• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

A choice between yourself and God.

Bird123

Well-Known Member
Why do you get to talk about it and not God? Why should God intimidate my choices? He can say everything you are saying if that's the correct philosophy.
You do not Understand. I Discovered the answers before my contact with God. Wisdom is acquired along the journey to Discover. God will not keep you from the Wisdom you will acquire. Example: I know revenge and payback will not bring the best results. You have not acquired the wisdom to know this. Everyone can tell you this but until you Discover this for yourself, how could you ever really know?

There is another thing to consider. Interacting with God's great intelligence is not an easy thing. One is peddling just to keep up. Without a certain amount of Understanding, most would just be confused by the experience. People see what they way to see. I care only about what Is. With God's level of multiple levels and multiple views wandering from what actually is while trying to keep up will lead to confusion and a visit that is useless energy spent.

Discover enough and God will visit when you are ready.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!
 

Bird123

Well-Known Member
Created by mankind sure but why can't God write a book? You are talking about a metaphorical book, why can't both exist?
You want God just to give you all the answers. God wants you to acquire Wisdom along with the answers. Example: Say your car breaks down. I tell you it's a spark plug wire. You can get your car running but you will never really know how a car really works. How much more will you learn by Discovering for yourself what is wrong with your car? Since God does what is best for you, you are going to have to figure out just what is wrong with your car and what it takes to fix it.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!
 

Bird123

Well-Known Member
There is only one God, we don't get to make him up per our desires. This is where your approach and mine differ, I seek proof and found it. You seek to impose your views upon God and speak for God rather then search for his proofs on earth.
If God is who you really seek, why do you look for God though others rather than through God's actual handi-works? I'm not talking about those books mankind claims is from God. Look around you to what are the actions of God. They stare you in the face!!

That's what I see. It's very clear!!
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Interacting with God's great intelligence is not an easy thing. One is peddling just to keep up. Without a certain amount of Understanding, most would just be confused by the experience. People see what they way to see. I care only about what Is. With God's level of multiple levels and multiple views wandering from what actually is while trying to keep up will lead to confusion and a visit that is useless energy spent.
To an extent I agree with you. Which is why layering makes sense as is in the case of Islam.

It's also not that everything is spoon fed in Islam nor are we left without guidance. It's soft middle ground where we can grow in it and get out of what we put.
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
You want God just to give you all the answers. God wants you to acquire Wisdom along with the answers. Example: Say your car breaks down. I tell you it's a spark plug wire. You can get your car running but you will never really know how a car really works. How much more will you learn by Discovering for yourself what is wrong with your car? Since God does what is best for you, you are going to have to figure out just what is wrong with your car and what it takes to fix it.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!
I see what you are saying. But Quran and Islam is a middle ground where you have to experience and act to understand, but it's not that God just leaves us to ourselves either.
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
If God is who you really seek, why do you look for God though others rather than through God's actual handi-works? I'm not talking about those books mankind claims is from God. Look around you to what are the actions of God. They stare you in the face!!

That's what I see. It's very clear!!
The Quran makes you reflect a lot over God's handi-works. For example, see Surah Nahl (16th chapter).
 

Marwan

*banned*
Surely, an atheist can only be punished if he actually were given a choice to believe in God or not, and used his free will to not believe. Does such a choice exist? Has God given atheists such a choice? Idk. Maybe. Maybe not.
 

Bird123

Well-Known Member
To an extent I agree with you. Which is why layering makes sense as is in the case of Islam.

It's also not that everything is spoon fed in Islam nor are we left without guidance. It's soft middle ground where we can grow in it and get out of what we put.
Yes, but what are they teaching? How many of the petty things mankind holds so dear are they teaching people to value? How many have you learned to value? Clearly, this is not God.

If you look around you, nothing God really does will teach these things. It is all mankind.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!
 

Bird123

Well-Known Member
I see what you are saying. But Quran and Islam is a middle ground where you have to experience and act to understand, but it's not that God just leaves us to ourselves either.
No one is ever alone. God and people do not need books to guide them. There is no middle man. On the other hand, mankind is a controlling lot. Mankind values those petty things.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!
 

Bird123

Well-Known Member
The Quran makes you reflect a lot over God's handi-works. For example, see Surah Nahl (16th chapter).
First they give you a sales pitch for Allah, then threats if one does not conform exactly. Does God really sell Himself? Does God really have to have Believers to the point they are punished and hated with Wrath and chastisement? Is God so weak that He must require Fear of people? Would God really set up a WE against They. Will everyone really join together in Chastisement of others?? Does this really sound like a High Level of Intelligence? How many of the petty things mankind holds so dear is being taught here?

