A question of faith and literal interpretations of the bible

[ScottySatan]

I asked about this before, and I think I must not have spelled things out right. I got a lot of people saying more or less "the bible is not to be taken literally".

Sure, sure, but my question is: how do you decide which parts of the bible are historical facts and which ones are not? I mean, if you're a christian, you probably take at least some part of the bible literally: That jesus was crucified, that the jews were in egypt, that paul wrote a letter to the Galatians. christians don't go around denying that these things really happened they way they sometimes do the 6 day creation, does that make sense?

I'm trying to learn something about how faith works. I wonder what happens if you sit down with a list of all of the events described in the bible, including the relatively mundane, and decide which ones you do believe and which ones you don't. Some of these events I imagine are going to be very tricky. Some events might be a grey area. I wonder if you are able to draw a fuzzy line which can act as a rough threshold about what you believe and what you don't. Most importantly, I wonder where the basis for your decision came from. Did your decision come from upbringing? Was it a product of your own thoughts? Was it the holy spirit acting within you?

 

[Dunemeister]

ScottySatan:

Your post is fairly typical of wondering "outsiders" to the Christian faith. But you'd be surprised how many "insiders" have the same question. The question is a reflection of the rather poor literacy extant in North America (for which you cannot be faulted). A couple specific points will help bring this out.

1) Acknowledging that not everything in the bible is to be taken literally does not mean that you "decide which ones you do believe and which ones you don't." I don't take everything in the bible literally, but I believe all of it.

2) It's a matter of genre. I handle poetry differently to a scientific journal. I handle a biography different to a phone book. I handle a recipe different to an epic myth. Each genre of writing provides clues as to how it is to be interpreted. Does the phone book tell me the truth about a city? Sort of, but it's a truncated sort of truth, and people would look at me funny if I told them I consulted the phone book to better understand Cleveland.

Getting specific to scripture, the question becomes, What clues does this text provide as to how it is intended to be read? Genesis, for instance, gives every indication that it is a poetic hymn, probably the product of ancient Hebrew liturgy. It is rhythmic, resounds with references to other ancient poetic figures (the watery chaos, serpent, etc.). Yet it is polemic, clearly a response to ancient Babylonian creation myths and intended to emphasize monotheism (among other things). That is, this ancient poetic myth tells truths, all right, but precious few historical ones.

Turning to the gospels, we see something different. Here, there are all kinds of references to actual people and places. They are obviously intended to tell us what took place. However, they are not written in a style familiar to us, such as newspaper reports, and so they lack the objectivity we have come to expect and the absence of which we treat with scepticism. If we could just stop reading the gospels (and the creation accounts) as though they were newspaper reports, we'd be better able to have intelligent conversations.

By the way, to all who know me, I'm back. Sort of. I'll poke in very occasionally.

 

[SCHIZO]

I asked about this before, and I think I must not have spelled things out right. I got a lot of people saying more or less "the bible is not to be taken literally".

Sure, sure, but my question is: how do you decide which parts of the bible are historical facts and which ones are not? I mean, if you're a christian, you probably take at least some part of the bible literally: That jesus was crucified, that the jews were in egypt, that paul wrote a letter to the Galatians. christians don't go around denying that these things really happened they way they sometimes do the 6 day creation, does that make sense?

I'm trying to learn something about how faith works. I wonder what happens if you sit down with a list of all of the events described in the bible, including the relatively mundane, and decide which ones you do believe and which ones you don't. Some of these events I imagine are going to be very tricky. Some events might be a grey area. I wonder if you are able to draw a fuzzy line which can act as a rough threshold about what you believe and what you don't. Most importantly, I wonder where the basis for your decision came from. Did your decision come from upbringing? Was it a product of your own thoughts? Was it the holy spirit acting within you?

What about which parts of the bible are telling the truth? You have to use wisdom to know the difference. For example; the bible teaches that we must become circumcised in order to keep the covenant with God. Wisdom shows that if circumcision was necessary then we would be born circumcised from our mother's wombs.

To tell which is historical fact and which are not takes wisdom also. For example; the bible claims that some men almost live a thousand years in genesis. It is wise to asume that men barely reach a hundred these days then it is wise to asume that they in fact did not live 900 and something odd years.

Take what you know about your experience (the possibilities) and measure them with what is seemingly impossible with the bible. That is how you determine the fact from fiction. The truth is not supposed to convey impossibility to people who have no experience with it. I'm not saying that the miraculous does not exist, however, if it is not within the experience of an individual then it has no validity.

 

[Green Kepi]

I understand that the Bibles we have are not the original writings; however, this is the way I look at it as a Christian. When I face Jesus on His Judgment Seat, I expect to be able to say…I did the best I could with what You handed down to me thru the myriad of different versions You allowed to be filtered down to us.

He may say back to me…that is why I allowed it…to see if you were serious about “figuring” out my Words to you about what I wanted you to do. “No…you didn’t have the original, but I wanted to see what you did with what you had…I knew your heart…the ‘exact’ words from me didn’t matter…

For me, the Bible has been confirmed countless times by archaeology and other sciences. To me it possesses divine insight into the nature of the universe and has made correct predictions about distant future events with perfect accuracy.

In Romans 1:18–21 the Scriptures teach that God has revealed Himself to everyone. God has “hardwired” knowledge of Himself into every human being, such that we all have inescapable knowledge of God. That’s why people rebel against God so much—they “suppress the truth in unrighteousness” (Romans 1:18).

