A Russian Jehovah’s Witness Vows to Keep Worshipping Despite Crackdown

[danieldemol]

'Every day at 6 a.m., former Russian army officer Yevgeny sits bolt upright in bed, remembering security officers in black balaclavas storming his apartment during an early morning raid.

His was one of 16 Moscow households targeted by the authorities earlier this year for being Jehovah’s Witnesses, a Christian denomination outlawed in Russia since 2017, when the Supreme Court labeled it an extremist organization...

...
The law on extremism in Russia has evolved over the past few years to target those the state views as threats.

“Russia changed the law in such a way that it means when some experts prove that a certain statement is, in their opinion, extremist and the court agrees with this, then criminal responsibility ensues,” Sivulsky said.

That has made it possible for a believer who considers their religion to be the only true one to be designated an extremist.'

Source: A Russian Jehovah’s Witness Vows to Keep Worshipping Despite Crackdown - The Moscow Times

I thought Russian Orthodox considered their religion to be the only true religion, yet you dont hear of them being rounded up in Russia these days.

 

[loverofhumanity]

'Every day at 6 a.m., former Russian army officer Yevgeny sits bolt upright in bed, remembering security officers in black balaclavas storming his apartment during an early morning raid.

His was one of 16 Moscow households targeted by the authorities earlier this year for being Jehovah’s Witnesses, a Christian denomination outlawed in Russia since 2017, when the Supreme Court labeled it an extremist organization...

...
The law on extremism in Russia has evolved over the past few years to target those the state views as threats.

“Russia changed the law in such a way that it means when some experts prove that a certain statement is, in their opinion, extremist and the court agrees with this, then criminal responsibility ensues,” Sivulsky said.

That has made it possible for a believer who considers their religion to be the only true one to be designated an extremist.'

Source: A Russian Jehovah’s Witness Vows to Keep Worshipping Despite Crackdown - The Moscow Times

I thought Russian Orthodox considered their religion to be the only true religion, yet you dont hear of them being rounded up in Russia these days.

Hi Daniel how are you?

It’s likely favouritism or prejudice towards their own beliefs and discrimination against anyone they don’t control. With control comes power and $$$ so they probably want to control others religions as well and if they can’t then ban them hopefully by doing that get their members to come over to’ the only legitimate church’. So outlawing another Faith might be about poaching members for themselves.

 

[danieldemol]

Hi Daniel how are you?

Going well, enjoying the long weekend.

I hope you and Aunty and family are happy and in good health.

 

[stvdv]

That has made it possible for a believer who considers their religion to be the only true one to be designated an extremist.'

That seems just to be true to me

I thought Russian Orthodox considered their religion to be the only true religion, yet you dont hear of them being rounded up in Russia these days.

Jesus did warn the people about seeing the speck in the eyes of others forgetting the beam in their own eyes

Note: I am not sure if Russian Orthodox(must be for a reason) considers their religion to be the only true religion; but if so, the speck/beam applies
Note: The first quote below does say that they value cultural traditions of its believers (makes it less 'one and only true religion' maybe)
Note: The second quote might mean 'one true religion'. Unless their belief is 'there is not one true religion' as the 'right belief', but still 'right belief'

It is made up of a number of self-governing Churches which are either 'autocephalous' (meaning having their own head) or 'autonomous' (meaning self-governing).

The Orthodox Churches are united in faith and by a common approach to theology, tradition, and worship. They draw on elements of Greek, Middle-Eastern, Russian and Slav culture.

Each Church has its own geographical (rather than a national) title that usually reflects the cultural traditions of its believers.

The word 'Orthodox' takes its meaning from the Greek words orthos ('right') and doxa ('belief'). Hence the word Orthodox means correct belief or right thinking.

 

[Vinayaka]

'Every day at 6 a.m., former Russian army officer Yevgeny sits bolt upright in bed, remembering security officers in black balaclavas storming his apartment during an early morning raid.

His was one of 16 Moscow households targeted by the authorities earlier this year for being Jehovah’s Witnesses, a Christian denomination outlawed in Russia since 2017, when the Supreme Court labeled it an extremist organization...

...
The law on extremism in Russia has evolved over the past few years to target those the state views as threats.