What I have read is entirely a creation of Mankind who really does not Understand God at all
That's what I see. It's very clear!!
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
First they give you a sales pitch for Allah, then threats if one does not conform exactly. Does God really sell Himself? Does God really have to have Believers to the point they are punished and hated with Wrath and chastisement? Is God so weak that He must require Fear of people? Would God really set up a WE against They. Will everyone really join together in Chastisement of others?? Does this really sound like a High Level of Intelligence? How many of the petty things mankind holds so dear is being taught here?

What I have read is entirely a creation of Mankind who really does not Understand God at all
That's what I see. It's very clear!!


وَلَئِنْ أَذَقْنَاهُ رَحْمَةً مِنَّا مِنْ بَعْدِ ضَرَّاءَ مَسَّتْهُ لَيَقُولَنَّ هَٰذَا لِي وَمَا أَظُنُّ السَّاعَةَ قَائِمَةً وَلَئِنْ رُجِعْتُ إِلَىٰ رَبِّي إِنَّ لِي عِنْدَهُ لَلْحُسْنَىٰ ۚ فَلَنُنَبِّئَنَّ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا بِمَا عَمِلُوا وَلَنُذِيقَنَّهُمْ مِنْ عَذَابٍ غَلِيظٍ | If, after distress has befallen him, We let him have a taste of Our mercy, he says, ‘This is my due! I do not think the Hour will ever come, and in case I am returned to my Lord, I will indeed have the beauty/goodness with Him.’ So We will surely inform the faithless about what they have done, and will surely make them taste a harsh punishment. | Fussilat : 50

وَمَا أَظُنُّ السَّاعَةَ قَائِمَةً وَلَئِنْ رُدِدْتُ إِلَىٰ رَبِّي لَأَجِدَنَّ خَيْرًا مِنْهَا مُنْقَلَبًا | and I do not think that the Hour will ever set in. And even if I am returned to my Lord I will surely find a resort better than this.’ | Al-Kahf : 36

وَنُنَزِّلُ مِنَ الْقُرْآنِ مَا هُوَ شِفَاءٌ وَرَحْمَةٌ لِلْمُؤْمِنِينَ ۙ وَلَا يَزِيدُ الظَّالِمِينَ إِلَّا خَسَارًا | We send down in the Quran that which is a cure and mercy for the faithful; and it increases the wrongdoers/oppressors/unjust only in loss. | Al-Israa : 82

وَإِذْ قُلْنَا لَكَ إِنَّ رَبَّكَ أَحَاطَ بِالنَّاسِ ۚ وَمَا جَعَلْنَا الرُّؤْيَا الَّتِي أَرَيْنَاكَ إِلَّا فِتْنَةً لِلنَّاسِ وَالشَّجَرَةَ الْمَلْعُونَةَ فِي الْقُرْآنِ ۚ وَنُخَوِّفُهُمْ فَمَا يَزِيدُهُمْ إِلَّا طُغْيَانًا كَبِيرًا | When We said to you, ‘Indeed your Lord encircles the people,’ We did not appoint the vision that We showed you except as a tribulation for the people and the tree cursed in the Quran. We warn them, but it only increases them in their outrageous rebellion. | Al-Israa : 60

The purpose is to give mental clarity to the who listens with the heart and is seeking truth with a humble spirit. Atheists and many others take a bet, that if God exists, he surely will give them goodness. No need to worry.

يَا أَيُّهَا النَّاسُ إِنَّ وَعْدَ اللَّهِ حَقٌّ ۖ فَلَا تَغُرَّنَّكُمُ الْحَيَاةُ الدُّنْيَا ۖ وَلَا يَغُرَّنَّكُمْ بِاللَّهِ الْغَرُورُ | O mankind! Allah’s promise is indeed true. So do not let the life of the world deceive you, nor let the deceive you concerning Allah the deceptions. | Faatir : 5

The deceptions per some hadiths, are that, humans convince themselves that God will have mercy and forgive them, and so it makes them not fearful of their actions.
 

