The flesh got corrupted at the garden and as such our bodies are not good enough for heaven and the eternal presence of God. Thereforefore the need to get a new one, hence, born again. Your mind is a different matter, hoo boy.

The flesh was never perfeect. It was imperfect from the beginning. If it had to eat at all shows it would have died anyways. The flesh means nothing anyway, and never did.

John 8:
The flesh profits nothing.- Jesus

Born again is to be born of Spirit rather than carnal flesh that all man is born into.

John 8:
It is the spirit that makes you alive.

Mind is between the soul and spirit. It's what receives vision and knowledge. (Gospel of Mary).

 

[sandy whitelinger]

The flesh was never perfect...

Ah, the crux of the matter. Clearly flesh was perfect enough for God to share Himself, His garden and His Tree of life with. And after gaining knowledge of good and evil it was no longer good enough for Eden nor for the Tree of Life.