“Russia changed the law in such a way that it means when some experts prove that a certain statement is, in their opinion, extremist and the court agrees with this, then criminal responsibility ensues,” Sivulsky said.

That has made it possible for a believer who considers their religion to be the only true one to be designated an extremist.'

Source: A Russian Jehovah’s Witness Vows to Keep Worshipping Despite Crackdown - The Moscow Times

I thought Russian Orthodox considered their religion to be the only true religion, yet you dont hear of them being rounded up in Russia these days.

I did some research, and one site claimed that there were over 22 000 officially recognised religious organisations in Russia. Three notable ones that weren't approved were the Salvation Army, Jehovah's Witnesses, and the Church of Scientology. As I always know there are two sides to every story, I would like to hear the rationale for banning these three groups. Russia is one massive country, after all. A lot of folks seem to have the misconception that the Russian Orthodox church is the only thing allowed.

 

[Vinayaka]

Here's the ISKCON map for Russia.

Russia – ISKCON Centres

 

[ChristineM]

I thought Russian Orthodox considered their religion to be the only true religion,

There are many reliions in Russia. Parts predominantly Islam, with Catholicism, Protestantism, Judaism, Buddhism, even Shamanism quite widespread. On top of versions of Orthodox religion.

Freedom of religion is a guaranteed right under the Russian Constitution.

For a law to be passed proclaiming a religion to be a threat to the state there must be some hidden story behind it.

 

[Vee]

'Every day at 6 a.m., former Russian army officer Yevgeny sits bolt upright in bed, remembering security officers in black balaclavas storming his apartment during an early morning raid.

His was one of 16 Moscow households targeted by the authorities earlier this year for being Jehovah’s Witnesses, a Christian denomination outlawed in Russia since 2017, when the Supreme Court labeled it an extremist organization...

...
The law on extremism in Russia has evolved over the past few years to target those the state views as threats.

“Russia changed the law in such a way that it means when some experts prove that a certain statement is, in their opinion, extremist and the court agrees with this, then criminal responsibility ensues,” Sivulsky said.

That has made it possible for a believer who considers their religion to be the only true one to be designated an extremist.'

Source: A Russian Jehovah’s Witness Vows to Keep Worshipping Despite Crackdown - The Moscow Times

I thought Russian Orthodox considered their religion to be the only true religion, yet you dont hear of them being rounded up in Russia these days.

Yes, it's been pretty hard for JWs in Russia for the last few years. They've persecuted us like we represent some kind of threat to their system. We see it as a sign of the times and the fulfillment of prophecy, but it's hard to know that this is happening to people who've never been a threat or cause harm to anyone. Considering a group that doesn't use weapons or violence of any kind extremist... how is that for irony?

 

[nPeace]

'Every day at 6 a.m., former Russian army officer Yevgeny sits bolt upright in bed, remembering security officers in black balaclavas storming his apartment during an early morning raid.

His was one of 16 Moscow households targeted by the authorities earlier this year for being Jehovah’s Witnesses, a Christian denomination outlawed in Russia since 2017, when the Supreme Court labeled it an extremist organization...

...
The law on extremism in Russia has evolved over the past few years to target those the state views as threats.

“Russia changed the law in such a way that it means when some experts prove that a certain statement is, in their opinion, extremist and the court agrees with this, then criminal responsibility ensues,” Sivulsky said.

That has made it possible for a believer who considers their religion to be the only true one to be designated an extremist.'

Source: A Russian Jehovah’s Witness Vows to Keep Worshipping Despite Crackdown - The Moscow Times

I thought Russian Orthodox considered their religion to be the only true religion, yet you dont hear of them being rounded up in Russia these days.

(Revelation 17:1, 2) 1 One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and said to me: “Come, I will show you the judgment on the great prostitute who sits on many waters, 2 with whom the kings of the earth committed sexual immorality, and earth’s inhabitants were made drunk with the wine of her sexual immorality.”
9 “This calls for a mind that has wisdom: The seven heads mean seven mountains, where the woman sits on top. 10 And there are seven kings: Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet arrived; but when he does arrive, he must remain a short while. 11 And the wild beast that was but is not, it is also an eighth king, but it springs from the seven, and it goes off into destruction. 12 “The ten horns that you saw mean ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but they do receive authority as kings for one hour with the wild beast. 13 These have one thought, so they give their power and authority to the wild beast.

