A question for RF UU's

[Djamila]

I have no pre-planned position or line or attack up my sleeve, I'm just curious.

It seems to me that a lot of our RF UU's are agnostic, or even athiest, as well. Why is that? How can you be either and still be a UU?

 

[Green Gaia]

Because we have no dogma or doctrine defining God and nothing that says one must believe this way or that way. UUs are free to develop individual concepts of God that are meaningful to us. We are also free to reject the term and concept altogether.

 

[Hacker]

I've always believed in the U/U principles but since I don't attend the church and I'm not affiliated with any organization associated with this religion, I took it off my profile. But I recently decided to look for a church in my area, my daughter is 4 and a half now, so I think attending a U/U church would be a great idea, this way she will be exposed to various religions, and she could choose for herself.
I believe in God, 99.5%.

 

[Djamila]

I think I understand. I thought UU was similar to the Bahai Faith, in that it was very open but it was still a "there is a God" faith. UU, I suppose, is a little more open then?

 

[Hacker]

I think I understand. I thought UU was similar to the Bahai Faith, in that it was very open but it was still a "there is a God" faith. UU, I suppose, is a little more open then?

Yes, there is no creed or dogma, it's basically a group of people with mixed beliefs(even athiests). I think the beauty in these services (at least the one in my area that I looked into) is that during each mass they forcus on a different religion, they even teach stuff from the Koran. So to me, I think it's a good idea to expand one's sprituality instead of just adhering to one specific creed/dogma.

 

[jacquie4000]

How do you go about finding a UU place of worship?

 

[Green Gaia]

I think I understand. I thought UU was similar to the Bahai Faith, in that it was very open but it was still a "there is a God" faith. UU, I suppose, is a little more open then?

We have no dogma or doctrine at all. We do have our 7 Priniciples in the bylaws of the UUA, although it should not be cosidered a statement of religious creed.

The Principles of the Unitarian Universalist Association

We, the member congregations of the Unitarian Universalist Association, covenant to affirm and promote

• The inherent worth and dignity of every person;
• Justice, equity and compassion in human relations;
• Acceptance of one another and encouragement to spiritual growth in our congregations;
• A free and responsible search for truth and meaning;
• The right of conscience and the use of the democratic process within our congregations and in society at large;
• The goal of world community with peace, liberty and justice for all;
• Respect for the interdependent web of all existence of which we are a part.

Individual freedom of belief is one of our basic principles, it follows that there will be differing beliefs among us. Found in today's churches are humanism, agnosticism, atheism, theism, liberal Christianity, neo-paganism and earth spiritualism. These beliefs are not mutually exclusive--it's possible to hold more than one. While we are bound by a set of common principles, we leave it to the individual to decide what particular beliefs lead to those principles.

We do have some similarities to the Baha'i Faith, but we are different as well. Both religions are pluralistic and see value and wisdom in most of the world's religions. Where we differ on that is Baha'i's will say that all these religions came from one Divine source, whereas we reject that idea and believe all religions to be man-made, thus rejecting the idea of revealed religion. We do not disparage the wisdom and teachings of these religions though and hold teachers such as Jesus, Buddha, Mohammud, and many other writers and thinkers as important figures, but they were all just men.

So, ask 10 UUs if they believe in a Divine Being and to describe that Being and you're likely to get 10 different answers.

 

[Green Gaia]

How do you go about finding a UU place of worship?

http://www.uua.org/CONG/

 

[Djamila]

Yes, there is no creed or dogma, it's basically a group of people with mixed beliefs(even athiests). I think the beauty in these services (at least the one in my area that I looked into) is that during each mass they forcus on a different religion, they even teach stuff from the Koran. So to me, I think it's a good idea to expand one's sprituality instead of just adhering to one specific creed/dogma.

Okay! So it's kind of like an organized interfaith organization, that even includes those with no faith in the God of the Abrahamic faiths?

Would you consider it a religion, or a religious community?

 

[jacquie4000]

Thanks Maize...

 

[Djamila]

We have no dogma or doctrine at all. We do have our 7 Priniciples in the bylaws of the UUA, although it should not be cosidered a statement of religious creed...

