A Mystery

[AiR]

Whenever we do something, how do we do it?

We do it either from our experience of how we have done it before or through the experience of someone who has done it before. We can recollect from memory – we may have read about it, seen it being done or heard about it. But if we have not read or heard about it, have no personal experience of it and haven’t seen it being done before, then, could we ever do something? Chances are – no. But how does a baby, that is just born, know even with its eyes closed that it has to drink its mother’s milk to survive? Isn’t it a paradox? How is it possible for that young baby to know this? The young infant has just arrived into the world. It hasn’t been told how to do it, it hasn’t seen this before, nor has it ever experienced it - then how does this young baby do it?

This is a very important question to ponder on because this will make us realize certain truths that will help us uncover the mystery of life. But before we can uncover the mystery of life, we must stop and ponder on this: How is it possible for this young baby to be born and start doing things that nobody has taught it to do; things that he has never experienced before? How does this magic happen?

AiR

 

[DawudTalut]

Whenever we do something, how do we do it?

We do it either from our experience of how we have done it before or through the experience of someone who has done it before. We can recollect from memory – we may have read about it, seen it being done or heard about it. But if we have not read or heard about it, have no personal experience of it and haven’t seen it being done before, then, could we ever do something? Chances are – no. But how does a baby, that is just born, know even with its eyes closed that it has to drink its mother’s milk to survive? Isn’t it a paradox? How is it possible for that young baby to know this? The young infant has just arrived into the world. It hasn’t been told how to do it, it hasn’t seen this before, nor has it ever experienced it - then how does this young baby do it?

This is a very important question to ponder on because this will make us realize certain truths that will help us uncover the mystery of life. But before we can uncover the mystery of life, we must stop and ponder on this: How is it possible for this young baby to be born and start doing things that nobody has taught it to do; things that he has never experienced before? How does this magic happen?

AiR

Peace be on you.
There are other mysteries too:
Eel fish are born in the open ocean. They can’t see anything around except blue water. It’s just blue water until they come to the coastal areas, where they first enter estuaries and streams at random. And then, ten to thirty years later when they leave the river, they have to swim all the way out to the same place in the ocean again. And how do they do that?
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/nature/the-mystery-of-eels-book-excerpt-eels-by-james-prosek/8242/

The Maker teaches them inborn lessons.

Simple.

 

[fantome profane]

Whenever we do something, how do we do it?

We do it either from our experience of how we have done it before or through the experience of someone who has done it before. We can recollect from memory – we may have read about it, seen it being done or heard about it. But if we have not read or heard about it, have no personal experience of it and haven’t seen it being done before, then, could we ever do something? Chances are – no. But how does a baby, that is just born, know even with its eyes closed that it has to drink its mother’s milk to survive? Isn’t it a paradox? How is it possible for that young baby to know this? The young infant has just arrived into the world. It hasn’t been told how to do it, it hasn’t seen this before, nor has it ever experienced it - then how does this young baby do it?

This is a very important question to ponder on because this will make us realize certain truths that will help us uncover the mystery of life. But before we can uncover the mystery of life, we must stop and ponder on this: How is it possible for this young baby to be born and start doing things that nobody has taught it to do; things that he has never experienced before? How does this magic happen?

AiR

Genetics.

 

[Riverwolf]

Whenever we do something, how do we do it?

We do it either from our experience of how we have done it before or through the experience of someone who has done it before. We can recollect from memory – we may have read about it, seen it being done or heard about it. But if we have not read or heard about it, have no personal experience of it and haven’t seen it being done before, then, could we ever do something? Chances are – no. But how does a baby, that is just born, know even with its eyes closed that it has to drink its mother’s milk to survive? Isn’t it a paradox? How is it possible for that young baby to know this? The young infant has just arrived into the world. It hasn’t been told how to do it, it hasn’t seen this before, nor has it ever experienced it - then how does this young baby do it?

I don't think babies "know" it, any more than we "know" how to see. We just... can.

This is a very important question to ponder on because this will make us realize certain truths that will help us uncover the mystery of life. But before we can uncover the mystery of life, we must stop and ponder on this: How is it possible for this young baby to be born and start doing things that nobody has taught it to do; things that he has never experienced before? How does this magic happen?

Non-human animals share in this phenomenon. Spiders are born with all the abilities they'll ever have. Foal can walk only minutes after being born.

Thing is, this isn't really a mystery at all. Certain aspects of it are, but on the whole, @fantome profane is correct: genetics.

 

[Meander_Z]

Babies are born with specific reflexes for survival. They have a list. If babies can't or don't do these things they can only survive through medical intervention. Humans and animals are not only influenced by the learning that happens during their lifetime, they have inherited behaviors. Ducks imprint on their mother, if mother is not handy they will imprint on a human or any other animal that is around... if it survives the encounter. Cats don't imprint. It's not in their bag of instinctual tricks and traits. Studies have been conducted that show that a bird will make a nest similar to the nests made by the rest of the species even if they have never encountered such a nest before.

I do agree with you that this is an amazing phenomenon. It's one that some scientist have become deeply fascinated with. I recommend looking at some of the writings of Carl Jung. He has suggested that human don't simply inherit bare bones survival behaviors but archetypal complexes, which shape our behavior just as much as our learned experiences in life. He viewed psychosis as being a result of a conflict between ones natural behaviors and the behaviors we have been taught. Of course he doesn't stop there, he postulates a collective unconscious as well and many other interesting and very controversial ideas.

My point mostly is that this isn't a brand new revelation, it's one that has been rolling around for some time, and does make an excellent jumping off point for spiritual explorations.

