A Gay Christian?

[Callmepaul]

Is there a polite way to inform fundamentalist or evangilical christians that as a gay man you believe God accepts you as you are and you have no need to repent? How do you combat the concept that you are living a 'chosen' lifestyle?

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Yes. Be polite when you tell them this.

If they get combative, just walk away.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

I would bring up the fact that I am a kind and compassionate man whose life's experiences have led me to find intimacy in other men.

In terms of the second question, I would ask: Why would I choose a lifestyle that could lead to a lot of emotional and physical harm due to social prejudice and alienation? Or, I would befuddle them with philosophical questions about the absurdity of freewill. Is there any such thing as choice?

And if I could not argue against it being a choice, I would ask what is so wrong about choosing a preference. Where is the proof that homosexuality is immoral? It seems ridiculous to chastise a group of people for loving each other while other groups harrass, bully, and hurt them.

Hope this helps!

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Here are some thoughts that I have for you...

1) Just because you are naturally gay does not mean that you don't have any sexual sins that you need to address with God (repent of)

2) You many need to recoincile your beliefs about homosexuality with Scripture, if that is important in your church.

3) If you attend a church that celebrates heterosexual sex for recreation (as many Protestants do), they have no reason to reject homosexual sex, as long as that sex is in a lifelong monogamous commitment, which Christianity cherishes.

 

[Fluffy]

Simply say "I am gay and believe that God is okay with my homosexuality. I understand that you feel I should repent but hopefully you can see that I cannot do as you wish because I believe differently to you. Perhaps we can agree to disagree?"

In that you have presented your case, indicated that you have made some effort to listen and understand their point of view and suggested a positive, reasonable course of action. They can't really expect anything more from you than that and if they do then that is their problem, not yours.

If they retort with anything insulting then just smile at them and say that you are very sorry that they feel that way.

Convincing them that your lifestyle is not chosen is very difficult because their belief that it is will likely not be based on evidence or reasoning or at least not anything that you can create a convincing argument around. I tend to find that you get more out of a conversation if you remain open to the possibility that you are wrong and hope that whoever you converse with does you the same honour. You then spend less time being frustrated at their accusations, no matter how unjustified they may be, and more time trying to understand their point of view. Generally, this makes it far less upsetting, for me at least.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Talk about an oxymoron.

 

[Comprehend]

Simply say "I am gay and believe that God is okay with my homosexuality. I understand that you feel I should repent but hopefully you can see that I cannot do as you wish because I believe differently to you. Perhaps we can agree to disagree?"

In that you have presented your case, indicated that you have made some effort to listen and understand their point of view and suggested a positive, reasonable course of action. They can't really expect anything more from you than that and if they do then that is their problem, not yours.

If they retort with anything insulting then just smile at them and say that you are very sorry that they feel that way.

Convincing them that your lifestyle is not chosen is very difficult because their belief that it is will likely not be based on evidence or reasoning or at least not anything that you can create a convincing argument around. I tend to find that you get more out of a conversation if you remain open to the possibility that you are wrong and hope that whoever you converse with does you the same honour. You then spend less time being frustrated at their accusations, no matter how unjustified they may be, and more time trying to understand their point of view. Generally, this makes it far less upsetting, for me at least.

As somebody on the religious side of things, I would agree with Fluffy, I don't mind at all "agreeing to disagree." While I believe homosexuality is a sin, I also believe that we are all sinners. Just because I am not prone to that particular sin doesn't make me a better person, just a less public sinner.

He is exactly right that I as a LDS or a Christian cannot expect you to see things from my persective anymore than you can expect me to see them from yours. The only decent response I could possibly give to your statement would be to say that I respect your opinion and while I disagree, I understand we have fundamentally different worldviews that lead us to these differing opinions.

I would have to disagree with one point. I believe my position IS based upon reasoning, but reasoning from different knowledge.

 

[Reverend Rick]

As somebody on the religious side of things, I would agree with Fluffy, I don't mind at all "agreeing to disagree." While I believe homosexuality is a sin, I also believe that we are all sinners. Just because I am not prone to that particular sin doesn't make me a better person, just a less public sinner.

He is exactly right that I as a LDS or a Christian cannot expect you to see things from my persective anymore than you can expect me to see them from yours. The only decent response I could possibly give to your statement would be to say that I respect your opinion and while I disagree, I understand we have fundamentally different worldviews that lead us to these differing opinions.

I would have to disagree with one point. I believe my position IS based upon reasoning, but reasoning from different knowledge.

Excellent post!

 

[James the Persian]

As somebody on the religious side of things, I would agree with Fluffy, I don't mind at all "agreeing to disagree." While I believe homosexuality is a sin, I also believe that we are all sinners. Just because I am not prone to that particular sin doesn't make me a better person, just a less public sinner.