Can you be a devout Jew, Christian, or Muslims and still be a UU if you believe in those 7 basic principles - or is it more geared towards people who would describe themselves as spiritual?

Do different UU congregations have a completely different composition or are they mainly similar? Could you visit one congregation where most everyone would describe themselves as a Roman Catholic, and another where most people are Muslim, or are they all kind of a mix of different shades of spiritualists with a basis in a variety of faiths?

 

[Green Gaia]

Okay! So it's kind of like an organized interfaith organization, that even includes those with no faith in the God of the Abrahamic faiths?

Would you consider it a religion, or a religious community?

We consider UU a religion, not really an organized interfaith organization, although we do some some syncretic elements as well, it is not a requirement to be interfaith. UU is a faith only.

 

[Djamila]

I have a few friends who are officially communist by Bosnian terminology, but they tend to believe there is something - maybe God, maybe not God - and all the world's religions are man's attempt to try to explain it. So they're not empty of faith or spirituality, but they're certainly not Muslim.

Is this the type of person you think would feel good at UU congregation?

 

[Green Gaia]

Can you be a devout Jew, Christian, or Muslims and still be a UU if you believe in those 7 basic principles - or is it more geared towards people who would describe themselves as spiritual?

They of course would be welcome, now whether or not the would be comfortable if they are devout in a more restricive faith is another question. A person does not have to consider themselves to be spiritual to be a UU either.

Do different UU congregations have a completely different composition or are they mainly similar?

Yes and no. No two UU congregations are going to be exactly the same, although you will find similar elements in most if not all congregations. The congregation is made of up the people in it, not a defined set of beliefs. What may be a focus in one congregation, may not be in another simply because of the interests and beliefs of the people in the congregation.

Could you visit one congregation where most everyone would describe themselves as a Roman Catholic, and another where most people are Muslim, or are they all kind of a mix of different shades of spiritualists with a basis in a variety of faiths?

In my experience, most UUs are people who have left a variety of types of Christianity. This is true for me. Most come to UU looking for something else because what they were or grew up as doesn't fit. There are also life-long UUs, people who were brought up in UU since childhood. While some people may still hold onto referring to their beliefs by the religion they left, most just call themselves UUs.

 

[Green Gaia]

I have a few friends who are officially communist by Bosnian terminology, but they tend to believe there is something - maybe God, maybe not God - and all the world's religions are man's attempt to try to explain it. So they're not empty of faith or spirituality, but they're certainly not Muslim.

Is this the type of person you think would feel good at UU congregation?

They might.

 

[Hacker]

Okay! So it's kind of like an organized interfaith organization, that even includes those with no faith in the God of the Abrahamic faiths?

Would you consider it a religion, or a religious community?

I don't know if you got my private message, but I sent you more information about the church that I plan on going to.(the link).

 

[lilithu]

It seems to me that a lot of our RF UU's are agnostic, or even athiest, as well. Why is that? How can you be either and still be a UU?

Hi Djamila,

As Maize and tlcmel have said, UU has no creed or dogma. But that doesn't mean that UUs don't share common beliefs. UUs do not have a creed or dogma because we believe in the freedom of conscience above all else, and we wouldn't want to violate anyone's freedom of conscience by making them subscribe to ideas in which they don't believe. But we have that shared faith in conscience, and a shared faith in the worth of humanity.

As has been discussed recently in another thread here, Unitarian Universalism is a different kind of religion. Most (not all) religions start with a discussion on the nature of God or gods and from there go on to talk about the nature of humanity (whether it's good or fallen with respect to God). UUs start with the nature of humanity - we assert our inherent worth - and beyond that... it doesn't really matter.

Traditional theists are shocked by this and may think that means that those of us UUs who are theists are not really theists. I am a theist. I start my days in thanks to God and end my evenings in thanks to God and try to live every moment in between in thanks to God. BUT I sincerely believe that it doesn't matter if the person sitting next to me in the pew believes in the God that I believe in or not. Because my God is not so petty as to care whether someone believes in God or not. My God cares about the welfare of humans and how well we treat each other, not whether or not we espoused the correct dogma. For those of us who believe in God, God loves everyone... including those who do not believe. Therefore the question of belief in God is less important than the question of how we treat our fellow sisters and brothers.