 

[Jonathan Ainsley Bain]

Genetics.

How do you know that?

 

[fantome profane]

How do you know that?

I read.

 

[Jonathan Ainsley Bain]

I read.

How did you learn to read?
Do you believe everything you read?

 

[fantome profane]

How did you learn to read?
Do you believe everything you read?

No I don't believe everything I read. But when someone offers a compelling argument that this is a sufficient answer to this "mystery" and backs that argument up with good empirical evidence then I am convinced that genetics is the answer. I don't see why this is still a mystery to some people in this day and age.

 

[YmirGF]

Whenever we do something, how do we do it?

We do it either from our experience of how we have done it before or through the experience of someone who has done it before. We can recollect from memory – we may have read about it, seen it being done or heard about it. But if we have not read or heard about it, have no personal experience of it and haven’t seen it being done before, then, could we ever do something? Chances are – no.

I couldn't disagree more. My brain is especially adept at solving complex problems. I just muddle through until I have a working idea of what to do. For example, I have taught myself both wood working and working with concrete. (To date, I have only read about mixing concrete in very low temperatures using anti-freeze. Other than that, nothing on either topic.) I'm a city slicker and didn't know a lick about either. I do have a highly refined sense of reason and a great imagination. If I don't know how to do something, I figure it out. It's almost an instinctual reflex.

But how does a baby, that is just born, know even with its eyes closed that it has to drink its mother’s milk to survive? Isn’t it a paradox? How is it possible for that young baby to know this? The young infant has just arrived into the world. It hasn’t been told how to do it, it hasn’t seen this before, nor has it ever experienced it - then how does this young baby do it?

My guess is automatic physiological reflex. The baby doesn't understand why or what it is doing. It has no real conception. The body knows instinctively what to do.

This is a very important question to ponder on because this will make us realize certain truths that will help us uncover the mystery of life. But before we can uncover the mystery of life, we must stop and ponder on this: How is it possible for this young baby to be born and start doing things that nobody has taught it to do; things that he has never experienced before? How does this magic happen?

"I'll go with automatic reflexive action, for $1000, Alex."

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

How is it possible for this young baby to be born and start doing things that nobody has taught it to do; things that he has never experienced before? How does this magic happen?

And why is spinach green?

 

[Jonathan Ainsley Bain]

No I don't believe everything I read. But when someone offers a compelling argument that this is a sufficient answer to this "mystery" and backs that argument up with good empirical evidence then I am convinced that genetics is the answer. I don't see why this is still a mystery to some people in this day and age.

What is the good empirical evidence?

I just see so many academics pretending complexity to get funding that I take no claim
at face value without solid proof that I can test myself.

Sure, we can see how people inherit traits from their ancestors,
but physical traits and psychological learning are worlds apart.

Simply answering 'genetics' does not explain any detail as to why some
people learn quickly, and others slowly or not at all.

Neither does simply saying 'genetics' explain how something
as mysterious as consciousness supposedly 'magically' manifests out of protons, electrons and neutrons.

 

[fantome profane]

What is the good empirical evidence?

I just see so many academics pretending complexity to get funding that I take no claim
at face value without solid proof that I can test myself.

Sure, we can see how people inherit traits from their ancestors,
but physical traits and psychological learning are worlds apart.

Simply answering 'genetics' does not explain any detail as to why some
people learn quickly, and others slowly or not at all.

Neither does simply saying 'genetics' explain how something
as mysterious as consciousness supposedly 'magically' manifests out of protons, electrons and neutrons.

Now you are getting into the hard problem of consciousness. I don't pretend to have an answer to that. But I don't need to answer the problem of consciousness to explain how an infant mammal has an instinctive urge to suckle. Genetics and evolution are a perfectly sufficient answer to that question.

 

[Riverwolf]

but physical traits and psychological learning are worlds apart.

Not really. Psychological stuff is based on the brain, which is a physical entity.

It's a well known fact that messing around with a brain can alter one's personality.

 

[Jonathan Ainsley Bain]

Not really. Psychological stuff is based on the brain, which is a physical entity.

It's a well known fact that messing around with a brain can alter one's personality.

It is a well known fact that there are no absolute psycho-physical laws at all.

 

[Riverwolf]

It is a well known fact that there are no absolute psycho-physical laws at all.

It's apparently not well-known enough for me to have a clue what you're talking about.

 

[Jonathan Ainsley Bain]

It's apparently not well-known enough for me to have a clue what you're talking about.

I could have said the same to you.
It was a foundational premise of Phil of Mind Hons.
Can you name one absolute psycho-physical law?

It's a well known fact that messing around with a brain can alter one's personality.

Every theory on brain & personality I have encountered has a counterexample.

 

[Riverwolf]

I could have said the same to you.
It was a foundational premise of Phil of Mind Hons.

Never heard of that.

Can you name one absolute psycho-physical law?

I have to know what you mean by that, first.

Every theory on brain & personality I have encountered has a counterexample.

So, you have examples of people who have been lobotomized and had nothing about their personalities and behaviors changed?

 

[Jonathan Ainsley Bain]

So, you have examples of people who have been lobotomized and had nothing about their personalities and behaviors changed?

Phineas Gage

Every theory on brain & personality I have encountered has a counterexample.

The various texts about whether he recovered or not, also follow this quote.

 

[Riverwolf]

Phineas Gage

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phineas_Gage#Brain_damage_and_mental_changes

In particular:

"Gage displayed significant changes in behavior after his injury, but the nature, extent, and duration of these changes have been difficult to establish."