He is exactly right that I as a LDS or a Christian cannot expect you to see things from my persective anymore than you can expect me to see them from yours. The only decent response I could possibly give to your statement would be to say that I respect your opinion and while I disagree, I understand we have fundamentally different worldviews that lead us to these differing opinions.

I would have to disagree with one point. I believe my position IS based upon reasoning, but reasoning from different knowledge.

I agree with you on this entirely except for one thing. Homosexuality is not a sin any more than heterosexuality is. Attraction to members of your own sex is a passion which can only lead to sin if indulged. It is the act, not the feeling, that is sinful. As far as the OP, though, everyone needs to repent so I hope no Christian thinks they're right 'just as they are'. Disagreeing that certain things are sinful might be something I can agree to disagree on, but I will always oppose the idea that Christians are already 'saved' regardless - repentance and perseverance are certainly required from all.

James

 

[Comprehend]

I agree with you on this entirely except for one thing. Homosexuality is not a sin any more than heterosexuality is. Attraction to members of your own sex is a passion which can only lead to sin if indulged. It is the act, not the feeling, that is sinful. As far as the OP, though, everyone needs to repent so I hope no Christian thinks they're right 'just as they are'. Disagreeing that certain things are sinful might be something I can agree to disagree on, but I will always oppose the idea that Christians are already 'saved' regardless - repentance and perseverance are certainly required from all.

James

Thank you, you are quite right (as usual), it is the act not the feeling... my apologies.

 

[Jaymes]

If you think they're likely to listen to the American Psychiatric Association, here's a statement from them:

Is Sexual Orientation a Choice?

No, human beings can not choose to be either gay or straight. Sexual orientation emerges for most people in early adolescence without any prior sexual experience. Although we can choose whether to act on our feelings, psychologists do not consider sexual orientation to be a conscious choice that can be voluntarily changed.

 

[James the Persian]

If you think they're likely to listen to the American Psychiatric Association, here's a statement from them:

Is Sexual Orientation a Choice?

No, human beings can not choose to be either gay or straight. Sexual orientation emerges for most people in early adolescence without any prior sexual experience. Although we can choose whether to act on our feelings, psychologists do not consider sexual orientation to be a conscious choice that can be voluntarily changed.

I'm not a fundamentalist of any stripe but I wouldn't even listen to the APA's statements without further evidence. My involvement in mental health has made me only too aware of how often they are politically rather than scientifically motivated, although in this instance I think they happen to be right. Having said that, though, arguments of something being natural or innate are not going to wash with Christians that hold to traditional anthropology in any case. There's that little problem of human nature being altered by the Fall (and the fundies are quite likely to believe that human nature was utterly corrrupted by the fall - an attitude we certainly do not share).

James

 

[Jaymes]

I'm not a fundamentalist of any stripe but I wouldn't even listen to the APA's statements without further evidence. My involvement in mental health has made me only too aware of how often they are politically rather than scientifically motivated, although in this instance I think they happen to be right. Having said that, though, arguments of something being natural or innate are not going to wash with Christians that hold to traditional anthropology in any case. There's that little problem of human nature being altered by the Fall (and the fundies are quite likely to believe that human nature was utterly corrrupted by the fall - an attitude we certainly do not share).

James

I must admit I'm ignorant on whether Christianity (or only some denominations) believe animals were affected by the fall as well; were they? If not, one can easily show the 400+ species that homosexual behavior has been observed in (including the ones where it's not merely a dominance display) to answer that.

 

[Mike182]

Talk about an oxymoron.

did you just say that gays can't be Christian?

 

[angellous_evangellous]

did you just say that gays can't be Christian?

I don't think he knows what an oxymoron is.

 

[jamaesi]

You might want to bring up the point that while Jesus (pbuh) never said anything about homosexuals he did say not to judge others and to love everyone.

As somebody on the religious side of things, I would agree with Fluffy, I don't mind at all "agreeing to disagree." While I believe homosexuality is a sin, I also believe that we are all sinners. Just because I am not prone to that particular sin doesn't make me a better person, just a less public sinner.

So Callmepaul and I are not religious?

 

[Hema]

You don't have to prove anything to anyone. Only to God. That is how God made you and he loves you for who you are.

 

[Fluffy]

I would have to disagree with one point. I believe my position IS based upon reasoning, but reasoning from different knowledge.

Apologies. That is essentially what I meant but I expressed it badly.

 

[Katzpur]

Is there a polite way to inform fundamentalist or evangilical christians that as a gay man you believe God accepts you as you are and you have no need to repent? How do you combat the concept that you are living a 'chosen' lifestyle?

Probably not. You could remind them that your sexuality is really none of their business, though. They are, of course, entitled to their opinions, but what you do behind closed doors is between you, your partner and God. It shouldn't be a matter of any concern to anyone else.

 

[Reverend Rick]

I don't think he knows what an oxymoron is.

oxymoron: A figure of speech consisting of that form of antithesis in which, for emphasis or in an epigram, contradictory terms are brought sharply together.