Bird123

Well-Known Member
وَلَئِنْ أَذَقْنَاهُ رَحْمَةً مِنَّا مِنْ بَعْدِ ضَرَّاءَ مَسَّتْهُ لَيَقُولَنَّ هَٰذَا لِي وَمَا أَظُنُّ السَّاعَةَ قَائِمَةً وَلَئِنْ رُجِعْتُ إِلَىٰ رَبِّي إِنَّ لِي عِنْدَهُ لَلْحُسْنَىٰ ۚ فَلَنُنَبِّئَنَّ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا بِمَا عَمِلُوا وَلَنُذِيقَنَّهُمْ مِنْ عَذَابٍ غَلِيظٍ | If, after distress has befallen him, We let him have a taste of Our mercy, he says, ‘This is my due! I do not think the Hour will ever come, and in case I am returned to my Lord, I will indeed have the beauty/goodness with Him.’ So We will surely inform the faithless about what they have done, and will surely make them taste a harsh punishment. | Fussilat : 50

وَمَا أَظُنُّ السَّاعَةَ قَائِمَةً وَلَئِنْ رُدِدْتُ إِلَىٰ رَبِّي لَأَجِدَنَّ خَيْرًا مِنْهَا مُنْقَلَبًا | and I do not think that the Hour will ever set in. And even if I am returned to my Lord I will surely find a resort better than this.’ | Al-Kahf : 36

وَنُنَزِّلُ مِنَ الْقُرْآنِ مَا هُوَ شِفَاءٌ وَرَحْمَةٌ لِلْمُؤْمِنِينَ ۙ وَلَا يَزِيدُ الظَّالِمِينَ إِلَّا خَسَارًا | We send down in the Quran that which is a cure and mercy for the faithful; and it increases the wrongdoers/oppressors/unjust only in loss. | Al-Israa : 82

وَإِذْ قُلْنَا لَكَ إِنَّ رَبَّكَ أَحَاطَ بِالنَّاسِ ۚ وَمَا جَعَلْنَا الرُّؤْيَا الَّتِي أَرَيْنَاكَ إِلَّا فِتْنَةً لِلنَّاسِ وَالشَّجَرَةَ الْمَلْعُونَةَ فِي الْقُرْآنِ ۚ وَنُخَوِّفُهُمْ فَمَا يَزِيدُهُمْ إِلَّا طُغْيَانًا كَبِيرًا | When We said to you, ‘Indeed your Lord encircles the people,’ We did not appoint the vision that We showed you except as a tribulation for the people and the tree cursed in the Quran. We warn them, but it only increases them in their outrageous rebellion. | Al-Israa : 60

The purpose is to give mental clarity to the who listens with the heart and is seeking truth with a humble spirit. Atheists and many others take a bet, that if God exists, he surely will give them goodness. No need to worry.

يَا أَيُّهَا النَّاسُ إِنَّ وَعْدَ اللَّهِ حَقٌّ ۖ فَلَا تَغُرَّنَّكُمُ الْحَيَاةُ الدُّنْيَا ۖ وَلَا يَغُرَّنَّكُمْ بِاللَّهِ الْغَرُورُ | O mankind! Allah’s promise is indeed true. So do not let the life of the world deceive you, nor let the deceive you concerning Allah the deceptions. | Faatir : 5

The deceptions per some hadiths, are that, humans convince themselves that God will have mercy and forgive them, and so it makes them not fearful of their actions.
It has never ever been about believing, following, accepting, obedience, judgment, punishment, deceptions, forgiveness, humility, wrongdoers, righteous, or good verses evil. Life is the education of God's children. This physical world does not exist to be ruled or controlled as mankind wishes. This world does not exist for God. This world exists for Us!! The time-based causal nature of this world is Perfect for learning!!

Our choices and actions show God and the world what we know and what we need to learn. There is no need to hate and condemn others. Because others are learning lessons one has already learn does not mean they should be hated. God has and always will have Unconditional Love for all His children regardless of their actions and choices. Why hate when given enough lessons every child will Discover for themselves what the best choices really are. Intelligence will make the best choices.

If God Loves all Unconditionally, why must one Hate?? The best choice is work at solving the problem, teaching the lesson, and guiding others to a Higher Level.

WE are Living our lessons. Experience is the best teacher. One can tell others and point others in the right direction, however many must experience for themselves what their actions and choices really mean. Is this really an excuse to hate, hurt and condemn others? Is this really an excuse to use pain against others in an attempt to alter the actions and choices of others? Is this the time to threaten, manipulate or coerce the choices of others?

A really Wise person looks at their own actions and choices. Is this who I really want to be? Is this really how I want to define myself? How are my actions and choices changing others? What are you Teaching others through your actions and choices? Ponder all sides for one can teach others things one does not realize one is teaching.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!
 
Top