A Question for Trump Supporters

[9-10ths_Penguin]

We already get higher prices anyway. It can be easily solved through price controls.

So much for the free market, eh?

 

[idav]

Free trade - i.e. getting other countries to get rid of their protectionist approach to US imports in exchange for access to American markets - has been a big part of how the US became an economic superpower.

OTOH, the trade war with China that Trump is trying to start or his threats to repeal NAFTA aren't doing American workers or businesses any favours:



Trump draws ire of farmers targeted in Chinese trade dispute


Auto industry tells Trump 'We're winning with NAFTA'

Trump says if there is a trade deficit, just stop trading then you win. Simple economics but US didnt become a powerhouse by selling only in one country.

 

[Stevicus]

Free trade - i.e. getting other countries to get rid of their protectionist approach to US imports in exchange for access to American markets - has been a big part of how the US became an economic superpower.

Not really, no. The Southern cotton growers thought along those lines, but the Civil War proved that their economic system was far inferior to the Northern industrial economy which favored protectionism. It turned out to be a forward-thinking and insightful philosophy, as those industries became vital later on during the World Wars. If we remained a single-commodity agrarian state dependent on imports (which is what the Antebellum Southerners wanted and which is what conservative economists want today), then we would have been much weaker.

OTOH, the trade war with China that Trump is trying to start or his threats to repeal NAFTA aren't doing American workers or businesses any favours:

You can't put much stock in what corporations or their lobby groups say about anything. They're the same ones who suckered Americans into this mess in the first place. Their push towards free trade and outsourcing had nothing to do with caring about American workers. Quite the contrary, there were shades of malice in what they did, rooted in resentment against the gains made by labor unions during the 40s, 50s, and 60s.

The trade war has been going on all along. Trump didn't start it; it's been going on for decades. We're already losing big time. $1.1 billion in pork exports to China is a drop in the bucket compared to a $375 billion trade deficit. If America is reduced to an agrarian economy depending on farm products as income, then we've already lost, in more ways than one.

 

[Stevicus]

So much for the free market, eh?

The free market is a religion for some people, but I believe in practicality. Sometimes, it means having to go against religious dogma.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

You can't put much stock in what corporations or their lobby groups say about anything.

... or anyone who disagrees with you, apparently.

 

[Stevicus]

... or anyone who disagrees with you, apparently.

No need to be that way; just stating my opinion.

 

[Stevicus]

The money supply in the US is just fine. We create new money by the busload through fractional reserve banking and deficit spending. Balancing the trade deficit needs to go hand in hand with federal fiscal restraint or inflation rears it's ugly head.

I'm not saying everything will collapse tomorrow, but I'm hesitant to agree with the idea that it's "just fine."

The sad part of it all is that none of this was even necessary. America once had a solid economy which stuck to the basics. Apparently, that wasn't good enough for some of America's ruling class and other financial wizards who wanted to gamble away America's future to try to make really big money. Such policies also lead to federal fiscal irresponsibility, since it costs such an exorbitant amount to make the world safe for globalism and free trade.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

That makes him no different than any other wealthy individual who enters politics. The question was why did people support Trump, not whether or not Trump cares.

Now you're just being silly. Most wealthy people who enter politics are not billionaire demogouges born with a silver spoon in their mouths with no experience in statesmanship.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I do find it interesting that those who ostensibly purport to be liberals would embrace right-wing economic policies. This has been the Democrats' problem since the 1990s. They sold out to Reaganomics and wonder what happened to their support base.

And the Republicans, the party of Ayn Rand, are any better?

 

[Phantasman]

There's an awful lot of stuff you're laying at Trump's door without much in the way of a causal link.

Link? How do you take what you see and hear and put a link to it?

It's not only all over the media, but I can see it in my home town. Never saw so many "now hiring" signs in my area and constructing of new buildings. That with a great 401K report, and the first SS cost of living raise in many years is a good sign to me. I was asked the question and I answered. I can't say what others see and hear in their areas.

I meant to also add, it wasn't all Trump that defeated ISIS, but Mattis did play a part in working along side the others. It was the Russians, Turks and Iran as well. Trump is getting ready to hand the US involvement to the three to figure out. A good move, as we have done enough damage over the decades there.

Our media is so divided, the best way to find the real stories are aljazeera for the MI, and Pravda for Russia.

