A glance at Saudi government-approved fatwas

[dogsgod]

Is the Saudi government a US puppet regime?

 

[Sajdah]

TAKING FLOWERS TO THE SICK:

_ "This practice is impermissible as it entails wasting money on non-useful purposes and imitating Allah's adversaries in this custom."

I find it very absurd to ask a sheikh whether taking flowers to the sick permissible or not!!
I think we have much more important things to learn about from those scholars.

 

[Sajdah]

Some people thought the hadith mainly focuses on converting to other religions. Actually the hadith is more general than this, the word used in Arabic is "deen" which can include beliefs, manners and character. This mean Muslims can be included in this hadith meaning even when choosing a Muslim friend, it should be the one who has good manners, character and good faith. "Tell me who your friends and companions are, and I will tell you who you are" - I don't remember who said this but it could be Imam Ali. I believe it's very true.

Very well said!

 

[Badran]

Does anyone know if these fatwas have the force of law in Saudi Arabia, or are they advice and recommendations only?

I'd like to know too. The only one i know of, is the cinemas thing, i think its a law. There is a cinema or cinemas in one city there as far as i know, but generally there aren't any.

The swimming pool thing, i'd be pretty sure there are enforced rules too, but thats only a guess. What i want to know though is about the first and the last rule. The flowers and greeting fatwas. I can only hope these aren't laws. Not only because i disagree with them, but because they are dealing with very personal stuff and kind of small issues, which naturally the law shouldn't have any relation with.

 

[love]

The Associated Press: A glance at Saudi government-approved fatwas

It amazes me that one of the worlds most closed societies ruled by an absolute monarchy must enact such trivial laws to exert control over it's population. It's not that the "kafirs" are crashing the border to get in.
The Saud Royalty must not offend Islam, being as they are the keepers of Mecca and Medina, and they must instill in their subjects that to offend them offends Islam.
About the only "kafirs" in Saudi is the help and does it really matter if they go to hell?
A privileged Arab royal can travel the world and corrupt any number "kafir" women (temporary wife) that he can afford, there by condemning them, in his mind, to an eternity in hell and go back to his 300 ft. yacht and get a goods night sleep.If Islam is the light of the world why must so many people be shut out?

If you were in a lifeboat made for twenty and there were thirty people adrift in cold, turbulent seas would you ask their religion before you extended your hand to them or would you bring all thirty aboard and pray you were rescued before the lifeboat sank?

 

[Badran]

wow.
It looks like ALL the Muslims here on RF have me on ignore....

I think this part was aimed at answering your question:

Some people thought the hadith mainly focuses on converting to other religions. Actually the hadith is more general than this, the word used in Arabic is "deen" which can include beliefs, manners and character. This mean Muslims can be included in this hadith meaning even when choosing a Muslim friend, it should be the one who has good manners, character and good faith. "Tell me who your friends and companions are, and I will tell you who you are" - I don't remember who said this but it could be Imam Ali. I believe it's very true.

I'm not sure though, but it seems like its addressing your question.

 

[McBell]

I think this part was aimed at answering your question:

Some people thought the hadith mainly focuses on converting to other religions. Actually the hadith is more general than this, the word used in Arabic is "deen" which can include beliefs, manners and character. This mean Muslims can be included in this hadith meaning even when choosing a Muslim friend, it should be the one who has good manners, character and good faith. "Tell me who your friends and companions are, and I will tell you who you are" - I don't remember who said this but it could be Imam Ali. I believe it's very true.

I'm not sure though, but it seems like its addressing your question.

Thank you for pointing this out.
I completely missed it.

So the 'quote' is from a hadith, not the Koran?
Well nevermind then.

 

[EiNsTeiN]

Are there religious parties who are at ease with Western modernity and science in your country?

In my country, no one is even close to what I'm saying.

Would such a government make homosexuality illegal?

Yes, of course.

wow.
It looks like ALL the Muslims here on RF have me on ignore....

Excuse me, up to that post, I didn't find any of your earlier posts worth the attention.

Then I would fight against such a government's implementation to the death if there were nowhere else to go. No government should invade our civil liberties; even some of the countries with the most civil liberties are still infringing some too much.

So, your government is not invading your civil liberties some way or another?

Is the Saudi government a US puppet regime?

Excuse me?

 

[Badran]

Thank you for pointing this out.
I completely missed it.

So the 'quote' is from a hadith, not the Koran?
Well nevermind then.

No problem.

Yes, the quote is from a hadith. It doesn't mean one can't be friends with non-muslims. Like been said, i believe its talking about choosing one's friend in general, muslim or non-muslim.

 

[Badran]

Would such a government make homosexuality illegal?

Not in each muslim's idea of such government.

