A "Deep" Question

[sandy whitelinger]

I assume you are talking about the Genesis account of creation, here it is;

Genesis 1King James Version (KJV)

"1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.

7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day."

I see what you mean. It seems that in V:7 that there was indeed waters both above and below the firmament which He called Heaven.

Ok, you want to go that far in the text. The expanse which separated the waters from above from the waters below is called the "firmament of heaven. " This is not the heaven of 1:1. Now, by verse 6, when the firmament of heaven appears, there is God, heaven, a formless and void earth, the waters, light, dark, day and night. The firmament separated the water with what we know as space. So outside of the firmament is the water on one side, presumably earth, which leaves the waters above to be where? Heaven of 1:1 is the only choice I see.

 

[dfnj]

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. Next all of a sudden there is a deep and water. Was that part of heaven or earth or both?

Heaven, earth, water, I don't know. But women, was it a mistake or did He do it to us on purpose?

"When we make mistake they call it evil, When God makes a mistake they call it nature.

So what do you think, women, a mistake, or did he do it to us on purpose?

Because I really want to know.

If it's a mistake then maybe we can do something about it. Find a cure. Invent a vaccine. Build up our immune systems. Do a little exercise. You know, 20 pushups a day...."

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Heaven, earth, water, I don't know. But women, was it a mistake or did He do it to us on purpose?

"When we make mistake they call it evil, When God makes a mistake they call it nature.

So what do you think, women, a mistake, or did he do it to us on purpose?

Because I really want to know.

If it's a mistake then maybe we can do something about it. Find a cure. Invent a vaccine. Build up our immune systems. Do a little exercise. You know, 20 pushups a day...."

I'm tear n my hair out here (figuratively of course, I don't have a handful to grab). Good gosh man, start your own thread.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Heaven, earth, water, I don't know. But women, was it a mistake or did He do it to us on purpose?

"When we make mistake they call it evil, When God makes a mistake they call it nature.

So what do you think, women, a mistake, or did he do it to us on purpose?

Because I really want to know.

If it's a mistake then maybe we can do something about it. Find a cure. Invent a vaccine. Build up our immune systems. Do a little exercise. You know, 20 pushups a day...."

Misogynist drivel.

 

[dfnj]

Misogynist drivel.

Women have more power than they are willing to admit. I wan't trying to be negative. I just thought the sentiment was profoundly humorous.

 

[dfnj]

I'm tear n my hair out here (figuratively of course, I don't have a handful to grab). Good gosh man, start your own thread.

Sorry. When I read the OP this is what popped into my head. I don't know what it means!

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. Next all of a sudden there is a deep and water. Was that part of heaven or earth or both?

I cannot help myself, I have to say it: this sort of question is -- to me, personally -- exactly equivalent to questions like, "How much does Thursday weigh, in Troy ounces?"

 

[dfnj]

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. Next all of a sudden there is a deep and water. Was that part of heaven or earth or both?

My second thought was about women. My first thought was "heaven" meaning the alternate dimension where God sits on his throne and judges people after they die. And then someone said the other day "heaven" meant the stars and Universe.

And now I'm thinking about some stupid fashion magazine quiz to figure out your personality. My wife and her girlfriend were giving me the quiz. The question was what is your favorite body of water and why? I said the ocean because it's deep and mysterious. In the quiz they said your favorite body of water and why is how you feel about your sex life. I felt pretty good about my answer!

I think I will go with the water was only on Earth. And it was deep and mysterious!

 

[sandy whitelinger]

I cannot help myself, I have to say it: this sort of question is -- to me, personally -- exactly equivalent to questions like, "How much does Thursday weigh, in Troy ounces?"

Thursday weighs 125lbs and is 36-22-36. Would you like her number?

 

[sandy whitelinger]

My second thought was about women. My first thought was "heaven" meaning the alternate dimension where God sits on his throne and judges people after they die. And then someone said the other day "heaven" meant the stars and Universe.

And now I'm thinking about some stupid fashion magazine quiz to figure out your personality. My wife and her girlfriend were giving me the quiz. The question was what is your favorite body of water and why? I said the ocean because it's deep and mysterious. In the quiz they said your favorite body of water and why is how you feel about your sex life. I felt pretty good about my answer!

I think I will go with the water was only on Earth.

Well, I guess if there was deep and mysterious water then the sex was good in the beginning...but then again it usually is.

 

[dfnj]

Thursday weighs 125lbs and is 36-22-36. Would you like her number?

Terrific answer!