 

[Stevicus]

Now you're just being silly. Most wealthy people who enter politics are not billionaire demogouges born with a silver spoon in their mouths with no experience in statesmanship.

We've had all kinds enter politics in the U.S. The issue raised previously is whether or not a politician cares about the working class.

Granted, it's unlikely that billionaire demagogues born with silver spoons in their mouths would care about the plight of American workers, so whether Trump is actually sincere remains to be seen. I'm not arguing that Trump is being honest here; all I'm saying is that some of the things he said on the issue of trade, NAFTA, globalism, etc. resonated with a lot of voters. A lot of people have been saying the same things, including many on the left.

I'll admit it is somewhat mystifying and hard to believe that Trump would take this stance in the first place, since the vast majority of the GOP have been bigger cheerleaders for free trade than the Democrats have been.

 

[Stevicus]

And the Republicans, the party of Ayn Rand, are any better?

No, they're not. In fact, they're much worse.

 

[Revoltingest]

And the Republicans, the party of Ayn Rand, are any better?

Ayn Rand hated Libertarians.
I can't imagine how much lower her opinion was of Republicans.

 

[Stevicus]

Ayn Rand hated Libertarians.
I can't imagine how much lower her opinion was of Republicans.

She seemed to have quite a following a few years back. I never really got much into her philosophy, but I've encountered those who were. I didn't know she hated Libertarians. I wonder why. It would seem that Libertarians have a similar philosophy.

 

[Revoltingest]

She seemed to have quite a following a few years back.

Only among a loopy few.
Never among Republicans in general.
Remember that she was an atheist, yet so many Pubs are knuckle walking fundies.

I never really got much into her philosophy, but I've encountered those who were. I didn't know she hated Libertarians. I wonder why. It would seem that Libertarians have a similar philosophy.

She didn't seem to get along well with others.

I just started typing into my browser....
"ayn rand hated"
and it immediately suggested....
"ayn rand hated libertarians"
Even google knows this.

But Rand liked money.
Now, for your listening pleasure.....

 

[Twilight Hue]

Here's my thing about MAGA. Isn't it really a requirement for all politicians?

It's a great slogan. I'll give him credit for that.

It should be I would think. A lot of people bled and died for this country to make it what it is. To see so many people today "spit on the flag" or the nation in general says volumes about that persons personal appreciation for being in a country built on the ideals behind individual freedom and liberty.

If politicians are in office just for being selected to obtain powers and getting rich they need to get the hell out of the government. They all take an oath of office, but with some, I really do wonder if it's all just blah blah blah to them.

 

[Twilight Hue]

All the sincerity in the world doesn't make up for a lack of competence or integirty.

I don't know about that. Seems most of the issues from the left about Trump has to deal more with his personality and not his policymaking.

Trump is getting results.

 

[Twilight Hue]

The fact that the moral and critical thinking of recent Western leadership has failed US through the means of "political correctness" should probably explain why Trump has had such great support, at best.

Well it seems the public is starting to b**** slap the SJW and PC crowd back to where they belong. Good riddance I say.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

I'm not saying everything will collapse tomorrow, but I'm hesitant to agree with the idea that it's "just fine."

The sad part of it all is that none of this was even necessary. America once had a solid economy which stuck to the basics. Apparently, that wasn't good enough for some of America's ruling class and other financial wizards who wanted to gamble away America's future to try to make really big money. Such policies also lead to federal fiscal irresponsibility, since it costs such an exorbitant amount to make the world safe for globalism and free trade.

We really lost it when we stopped manufacturing steel. If we stop making farm equipment we will possibly be at another countries mercy.

 

[Stevicus]

Only among a loopy few.
Never among Republicans in general.
Remember that she was an atheist, yet so many Pubs are knuckle walking fundies.

Yeah, although most of them love money more than they love God, so their religion doesn't mean much.

She didn't seem to get along well with others.

Maybe she was a misanthrope who hated everybody.

I just started typing into my browser....
"ayn rand hated"
and it immediately suggested....
"ayn rand hated libertarians"
Even google knows this.

Well, you're right. I tried it and got the same thing. Although it also had "ayn rand hated communists." It's pretty much a given that she'd hate communists. But libertarians? I never heard that before.

She probably hated raindrops on roses and whiskers on kittens.