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A Question About Faith...

Sunstone

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
If you have faith in a god or gods, would your faith still be of as much value to you as it is if there were no god or gods and you knew it?

What if there were no god or gods and you did not know it?



If you're interested, here's why I'm asking the question. It occurs to me that having faith in something functions in several ways, and that some of those ways might still function even if the thing one has faith in did not exist.

Simple example: Suppose you have faith that you can make it though hard times because "God is looking out for you", and this faith has served you well. Further suppose that one day you somehow discover God doesn't exist and never has existed. That would mean your faith had served you well even though God, unbeknownst to you at the time, did not exist. Under those circumstances, do you think there would be a way in which faith that you could make it through hard times might still work for you?
 
PureX

PureX

Veteran Member
Sunstone said:
If you have faith in a god or gods, would your faith still be of as much value to you as it is if there were no god or gods and you knew it?

What if there were no god or gods and you did not know it?



If you're interested, here's why I'm asking the question. It occurs to me that having faith in something functions in several ways, and that some of those ways might still function even if the thing one has faith in did not exist.

Simple example: Suppose you have faith that you can make it though hard times because "God is looking out for you", and this faith has served you well. Further suppose that one day you somehow discover God doesn't exist and never has existed. That would mean your faith had served you well even though God, unbeknownst to you at the time, did not exist. Under those circumstances, do you think there would be a way in which faith that you could make it through hard times might still work for you?
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Fortunately, there is no way for any of us to know if God exists or not, or what God's existence means to us if such does exist. So faith is always an option for us if we care to choose it. And as you pointed out, the faith itself, when rightly applied, can have a surprisingly positive effect, and does so for a great many people regardless of whether or not the God that they trust in exists or not.

I don't see how we could place our faith in a God that we knew didn't exist, however (if such knowledge were attainable). So faith in God under those conditions would probably not work fo us. But, fortunately for we humans, no such knowledge restrictions exist and we are free to act on our faith in whatever gods we imagine might exist.
 
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K

Kapalika

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Sunstone said:
If you have faith in a god or gods, would your faith still be of as much value to you as it is if there were no god or gods and you knew it?
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I think it's in accordance with Hindu values to have a bit' of give in one's beliefs, since we know any human medium isn't perfect and that those writing in the past, while doing their best, might of not understood certain things. We obtain new evidence all the time.

Sunstone said:
What if there were no god or gods and you did not know it?
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Gods are not real in the sense we are, I can say even if they are not real they still exist. Even if they didn't exist, it still wouldn't matter as they are recognized as something spiritually emergent who's function is to help us. It's optional, in a sense. I don't think anyone truly knows; the citta is limited due to ignorance.

Sunstone said:
Further suppose that one day you somehow discover God doesn't exist and never has existed. That would mean your faith had served you well even though God, unbeknownst to you at the time, did not exist. Under those circumstances, do you think there would be a way in which faith that you could make it through hard times might still work for you?
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The religions (such as HInduism, Satanism ect) where the concept of God(s) isn't necessary at least in any literal way, it's not so much an issue. One of the best things I learned early in my walk on the Left Hand Path, was that God doesn't have to be a literal anthropomorphic entity to have meaning in your life, but at least for me personally that also means having a more broad understanding/belief of/about divinity.
 
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Skwim

Skwim

Veteran Member
Sunstone said:
If you have faith in a god or gods, would your faith still be of as much value to you as it is if there were no god or gods and you knew it?
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I suppose it could be of value if you could compartmentalize your mind into facts, and needs. Closing the door to the facts while then indulging your needs.

What if there were no god or gods and you did not know it?
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And you had faith in them? That, then, would be misplaced faith.

If you're interested, here's why I'm asking the question. It occurs to me that having faith in something functions in several ways, and that some of those ways might still function even if the thing one has faith in did not exist.

Simple example: Suppose you have faith that you can make it though hard times because "God is looking out for you", and this faith has served you well. Further suppose that one day you somehow discover God doesn't exist and never has existed. That would mean your faith had served you well even though God, unbeknownst to you at the time, did not exist. Under those circumstances, do you think there would be a way in which faith that you could make it through hard times might still work for you?
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Good for you, I guess. There's nothing that says one's accomplishments, getting through hard times in this case, can only be based on reasonable beliefs and acts. "There are no atheists in foxholes" is a famous aphorism that speaks to this notion.

