A cold case. When murders or accidents are labeled as suicide

[Estro Felino]

Italy Viviana Parisi death: Child's remains found in mystery search


I just wanted to analyze together with other people, a case that has been shocking me for a year.
It happened in Sicily, August 3rd 2020.
As you can see in the picture, a beautiful woman and her child were the victims of what I define a “crime committed by a bunch of chance delinquents”.

This fact mystifies me as a lawyer, because the solution is so evident and still people label this case as a suicide.

A woman, Viviana and her son Joele (in the picture) had an accident in the highway A20, where she was driving at not less than 80 km/h, so probably even at 90 km/h, or 100 km/h.
They disappeared all of a sudden. When the police arrived, the workers who were driving a truck with which Viviana's car blast, said she had disappeared. That she and her child had gone into the wood (maquis shrubland with oaks, mainly). But no rescuer found them.

Five days later, August the 8th, a bloodhound (hired for the searches) found the body of Viviana in an advanced stage of decomposition. Just 1 km away from the place of the accident...below a steel electricity pylon.
These is the map.
4 Tunnel inside of which the accident took place
5 Viviana's body
7 Joele's body

Instead of thinking of the most obvious (according to the Ockham razor) solution, that is that Viviana and her son might have died in the accident, they immediately claimed (even before the autopsy) that she had committed suicide by climbing and diving from the pylon (no comment).
But the public and the media didn't swallow this pitiful conjecture...so they started questioning whether Viviana was still alive after the accident. The two workers had no witnesses. All of a sudden they claimed there were a family who were on a trip in Sicily and that they can testify that Viviana and Joele were both alive and well after the accident (it is very improbable to be perfectly well after undergoing a car accident in the highway).

Nobody has ever seen these people in Sicily. These people apparently testified at a police station in Lombardy. Nobody saw them. Nobody knows their names.

Joele's body will be found by a volunteer on August the 19th. It was a horrible scene. Boars and foxes had devoured the corpse and just the bones were found. With the clothes, of course.

Some investigators affirms that Viviana killed her son (NO COMMENT) and then she committed suicide, by climbing and diving from the pylon.


What do you guys think?

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

One of the problems is that it's really hard to rule out suicide by law even in cases where it doesn't make sense. So some people these days will make it clear to those around them, if they feel they're in danger, that they're not suicidal. I'll give an example...

There are some conspiracies regarding the Clintons, true or fake, in which a bunch of suicides turned up. So when Tulsi Gabbard wanted to sue Hilary Clinton, she got on camera to tell people she wasn't feeling suicidal.

 

[Estro Felino]

One of the problems is that it's really hard to rule out suicide by law even in cases where it doesn't make sense. So some people these days will make it clear to those around them, if they feel they're in danger, that they're not suicidal. I'll give an example...

There are some conspiracies regarding the Clintons, true or fake, in which a bunch of suicides turned up. So when Tulsi Gabbard wanted to sue Hilary Clinton, she got on camera to tell people she wasn't feeling suicidal.

I understand...but I have been studying this case for a year. It is impossible that Viviana and Joele were not injured in the accident.
The procedural anomalies are countless.
Witnesses whose existence is put into doubt.
I am utterly mystified.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

I understand...but I have been studying this case for a year. It is impossible that Viviana and Joele were not injured in the accident.
The procedural anomalies are countless.
Witnesses whose existence is put into doubt.
I am utterly mystified.

I see. Yeah it does sound suspicious.

However, the evidence has to be there. And police have to want to find that evidence. Without the proper evidence, the jury will just not be able to decide, or declare anyone "not guilty".

 

[Estro Felino]

And one more thing, @KAT-KAT .
There are lawyers who would defend anyone, even Jack the ripper just for money.
It is utterly horrible, especially when you lose trust in those who are paid with taxpayers' money to make justice.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

New Abd one more thing, @KAT-KAT .
There are lawyers who would defend anyone, eveb Jack the ripper just for money.

I'm aware.

 

[Estro Felino]

I see. Yeah it does sound suspicious.