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Thursday weighs 125lbs and is 36-22-36. Would you like her number?

Nope. I'm gay.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Nope. I'm gay.

She might make you bi.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

My point, however, is that the sheer ignorance of the composers of Genesis about physics , cosmology and other sciences led them to propose creation stories that are essentially meaningless. Welcome to humanity -- if you can't find an answer, make something up. It's what we do.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

She might make you bi.

Only if you allow for the possibility that some of my favourite men might do the same for you.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Only if you allow for the possibility that some of my favourite men might do the same for you.

Hasn't yet, but what the hey.

 

[jhwatts]

To understand part of what transpired between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2, read Genesis 1:1 then read Genesis 2:4 through Genesis 4:26. It has much less to do with the creation of the universe than most think.

 

[jhwatts]

Sheesh. I'm just trying to figure out how the deep got there and where it existed...using the text. I have no idea what these other guys are doing and it's my thread.

Its frustrating isn't it. The best thing to do is just to ignore them. You don't have to respond to their post or converse with them.

 

[Deeje]

By definition the heavens would not be in the water. (Unless I am missing your point) My question has been about the earth being "void and without form." Was it void and without form, covered in water because God created it that way. Or was it flooded in order to clean the slate (so to speak) and start over from scratch with new life forms. I don't know. Interesting subject to ponder, but scriptural certainty I do not know. @Deeje might have a thought.

I see a lot of assumptions getting in the way on this thread. I just read what the Bible says and try to visualise what is being said.

"In the beginning" in Genesis 1:1 has to mean the beginning of material creation. In this instance, the "beginning" of the universe...."the heavens and the earth".

The word "heavens" has different meanings dependent on the context.
1) It can mean the sky where the birds fly, or....
2) it can mean the place where the heavenly bodies are seen...
3) it can mean the invisible realm where God and his angels reside. It has the connotation of something high and lofty....."up there".

The word "beginning" can also be confusing....e.g. Jesus is said to be "the beginning of the creation by God" (Revelation 3:14) Since Jesus was present at the creation of material things, (Genesis 1:26) the "beginning of God's creation" obviously means that his creation also extends to the spiritual realm.

Reading the account with a visual image of God creating the universe in one colossal act (the Big Bang) helps us to read the rest of the account accordingly. Since water is mentioned at the outset, it is apparent that the whole planet was at first completely covered in water (created that way) and that God separated the waters to become a canopy above the atmosphere, creating the "heavens" below it where birds fly and where our life sustaining oxygen is trapped, (thankfully) and the waters on the surface of the planet where God eventually made dry land come up. No longer formless or void, earth began to be prepared to host life.

When people start imagining all sorts of other things, then I can't understand where all those things come from. I try to visualise what they mean but I guess they read the words differently to me.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

I see a lot of assumptions getting in the way on this thread. I just read what the Bible says and try to visualise what is being said.

"In the beginning" in Genesis 1:1 has to mean the beginning of material creation. In this instance, the "beginning" of the universe...."the heavens and the earth".

The word "heavens" has different meanings dependent on the context.
1) It can mean the sky where the birds fly, or....
2) it can mean the place where the heavenly bodies are seen...
3) it can mean the invisible realm where God and his angels reside. It has the connotation of something high and lofty....."up there".

The word "beginning" can also be confusing....e.g. Jesus is said to be "the beginning of the creation by God" (Revelation 3:14) Since Jesus was present at the creation of material things, (Genesis 1:26) the "beginning of God's creation" obviously means that his creation also extends to the spiritual realm.

Reading the account with a visual image of God creating the universe in one colossal act (the Big Bang) helps us to read the rest of the account accordingly. Since water is mentioned at the outset, it is apparent that the whole planet was at first completely covered in water (created that way) and that God separated the waters to become a canopy above the atmosphere, creating the "heavens" below it where birds fly and where our life sustaining oxygen is trapped, (thankfully) and the waters on the surface of the planet where God eventually made dry land come up. No longer formless or void, earth began to be prepared to host life.

When people start imagining all sorts of other things, then I can't understand where all those things come from. I try to visualise what they mean but I guess they read the words differently to me.

You mentioned assumptions then went on ahead with yours. First you assume God created everything and he created it ex nihlo.

I fail to see how Genesis1:26 shows that Jesus created everything.

The canopy? The firmament separated the waters from above from the waters below and God put the sun, moon and stars there, Genesis1:14-19. We tend to call that outer space. We have earth, firmament and heaven. Since the fimament separated the waters, that puts the waters above in heaven.