A Literal Adam & Eve Would PROVE Evolution.

[FunctionalAtheist]

If the story of Adam & Eve is literal, and Adam is the father of all humans, and Eve is the mother of all humans, then the hypothesis that evolution does not occur would predict that there are no more than 4 alleles of any particular gene.

I'm aware that many do not see the story as literal. I'm aware that many religious people do accept evolution. I'm aware that many literalists don't know what an allele is, so most likely will not understand the import of the argument.

There are at least 34 blood group systems in humans, including the commonly referred to ABO system. Current science has cataloged 1605 alleles encoded within 44 genes, that produce various antigen and other protein surface characteristics of a humans blood.

dbRBC - Blood Group Antigen Gene Mutation Database

This proves definitively that two humans, male and female, could not have given rise to the complexity found within the human species unless evolution had occurred. Moreover, if Adam & Eve lived only 10k year ago or so, it shows that beneficial mutations arise at a rate much faster than even scientists claim.

Examples could be given in 1000s of animal species with multiple alleles proving that, if all animals are descended from a few individuals, then evolution must occur at a rate never before even imagined to account for the variability in the gene pool.

 

[Ouroboros]

There are at least 34 blood group systems in humans, including the commonly referred to ABO system. Current science has cataloged 1605 alleles encoded within 44 genes, that produce various antigen and other protein surface characteristics of a humans blood.

And that's just in the antigen genes. There are some loci (position in genes) that contains several hundred alleles in the world. The variation of alleles all throughout the DNA makes it impossible to only have come from some 1,000 generations ago.

 

[Looncall]

If the story of Adam & Eve is literal, and Adam is the father of all humans, and Eve is the mother of all humans, then the hypothesis that evolution does not occur would predict that there are no more than 4 alleles of any particular gene.

I'm aware that many do not see the story as literal. I'm aware that many religious people do accept evolution. I'm aware that many literalists don't know what an allele is, so most likely will not understand the import of the argument.

There are at least 34 blood group systems in humans, including the commonly referred to ABO system. Current science has cataloged 1605 alleles encoded within 44 genes, that produce various antigen and other protein surface characteristics of a humans blood.

dbRBC - Blood Group Antigen Gene Mutation Database

This proves definitively that two humans, male and female, could not have given rise to the complexity found within the human species unless evolution had occurred. Moreover, if Adam & Eve lived only 10k year ago or so, it shows that beneficial mutations arise at a rate much faster than even scientists claim.

Examples could be given in 1000s of animal species with multiple alleles proving that, if all animals are descended from a few individuals, then evolution must occur at a rate never before even imagined to account for the variability in the gene pool.

Since we can estimate mutation rates, what this shows is that the biblical account is balderdash.

 

[averageJOE]

If the story of Adam & Eve is literal, and Adam is the father of all humans, and Eve is the mother of all humans, then the hypothesis that evolution does not occur would predict that there are no more than 4 alleles of any particular gene.

I'm aware that many do not see the story as literal. I'm aware that many religious people do accept evolution. I'm aware that many literalists don't know what an allele is, so most likely will not understand the import of the argument.

There are at least 34 blood group systems in humans, including the commonly referred to ABO system. Current science has cataloged 1605 alleles encoded within 44 genes, that produce various antigen and other protein surface characteristics of a humans blood.

dbRBC - Blood Group Antigen Gene Mutation Database

This proves definitively that two humans, male and female, could not have given rise to the complexity found within the human species unless evolution had occurred. Moreover, if Adam & Eve lived only 10k year ago or so, it shows that beneficial mutations arise at a rate much faster than even scientists claim.

Examples could be given in 1000s of animal species with multiple alleles proving that, if all animals are descended from a few individuals, then evolution must occur at a rate never before even imagined to account for the variability in the gene pool.

But...but...but...dog's cannot produce non dogs!!!

 

[Sapiens]

God just made it that way to test you ... the little trickster.

 

[Ouroboros]

God just made it that way to test you ... the little trickster.

Loki is God!

