A Communist says hi.

[Laika]

Much like not all "capitalists", nor not all that endorse "democracy", are alike (there's variations of each), there's not a single form of "communism", nor is there typically blind acceptance of all facets of "Marxism", much like there's really no blind acceptance of Adam Smith's capitalism because the latter also failed.

Very True. Marxism has it's fundamentals which define it, but otherwise it can evolve into almost anything. Like all ideologies it mutates and changes according to the conditions. The problem is how "communism" so far has demanded ideological conformity and submission to the state as a basis for social organization which cripples the ability of individual's both to be free and to accept diversity as a political strength and as necessary for creative social development. So it kind of 'leaps' into existence because things get so bad under 'capitalism' (like after World War I when the whole of Europe went up in flames) but then it goes 'totalitarian' and suffocates any chance to develop into a free society with a future. We nearly had the whole world, dam it!

Oh, and on the subject of China, you should look up "Apec Blue". Communism might well be the future, but only if we can produce air quality which isn't lethal. It's just another way we're building a better future by making the present uninhabitable.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Commies will ad hoc reject any definition of communism which isn't flattering. When pinned down, there are no real world examples of it...only hypothetical constructs predicated upon a different human nature. It's the "no true communism" fallacy.

There is a very clear distinction that is as different as night and day between the philosophies of Marx and Engels and what people have labeled "communism." For starters, I bet you didn't know that Marx and Engels called for a peaceful transition from Capitalism to Communism. Though Marx was realistic about people not willingly giving up power, to him the transition would ideally be peaceful. It's not ad hoc, but good scholarly work to be able to point out where the so-called "communist" regimes have had hardly anything more than the name in common with those states run by oligarchs (something Marx and Engels were opposed to) and the genuine philosophies of Marxism. Also Marx wanted to do away with national identity, not strengthen in it and put the state at the center of everything. Marx and Engels, and even their associates such as Max Stirner wrote at length about the corruption, oppression, and violence of the state. Really, it's not different than trying to say ISIS is an accurate representation of Islam while ignoring what Muslim scholars have written about Islam and how the Ummah as a whole feels about ISIS. A wolf in sheep's clothing is not a sheep, but still remains a wolf.

 

[Revoltingest]

Collectively our history is far from... "flattering"... to put it mildly and there is a lot of 'denial' about what happened because it went so wrong. There are real world examples of 'communism' of sorts, but those derived from Marxism, especially it's Leninist variant, were (and remain) very difficult places to live. The Anarchists had a pretty good go in Ukraine and in Catalonia, Spain to cite modern examples. Russia in the 1920's was a really crazy time to be alive, as well as very hard because of the destruction of the first world war and the Russian civil war. There was a huge amount of utopian experiments before Stalin took over and it makes a remarkable episode in human history, if ultimately very tragic given what followed. A lot of religious systems have communistic aspects and Marx would argue that hunter-gatherer societies were a form of "primitive communism". But we definitely over-estimated how quickly society and "human nature" could change, so trying to understand the utopian impulse puts us in the same place as the religious wanting to build "paradise on earth". Maybe next time....

I invite communists to create their own society with this economic structure within Americastan. The whole country needn't go communist in order for my comrades to live their dream. They could buy land & other resources, and all share in what I'd call "ownership".

 

[Laika]

I invite communists to create their own society with this economic structure within Americastan. The whole country needn't go communist in order for my comrades to live their dream. They could buy land & other resources, and all share in what I'd call "ownership".

Robert Owen (a Pre-Marxian Communist) actually did that in New Harmony, Indiana. It failed 'of course'. There's also a brief Wikipedia article on The Co-operative Movement in the US. Many early socialists were hopeful the co-operative movement could simply 'buy out' capitalism and make it more humane because when people were treated better, they worked harder and were more productive. Both ideas are compatible with Capitalism and Liberalism to a greater or lesser extent. So we've been at this for a long time.