People go to great lengths to convince themselves and others that they do not know what, in fact, they must know. They are denying the existence of a God who is rightly angry at them for their rebellion against Him. An atheist spends A LOT of time…thinking about God…you ever noticed that?

 

[gospelsaves]

I take the bible to be 100% literal. I mean for me (and just my opinion) I think you have to believe all of it or none of it. That's just what I think. Because if you only believe some of it your faith can fall apart. I mean if one part isn't true then you will be thinking "what else could be untrue?".

The bible says "thy word is truth".

For me every question I've had of like "what can that mean?" comes after I've prayed about it and then ask God to show me what this means and then study. If I have a question of "I don't understand what this mean"...I go to God and say "God you are truth, and your word is truth so show me what this means"...even though I don't understand something I know God wants to show me. And every question I've had thus far I think I've gotten an answer to.

 

[Oak of Justice]

Scripture tells us who God reveals His word to so one needs to become that kind of individual and that is how to know what is literal or metaphoric. Here are some verses that I have found to be very helpful in that regard.


Psalms;

11:7 For the Lord is righteous; he loves righteous works; the upright shall behold his face.

25:12 When a man fears the Lord, He will teach him the way he should choose. 13 He will abide in prosperity, and his descendants shall inherit the land. 14 The friendship of the Lord is with those who fear him, and he makes his covenant known to them.

37:3Trust in the Lord, and do good; so you will live in the land, and enjoy security. Take delight in the Lord, and he will give you the desires of your heart. 5 Commit your way to the Lord; trust in him, and he will act. 6 He will make justice dawn for you like the light; bright as the noon day will be your vindication.

37:34 Wait for the Lord, and keep to his way, and he will exalt you to inherit the land;

Those who offer praise as a sacrifice glorify me and to those who go the right way I will show the salvation of God."

145:17 The Lord is just in all his ways, and holy in all his works. 18 The Lord is near to all who call on him, to all who call on him in truth.

Proverbs;

My son, if you receive my words and treasure my commands,
Turning your ear to wisdom, inclining your heart to understanding;
Yes, if you call to intelligence, and to understanding raise your voice;
If you seek her like silver, and like hidden treasures search her out:
Then you will understand the fear of the Lord; the knowledge of God you will find;
For the Lord gives wisdom, from his mouth come knowledge and understanding;
He has counsel in store for the upright, he is the shield of those who walk honestly.

BK of JN

My sheep hear my voice; I know them, and they follow me.
I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish.

Truly I say to you, whoever believes in me will do the works that I do, and will do greater ones than these, because I am going to the Father. And whatever you ask in my name, I will do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
If you ask anything of me in my name, I will do it.

If you continue in my words, you are truly be my disciples,
then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.

Unless I wash you, you will have no part of my inheritance.
I have given you an example what I have done that‘s what you must do.

Whoever has my commandments and keeps them is the one who loves me. And whoever loves me will be loved by my Father, I too will love him and reveal myself to him."
Whoever loves me will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our dwelling with him.

My teaching is not my own it comes from the one who sent me.I came down from heaven to do His will not my own.
Whoever chooses to do his will shall know about this teaching namely, whether it comes from God or whether I‘m speaking on my own.
Whoever speaks on his own seeks his own glory, but whoever seeks the glory of the one who sent him is truthful, and there is no dishonesty in his heart.

 

[Pegg]

I asked about this before, and I think I must not have spelled things out right. I got a lot of people saying more or less "the bible is not to be taken literally".

Sure, sure, but my question is: how do you decide which parts of the bible are historical facts and which ones are not? I mean, if you're a christian, you probably take at least some part of the bible literally: That jesus was crucified, that the jews were in egypt, that paul wrote a letter to the Galatians. christians don't go around denying that these things really happened they way they sometimes do the 6 day creation, does that make sense?

I'm trying to learn something about how faith works. I wonder what happens if you sit down with a list of all of the events described in the bible, including the relatively mundane, and decide which ones you do believe and which ones you don't. Some of these events I imagine are going to be very tricky. Some events might be a grey area. I wonder if you are able to draw a fuzzy line which can act as a rough threshold about what you believe and what you don't. Most importantly, I wonder where the basis for your decision came from. Did your decision come from upbringing? Was it a product of your own thoughts? Was it the holy spirit acting within you?

usually the way an account is written tells you if it is a literal account or not. often if an account was a historical account, other writers will mention it as a real account so you can be sure it is being viewed as a real historical account. For example, Jesus speaks of the Adam and Eve account when he spoke about the only acceptable means of divorce...it shows he viewed the account in genesis as a literal historical event which sets the right standard for marriage.

you can look at every book of the bible and consider it to be an historical account... but not necessarily every episode written in it should be taken literally. This is because sometimes a prophet will be writing some true events (historical events) but he may include a passage of judgment against someone and that judgment is described metaphorically. Sometimes the judgment is described as a story or allegory.

this is why you need to look at each piece of writing on its own merit and study the context.

There are many storys i believe are true historical events...noahs flood, giants in the earth, the exodus from egypt, the 10 commandments written by God on a stone tablet, battles of Isreal with other nations, the walls of jericho falling down,

to me its all historical... but some of the descriptions of things are only metaphors for example the wild beasts who stand up on the earth in the book of Daniel are obviously not literal....the book itself later identifies who the beasts are and what they represent when it says they are the ruling kingdoms of the medes and persians, the greeks and the romans.