 

[Yerda]

This proves definitively that two humans, male and female, could not have given rise to the complexity found within the human species unless evolution had occurred. Moreover, if Adam & Eve lived only 10k year ago or so, it shows that beneficial mutations arise at a rate much faster than even scientists claim.

The usual way of getting around this kind of thing is by postulating a demarcation point in the mutability of life i.e. this is micro-evolution. Which is fine, apparently.

 

[FunctionalAtheist]

The usual way of getting around this kind of thing is by postulating a demarcation point in the mutability of life i.e. this is micro-evolution. Which is fine, apparently.

Except there is no such thing as a scientific distinction between micro- and macro- evolution. There are only people that do not understand the distinction between evolution and the origin of species.

 

[FunctionalAtheist]

The usual way of getting around this kind of thing is by postulating a demarcation point in the mutability of life i.e. this is micro-evolution. Which is fine, apparently.

Another argument would be that, if god created us in his image, then why did evolution see fit to multiply the diversity in humans a thousand fold?

 

[Ouroboros]

The usual way of getting around this kind of thing is by postulating a demarcation point in the mutability of life i.e. this is micro-evolution. Which is fine, apparently.

There's not enough time in 6,000 years to micro-evolve on a level to create that diversity of alleles.

The variation is too great. The differences between mtDNA in neanderthals and humans for instance. There must'e been at least 150-200,000 years for that to happen.

Unless you accept that evolution can "micro-evolve" with an extreme pace, like 100 times faster, i.e. every born human having thousands and thousands of mutations. That would do it. Super-evolution is the answer to solve it. So instead of simple, normal, scientific evolution, we have to solve it with a magical super-evolution that bypasses all laws of nature!

 

[idav]

Religion gets the idea, humans all have a common ancestor. Science agrees they just take further and broaden the scope to include all animals. As long as your willing to accept being an animal I dont see the issue. Somehow many creationists expect evolution is somehow how true for every species on the planet except humans whom dont like to be called apes or monkeys.

 

[FunctionalAtheist]

Religion gets the idea, humans all have a common ancestor. Science agrees they just take further and broaden the scope to include all animals. As long as your willing to accept being an animal I dont see the issue. Somehow many creationists expect evolution is somehow how true for every species on the planet except humans whom dont like to be called apes or monkeys.

I have hair and mammary glands. That makes me a mammel by definition. And that makes me an animal by definition. I have all the traits that unite the apes into one group.

I've found many people that do not like to admit what they are.

 

[Ouroboros]

Religion gets the idea, humans all have a common ancestor. Science agrees they just take further and broaden the scope to include all animals. As long as your willing to accept being an animal I dont see the issue. Somehow many creationists expect evolution is somehow how true for every species on the planet except humans whom dont like to be called apes or monkeys.

And a funny thing is, I remember several sermons where the issue of "humanness" came up. What's separating us from animals? Some of the things were that we declare war and kill people and animals just for the fun of it (which isn't true by the way, we're not unique in that sense). So, the preacher tried to make it look like humans are terrible creatures who needs salvation from themselves (Jesus, is the answer, of course). So here we have that we're worse than animals... yet the same people would be offended if we call humans animals? It would be a step up if it's true that we're these sinful, despicable creatures who needs salvation.

 

[Yerda]

There's not enough time in 6,000 years to micro-evolve on a level to create that diversity of alleles.

The variation is too great. The differences between mtDNA in neanderthals and humans for instance. There must'e been at least 150-200,000 years for that to happen.

Unless you accept that evolution can "micro-evolve" with an extreme pace, like 100 times faster, i.e. every born human having thousands and thousands of mutations. That would do it. Super-evolution is the answer to solve it. So instead of simple, normal, scientific evolution, we have to solve it with a magical super-evolution that bypasses all laws of nature!

Along with the OP this is good, clear stuff. Well put.

 

[Yerda]

Are there any literalists?

 

[Ouroboros]

Are there any literalists?

I think it's a shrinking group.

I used to be one, so I know it's one less at least.

 

[Sue D.]

Literalists Are a shrinking group -- but I'm one of them, also.