.
 
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Jayhawker Soule

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
Kapalika said:
One of the best things I learned early in my walk on the Left Hand Path, was that God doesn't have to be a literal anthropomorphic entity to have meaning in your life, ...
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Good grief: what the heck is a "literal anthropomorphic entity"? :D
 
K

Kapalika

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Jayhawker Soule said:
Good grief: what the heck is a "literal anthropomorphic entity"? :D
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III. Types of Anthropomorphism
a. Literal Anthropomorphism
The simplest form of anthropomorphism is when something is just literally shaped like a human, or literally shown as acting human. A cartoon animal who wears clothes is an example of literal anthropomorphism. Similarly, animals playing the piano or trees talking to each other would be examples of literal anthropomorphism.

Source: Anthropomorphism: Definition and Examples | LiteraryTerms

Funny enough, I just used it descriptively. Apparently it's a technical term. You learn something new everyday. In fairness I was also trying to communicate about it being a belief in it being a real thing and not just a depiction. Like Jesus or people thinking God is a real "person" even if not residing in our Universe.
 
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shmogie

shmogie

Well-Known Member
Sunstone said:
If you have faith in a god or gods, would your faith still be of as much value to you as it is if there were no god or gods and you knew it?

What if there were no god or gods and you did not know it?



If you're interested, here's why I'm asking the question. It occurs to me that having faith in something functions in several ways, and that some of those ways might still function even if the thing one has faith in did not exist.

Simple example: Suppose you have faith that you can make it though hard times because "God is looking out for you", and this faith has served you well. Further suppose that one day you somehow discover God doesn't exist and never has existed. That would mean your faith had served you well even though God, unbeknownst to you at the time, did not exist. Under those circumstances, do you think there would be a way in which faith that you could make it through hard times might still work for you?
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I think you misunderstand faith, at least as relates to a Christian. You have faith, that gravity will hold you down, or that a city you have never visited exists, or that man walked on the moon. Having faith in these may be of benefit to you in some way.

Christian faith isn´t about benefits or getting through hard times. Historically, it has brought terrible times to millions of believers, even death.

Christian faith is centered in one being, the manifestation of God, which will never and can never be found to be untrue, all else flows from that.
 
Mock Turtle

Mock Turtle

Oh my, did I say that!
Premium Member
Sunstone said:
If you have faith in a god or gods, would your faith still be of as much value to you as it is if there were no god or gods and you knew it?

What if there were no god or gods and you did not know it?



If you're interested, here's why I'm asking the question. It occurs to me that having faith in something functions in several ways, and that some of those ways might still function even if the thing one has faith in did not exist.

Simple example: Suppose you have faith that you can make it though hard times because "God is looking out for you", and this faith has served you well. Further suppose that one day you somehow discover God doesn't exist and never has existed. That would mean your faith had served you well even though God, unbeknownst to you at the time, did not exist. Under those circumstances, do you think there would be a way in which faith that you could make it through hard times might still work for you?
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The fact that a belief works for some, as per a placebo perhaps (already mentioned), should be enough, and I have no problem with that - as long as such beliefs do not impact on the freedoms of others. That is where my tolerance ends, when it affects me or others in some detrimental fashion. I would hope that we all lived our lives closer to the truth - but we can't expect miracles now can we! :D
 
sandy whitelinger

sandy whitelinger

Veteran Member
Sunstone said:
If you have faith in a god or gods, would your faith still be of as much value to you as it is if there were no god or gods and you knew it?

What if there were no god or gods and you did not know it?



If you're interested, here's why I'm asking the question. It occurs to me that having faith in something functions in several ways, and that some of those ways might still function even if the thing one has faith in did not exist.

Simple example: Suppose you have faith that you can make it though hard times because "God is looking out for you", and this faith has served you well. Further suppose that one day you somehow discover God doesn't exist and never has existed. That would mean your faith had served you well even though God, unbeknownst to you at the time, did not exist. Under those circumstances, do you think there would be a way in which faith that you could make it through hard times might still work for you?
Click to expand...
Why trouble yourself with such worthless drivel?
 
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