If you mean by making homosexuality illegal, that having sex with the same gender would be illegal, and punishable, then no.

Put in mind that there isn't a standard idea on everything which all view the same way, in regards to the rules that would be applied in such case.

 

[EiNsTeiN]

Mohammad really said that?
Do you think he meant that Muslims are so weak in their faith that they can not even be around others who do not share said faith?

Muslims are not weak in their faith, and we are ordered to be open to other societies and ideologies.

 

[Meow Mix]

well I think that first we have to be realistic, all governments around the world invade our liberties. the most basic reality in modern governments is having one central power, which demands from the people to be citizens who follow its norms.
about the last comment, there is a bit of irony that my apartheid state in the middle east.. as it were.. is the only state which legislated GLBT rights.

Sure, for instance we don't have the right to yell "Fire!" in a crowded theater if there is no fire... but that's vastly a different kind of civil restriction than forming a victimless "crime" like homosexuality.

I wouldn't care if law based on Islamic law were implemented as long as it respected civil liberties and freedoms; didn't impose a state religion, didn't prevent free speech or impose dress codes or try to dictate social conduct -- etc. That would be fine.

If any system of government were attempted that tries to tell me what to wear, that refuses to recognize the love between me and Alicia my lover and future wife (whenever it is legal), that gives me a set role based on my sex rather than on my merits, or anything remotely similar to that (and I'm not singling out Islamic law here), then I would either move or if I can't move... fight to the death against it. I would rather give my life fighting such oppression and backward thought (IMO) than live under arbitrary freedom-infringing mandates.

 

[Caladan]

d that tries to tell me what to wear, that refuses to recognize the love between me and Alicia my lover and future wife (whenever it is legal), that gives me a set role based on my sex rather than on my merits, or anything remotely similar to that (and I'm not singling out Islamic law here), then I would either move or if I can't move... fight to the death against it. I would rather give my life fighting such oppression and backward thought (IMO) than live under arbitrary freedom-infringing mandates.

I don't think you grasp the horror of living under a dictatorial theocracy Meow Mix.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Lol, well those are some interesting laws to abide by.

I honestly can't point the finger too harshly, though, when my own state has weird outdated laws still in it's books. Illinois can sometimes be rather insane....not in a Saudi kind of way, but in an Illinois kind of way. We each have our own brand of crazy, perhaps.

Btw, I consider not4me a friend. She and I disagree on so many issues, but so what? ....I'd still give her a Big Squishy Hug anytime she wants.

But back to my main point - yeah these fatwas are just plain silly. Makes me want to pinch their noses.

 

[Meow Mix]

I don't think you grasp the horror of living under a dictatorial theocracy Meow Mix.

I hope I'll never have to experience it and I wish I had more ability to help those unfortunates who must live that way.

It will be a good day if and when the whole planet knows what it means to be free and responsible, to welcome and tolerate other cultures and recognize the strengths and weaknesses in us all to learn from it and grow together.

 

[EiNsTeiN]

Sure, for instance we don't have the right to yell "Fire!" in a crowded theater if there is no fire... but that's vastly a different kind of civil restriction than forming a victimless "crime" like homosexuality.

I wouldn't care if law based on Islamic law were implemented as long as it respected civil liberties and freedoms; didn't impose a state religion, didn't prevent free speech or impose dress codes or try to dictate social conduct -- etc. That would be fine..

Homosexuality is among the biggest sins in Islam. This needs a separate thread to discuss. Anyway, regarding all the other aspects, you will have very little rules to guide your living under an Islamic state.

In an Islamic state, you can have freedom of speech and freedom of religion. The dress code ain't really an issue as long as you are following the simple golden rule of Islam; don't try to look sexy!

In an Islamic state, you are free to pursue the career you love.

In an Islamic state, no one will ever has the right to take over your money or properties.

In an Islamic state, you can live in peace and just, and everyone is alike in duties, responsibilities and rights.

Being a homosexual in an Islamic state is not a crime, and is totally tolerated and accepted. But committing homosexual acts is not. Just like any other sexual act (homosexual or straight).

 

[Caladan]

In an Islamic state, you can have freedom of speech and freedom of religion. The dress code ain't really an issue as long as you are following the simple golden rule of Islam; don't try to look sexy!

Now that would really be demoralizing. how can men maintain their mental health in such a reality?

 

[EiNsTeiN]

Now that would really be demoralizing. how can men maintain their mental health in such a reality?

What do you mean, Dan?

 

[Father Heathen]

The dress code ain't really an issue as long as you are following the simple golden rule of Islam; don't try to look sexy!

But what happens if someone happens to find hijabs and burkas sexy?

 

[EiNsTeiN]

But what happens if someone happens to find hijabs and burkas sexy?

He is damn lucky then.