However, the evidence has to be there. And police have to want to find that evidence. Without the proper evidence, the jury will just not be able to decide, or declare anyone "not guilty".

The evidence is there.
Here it is much more complicated than in the United States, there is a judge for investigations called GIP who is the supervisor of the district attorney's activity.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

The evidence is there.

Maybe. I don't know. But without significantly more evidence than your story and the obvious suspicion, it'd never hold up in a US court of law.

 

[Estro Felino]

I'm aware.

Besides...do you really believe that a person drives 100 km, then she has an accident, then she runs away from the accident, then she kills her own son, then she commits suicide by diving from a pylon?

It is not only absurd...but also illogical.

Especially when everyone considers the version of the truck drivers not credible.

 

[Estro Felino]

Maybe. I don't know. But without significantly more evidence than your story and the obvious suspicion, it'd never hold up in a US court of law.

Clues. Clues are sufficient in an Italian court when these clues are 1) severe 2) precise and univocal 3) matching with each other.

 

[an anarchist]

Some investigators affirms that Viviana killed her son (NO COMMENT) and then she committed suicide, by climbing and diving from the pylon.

Doing a little research, I found statements by the husband saying that his wife would never do such a thing. In suspicious situations like this, I think statements like that are important to consider.

 

[Estro Felino]

Doing a little research, I found statements by the husband saying that his wife would never do such a thing. In suspicious situations like this, I think statements like that are important to consider.

Did you find sources in English? That's great.

 

[Heyo]

View attachment 53158


View attachment 53159




I just wanted to analyze together with other people, a case that has been shocking me for a year.
It happened in Sicily, August 3rd 2020.
As you can see in the picture, a beautiful woman and her child were the victims of what I define a “crime committed by a bunch of chance delinquents”.

This fact mystifies me as a lawyer, because the solution is so evident and still we have a procurator and his henchmen who pretend that nothing happened, and that are not likely to solve a easy case.

A woman, Viviana and her son Joele (in the picture) had an accident in the highway A20, where she was driving at not less than 80 km/h, so probably even at 90 km/h, or 100 km/h.
They disappeared all of a sudden. When the police arrived, the workers who were driving a truck with which Viviana's car blast, said she had disappeared. That she and her child had gone into the wood (maquis shrubland with oaks, mainly). But no rescuer found them.

Five days later, August the 8th, a bloodhound (hired for the searches) found the body of Viviana in an advanced stage of decomposition. Just 1 km away from the place of the accident...below a steel electricity pylon.
These is the map.
4 Tunnel inside of which the accident took place
5 Viviana's body
7 Joele's body

View attachment 53160

Instead of thinking of the most obvious (according to the Ockham razor) solution, that is that Viviana and her son might have died in the accident, they immediately claimed (even before the autopsy) that she had committed suicide by climbing and falling from the pylon (no comment).
But the public and the media didn't swallow this pitiful conjecture...so they started questioning whether Viviana was still alive after the accident. The two workers had no witnesses. All of a sudden they claimed there were a family who were on a trip in Sicily and that they can testify that Viviana and Joele were both alive and well after the accident (it is very improbable to be perfectly well after undergoing a car accident in the highway).

Nobody has ever seen these people in Sicily. These people apparently testified at a police station in Lombardy. Nobody saw them. Nobody knows their names.

So many people heard the rumor that these witnesses were made up just to make people believe that Viviana and Joele were alive after the accident, so nobody would have had suspicions on the two truck drivers.
Joele's body will be found by a volunteer on August the 19th. It was a horrible scene. Boars and foxes had devoured the corpse and just the bones were found. With the clothes, of course.

Some investigators affirms that Viviana killed her son (NO COMMENT) and then she committed suicide, by climbing and diving from the pylon.

I am convinced the workers' version is not credible. They do not sound credible and their story does not match with the chronology order of the facts.
What do you guys think?

I don't understand the series of events. What kind of accident was that? (From the picture it might have been an exploded tire?) Did forensics examine the car and the truck?

 

[Estro Felino]

I don't understand the series of events. What kind of accident was that? (From the picture it might have been an exploded tire?) Did forensics examine the car and the truck?