 

[YmirGF]

So we've been at this for a long time.

And have so tragically little to show for it.

 

[Laika]

And have so tragically little to show for it.

Yeah, I know. It sucks really. But that's the problem with believing people can better themselves. it's always a step into the unknown because if you want people to be free, it's not often they're going to do what you want. Sometimes they'll just do the complete opposite to screw with you as they get a kick out of knowing they can say 'no' for a change. Equally, who is to say I or you or anyone else knows what is better? Freedom is risk and a process of discovery and finding out who we really are. we'll be wrong a lot of the time, but part of being free is making mistakes and learning from them.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Shalom.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

And have so tragically little to show for it.

Actually, we have some highly influential and very in-depth philosophers who, building from Marx, have provided very insightful views into how society functions, the structure of power, and how we are ingrained and indoctrinated by social, political, and economic beliefs and institutions. Because of massive efforts to demonize Marx, most people are oblivious about his social philosophies and how they have been developed over the years, and have no idea his philosophy was more than just critiques of Capitalism and the economic approach of Communism. A very significant part of Marxist philosophy, which revolves around ideology, can be said to be similar to John Nada's glasses in the movie They Live. And it doesn't matter if you're a Capitalist, Communist, Socialist, or whatever, these philosophies of ideology equally apply to all human societies.

 

[YmirGF]

Actually, we have some highly influential and very in-depth philosophers who, building from Marx, have provided very insightful views into how society functions, the structure of power, and how we are ingrained and indoctrinated by social, political, and economic beliefs and institutions. Because of massive efforts to demonize Marx, most people are oblivious about his social philosophies and how they have been developed over the years, and have no idea his philosophy was more than just critiques of Capitalism and the economic approach of Communism. A very significant part of Marxist philosophy, which revolves around ideology, can be said to be similar to John Nada's glasses in the movie They Live. And it doesn't matter if you're a Capitalist, Communist, Socialist, or whatever, these philosophies of ideology equally apply to all human societies.

I can almost hear the so-called "progressives" swooning...

 

[columbus]

Well, it took about 4 centuries for Christians to get hold of real power. And they didn't have to deal with the legacy of people like Stalin.

Back in the 80s I met a guy from the USSR. Young man, very personable. I think he assumed I was Christian, at first. He explained all about Jesus.

Jesus was an ancient Communist. He was a social reformer who vehemently opposed the rich elite and the religious elite who supported them. He wanted the world better for everybody, including the weak and the poor. He fought for this.
So the powers-that-were killed Him publically and painfully. They did not want that. Unfortunately for Jesus there is no God who cares.

We have to do it for ourselves.
Care, that is.

Tom

 

[Revoltingest]

Robert Owen (a Pre-Marxian Communist) actually did that in New Harmony, Indiana. It failed 'of course'. There's also a brief Wikipedia article on The Co-operative Movement in the US. Many early socialists were hopeful the co-operative movement could simply 'buy out' capitalism and make it more humane because when people were treated better, they worked harder and were more productive. Both ideas are compatible with Capitalism and Liberalism to a greater or lesser extent. So we've been at this for a long time.

Well, I say keep on trying, & take your successes where you find them.

 

[Revoltingest]

And have so tragically little to show for it.

Hey, how did you get Red's post attributed to me? Spooky!

 

[dust1n]

Hello, fellow traveler.