 

[des]

Hi Djamila (she follows me around, posts where I post, etc. )!

Can you be a devout Jew, Christian, or Muslims and still be a UU if you believe in those 7 basic principles - or is it more geared towards people who would describe themselves as spiritual?

I'd imagine it would depend on your definition of "devout". I wonder if someone who would be conventionally devout would even believe in the 7 basic principles. Otoh, I have seen posts here that represent quite a devout form of Christianity, but not one that would be considered entirely mainstream.

Do different UU congregations have a completely different composition or are they mainly similar? Could you visit one congregation where most everyone would describe themselves as a Roman Catholic, and another where most people are Muslim, or are they all kind of a mix of different shades of spiritualists with a basis in a variety of faiths?

In any church run "congregationally", since I go to the UCC (United Church of Christ) church that used to be Congregationalist, I think I can speak to this, each church has a different character. No one is telling you from above how to run your affairs or what to think. (UU has a similar "background".) At the local UU church, which I have attended a few times, there are ex-Christians and Buddhists. Probably not many Muslims, just because we are in the middle of the SW. I think the no. of Muslims here is kind of low, this is a very Catholic state.

lilithu:
>Traditional theists are shocked by this and may think that means that those of us UUs who are theists are not really theists. I am a theist..--snip-- BUT I sincerely believe that it doesn't matter if the person sitting next to me in the pew believes in the God that I believe in or not. Because my God is not so petty as to care whether someone believes in God or not. My God cares about the welfare of humans and how well we treat each other, not whether or not we espoused the correct dogma. For those of us who believe in God, God loves everyone... including those who do not believe. Therefore the question of belief in God is less important than the question of how we treat our fellow sisters and brothers.

Amen sister, that is if you are a sister.


--des

 

[jamaesi]

Can you be a devout Jew, Christian, or Muslims and still be a UU if you believe in those 7 basic principles - or is it more geared towards people who would describe themselves as spiritual?

Yes. Works well for me.

 

[applewuud]

Dear Djamila--It depends what your definition of "religion" is. Unitarian Universalism is not an organized interfaith organization, although it historically inspired a lot of interfaith dialogue. Unitarians have their roots in the Protestant pilgrims who came to New England in the 17th century. There was a split in the pilgrim/puritan established churches after the American Revolution; the liberal ones became Unitarian (now UU) and the conservative ones became Congregational (now United Church of Christ). In Eastern parts of the U.S., most UU churches have steeples and bells and pews and are located across the town common from the UCC church. Both churches are democratic: the congregation is ultimately in charge, as Des pointed out.

To me, UUs are devoted to reality, and wherever honest inquiries into truth lead us must be part of a divine (if you want to use that word) purpose. There are those UUs who find traditional language about religion to be misleading. Others have been oppressed by past religious beliefs, and find "god language" actually hurtful. But they're still looking for ultimate reality, and a community that helps advance spiritual growth, even if they're theologically atheist. But the living tradition of UU does explicity draw from Jewish and Christian teachings as well as direct experience, other prophets and religions, humanists, and Earth-centered traditions. So someone who isn't willing to be in community with those who at least explore Abrahamic beliefs would probably go somewhere else.

I have known some very spiritual atheists and agnostic who attend UU churches. By "spiritual" I mean they have a sense of the wonder and mystery of life, as the scientist Carl Sagan did. To them, the classical personal God is likely a creation of our minds, a developmental stage of human development, and the mystery that we swim in is beyond human comprehension, so why get stuck with a limiting concept that makes people fight with each other because neither side can prove that its concept is objectively right?

In a UU congregation, we get to address ultimate concerns without fear of transgressing a preset doctrine. In the Baha'is, there's no doubt about who has the last word: Baha'u'llah, the prophet God sent in the 19th century. (Or, in contemporary issues, the Universal House of Justice, the international governing body.) He said all religions come from the same source, we should independently investigate the truth, women and men are equals, and lots of other liberal things UUs agree with, but the authority is different. For UUs, ideas come from the individual conscience, for Baha'is the principles were revealed directly to a prophet and then to us. Big difference in cosmology there, despite the policy similarities.