I just want to ask you this.
European highway (Autobahn). Direction Messina-Palermo. A20
Viviana's car tries to surpass this white truck but a collision takes place and the car is hit in several spots. With a 90 km/h speed.
Actually I have been studied chronology and times for months...the speed could also have been 100 km/h.
Can a 4 year old boy with no fasten belt survive?

I guess not.
Some articles tried to say that the skull of the boy had blood and a fracture.
Then they tried to cover this up.

 

[Heyo]

I just want to ask you this.
European highway (Autobahn). Direction Messina-Palermo.
Viviana's car tries to surpass this white truck but a collision takes place and the car is hit in several spots. With a 90 km/h speed.
Actually I have been studied chronology and times for months...the speed could also have bewn 100 km/h.
Can a 4 year old boy with no fasten belt survive?

I guess not.
Some articles tried to say that the skull of the boy had blood and a fracture.
Then they tried to cover this up.

In a collision between two moving vehicles, the total speed isn't relevant, only the relative speed between the vehicles. When she passed the truck going 80 km/h at 100 km/h the speed difference is only 20 km/h.
But why did the collision even happen?

 

[Estro Felino]

But why did the collision even happen?

But the accident is irrelevant to me because what matters is that the witnesses from Lombardy are not credible because their testimony does not match with the first couple of witnesses.

1st couple of witnesses: calls 118 (911) says that an accident has taken place inside of a highway tunnel and that they are outside of the tunnel.
They say they have seen nobody coming out of the tunnel. So I presume Viviana and Joele are still in the tunnel (well or injured?).

But apparently the two truck drivers say that Viviana went into the Wood on the top of the tunnel. But the two witnesses saw nobody coming out of the tunnel.
And you know...a tunnel has niches...



2nd witnesses from Lombardy: they came afterwards and said they saw Viviana going into the wood. Impossible. The first witnesses were still there and saw nobody.

Conclusion. The 2nd witnesses are not credible and someone has put into doubt their existence.

 

[Estro Felino]

@Heyo
Viviana's husband has hired a team of criminologists and jurists. They all affirm Vivians's body fell into a 5 meters deep pit.
Then they decided to stage the suicide by putting her body at a pylon's feet.

 

[Heyo]

But the accident is irrelevant to me because what matters is that the witnesses from Lombardy are not credible because their testimony does not match with the first couple of witnesses.

1st couple of witnesses: calls 118 (911) says that an accident has taken place inside of a highway tunnel and that they are outside of the tunnel.
They say they have seen nobody coming out of the tunnel. So I presume Viviana and Joele are still in the tunnel (well or injured?).
View attachment 53164 View attachment 53165


But apparently the two truck drivers say that Viviana went into the Wood on the top of the tunnel. But the two witnesses saw nobody coming out of the tunnel.
And you know...a tunnel has niches...



2nd witnesses from Lombardy: they came afterwards and said they saw Viviana going into the wood. Impossible. The first witnesses were still there and saw nobody.

Conclusion. The 2nd witnesses are not credible and someone has put into doubt their existence.

I still don't get the sequence of events. The "1st couple of witnesses" are not the truck drivers? They saw the collision from outside the tunnel? Could the tell who caused the collision? The "truck divers" were the ones who were in the collision?

 

[Estro Felino]

I still don't get the sequence of events. The "1st couple of witnesses" are not the truck drivers? They saw the collision from outside the tunnel? Could the tell who caused the collision? The "truck divers" were the ones who were in the collision?

No. They are the drivers of the car behind the accident. They didn't see the accident because they were not even inside the tunnel. But a km away from them probably.
Yes. The truck drivers didnt even called 911. Other people did.

 

[Heyo]

No. They are the drivers of the car behind the accident. They didn't see the accident because they were not even inside the tunnel. But a km away from them probably.
Yes. The truck drivers didnt even called 911. Other people did.

I was trying to help but you are not a helpful reporter. I can't understand what happended and getting it out of you would take hours (I don't want to invest). Sorry, but I'm out.