 

[ShivaFan]

Alexander Solzhenitsyn taught me everything I need to know about communism. I will never allow such ideologues of elitist government class totalitarians any power over my freedom and certainly not over my family, it is a sick religion and communism and Islamic extremism both are religions that are proven failures ever killing others who they blame when their failed utopias never materialise. As a Hindu, I certainly am willing to help someone free themselves from such cults if I can and if the cultist is willing, bit too many of them I have encountered actually have personal issues and demons, but some can be helped, I have turned a couple of them around but often it is a waste of time and the best thing to do is make sure they don't ever get their hands on children and certainly not government power. There is no future as far as where communism and Islamic extremism is concerned 100 years from now, there moments other than their butchery actually are but a blink of the eye in history. As far as Jesus being a communist, as a Hindu that isn't too important to me but even I have to laugh at that one, Jesus was a Jew with Royal blood and there is zero comparison to Pol Pot or Mao or Stalin, or for that matter Hitler who was a National Socialist and really all the same leftist extremism. Just because two communist types declare war on each other doesn't mean they are the same spots on the leopard, in fact it is expected that such a big government regime will turn on their brother or sister, they kill their own children too because their way never worked nor will it and they always blame the "jew" (whoever, someone other than themself) when it is obvious they have failed, the only thing is when your goal is an impossible utopia and you fail then those who are responsible for it given the power kill everyone else they can as "unworthy of utopia".

Anyway, since the introduction here was really more of a thread on communism and less an introduction, I thought I would rant a bit too to just join in on the fun. But if there are any questions from someone who is interested in my religion, no problem, ask away.

 

[Smart_Guy]

Welcome aboard

Is it true that you do not own anything expensive in communism?

 

[Laika]

Actually, we have some highly influential and very in-depth philosophers who, building from Marx, have provided very insightful views into how society functions, the structure of power, and how we are ingrained and indoctrinated by social, political, and economic beliefs and institutions. Because of massive efforts to demonize Marx, most people are oblivious about his social philosophies and how they have been developed over the years, and have no idea his philosophy was more than just critiques of Capitalism and the economic approach of Communism. A very significant part of Marxist philosophy, which revolves around ideology, can be said to be similar to John Nada's glasses in the movie They Live. And it doesn't matter if you're a Capitalist, Communist, Socialist, or whatever, these philosophies of ideology equally apply to all human societies.

This is definitely true. As a way of explaining how society works, Marxism has some phenomenal insights, which is why despite it's history, I keep coming back to it. Often it's like "why did I not see that before!"

But Marxism is a philosophy of practice, and in 'practice', we're still struggling. We successfully got power in the twentieth century (and in the 1970's, people were beginning to think communism might even win the Cold War if I'm not mistaken), but Communism was not a superior system to Capitalism overall. We had successes and managed to industrialize the USSR (and until the 80's the Soviet economy was doing really well), fight off the Nazi's, and some early successes in the Space race, but communism was supposed to make people free and we failed pretty miserably in that regard.
But yeah. The sheer level of demonisation of Communism as inevitably 'totalitarian' and evil, as well as general ignorance makes it very difficult to talk about communism, at least off the internet.

And 'They Live' is an excellent movie. "OBEY".

 

[Laika]

Welcome aboard

Is it true that you do not own anything expensive in communism?

I think it was Milton Friedman who said "There is no such thing as a free lunch" and he is right. The difference is that under the 'ideal' communist system, money would be abolished and the unit of account would be in terms of physical quantities of resources used. So, yeah, you can have 'expensive' stuff under communism- but the expense is measured differently.

Another side of it is that, obviously communism has to change people's 'wants' so they don't make unreasonable demands on the economy. This isn't as hard as it sounds, as a great deal of the wants in our society are manufactured by mass media as a form of status competition and conspicuous consumption. It's making people deeply unhappy because by measuring people's self-worth according to material possessions, they are left perpetually insecure.

 

[Smart_Guy]

Thank you.

I heard that communism originally does not allow you to own or earn more than life's basics, and what you earn, they have the full right of taking it away from you. Is this true?

 

[columbus]

Welcome aboard

Is it true that you do not own anything expensive in communism?

I bet Putin has a better Mercedes Benz than you or Obama have.

But not what Saudi royalty have someone drive for them. Or the Bushes and Clintons either.

Tom

 

[Smart_Guy]

Owning a Mercedes and letting someone else drive it is a waste