14 These will battle with the Lamb, but because he is Lord of lords and King of kings, the Lamb will conquer them. Also, those with him who are called and chosen and faithful will do so.”

It's only a repeat of history

Spoiler: History

Luke 23:10-13, 24 - 10 However, the chief priests and the scribes kept standing up and vehemently accusing him. 11 Then Herod together with his soldiers treated him with contempt. . .
12 Herod and Pilate became friends with each other on that very day, for before that they had been at enmity with each other. 13 Pilate then called together the chief priests, the rulers, and the people 14 and said to them: “You brought this man to me as one inciting the people to revolt.. . .
24 So Pilate made the decision that their demand be met.

Matthew 26:59 - Now the chief priests and the entire Sanhedrin were looking for false testimony against Jesus in order to put him to death.

Matthew 27:12, 13 - 12 But while he was being accused by the chief priests and elders, he made no answer. 13 Then Pilate said to him: “Do you not hear how many things they are testifying against you?”

Mark 11:18 - And the chief priests and the scribes heard it, and they began to seek how to kill him; for they were in fear of him, because all the crowd was astounded at his teaching.

Mark 14:1 - And the chief priests and the scribes were looking for a way to seize him by cunning and kill him. . .

However one on a grander scale, leading to the finale.
Psalms 2:2-6

For the moment it looks like she's in control.

It's only a matter of time.

 

[Estro Felino]

That's a courageous stance.
Religions and State can sign an agreement fixing rules of mutual respect. I still don't understand this drastic decision of the Russian Federation

 

[nPeace]

That's a courageous stance.
Religions and State can sign agreement fixing rules of mutual respect. I still don't understand this drastic decision of the Russian Federation

I think understanding the history of religion, and what's involved, can make it easier, but it would take a bit of explaining.
Some people doubt the Bible, so this is a factor that can add to one not seeing the full picture.
However, suppose we assume that Babylon the Great really represents the world empire of false religion.
Then, we trace the history of religion, and all of its acts.
Would we not agree with John's description... "the mother of the prostitutes and of the disgusting things of the earth... the woman was drunk with the blood of the holy ones and with the blood of the witnesses of Jesus. Revelation 17:5, 6
What we read in Chapter 18, fits religion to a Tee.

 

[ChristineM]

I think understanding the history of religion, and what's involved, can make it easier, but it would take a bit of explaining.
Some people doubt the Bible, so this is a factor that can add to one not seeing the full picture.
However, suppose we assume that Babylon the Great really represents the world empire of false religion.
Then, we trace the history of religion, and all of its acts.
Would we not agree with John's description... "the mother of the prostitutes and of the disgusting things of the earth... the woman was drunk with the blood of the holy ones and with the blood of the witnesses of Jesus. Revelation 17:5, 6
What we read in Chapter 18, fits religion to a Tee.

Yet there are many christian religions in Russia, the predominant religion is orthodox Christian so what could that possibly have to do with the HW situation in Russia?

 

[danieldemol]

I did some research, and one site claimed that there were over 22 000 officially recognised religious organisations in Russia. Three notable ones that weren't approved were the Salvation Army, Jehovah's Witnesses, and the Church of Scientology. As I always know there are two sides to every story, I would like to hear the rationale for banning these three groups. Russia is one massive country, after all. A lot of folks seem to have the misconception that the Russian Orthodox church is the only thing allowed.

Well I don't know much about scientology, but we have salvation army folk in Australia, and they seem relatively harmless to me.

Perhaps the Russian Orthodox Church is just banning religions that are too small for it to understand.

As far as the rationale goes unless you can find an alternative story to the one presented in the article the reason given seems to be that they consider themselves the only true religion.

Sure that's arrogant and a bad idea, but criminalising ideas just interferes with the free competition of ideas, which seems to me to be a central value in countries like Australia albeit not so much in countries like Russia.

 

[danieldemol]

For a law to be passed proclaiming a religion to be a threat to the state there must be some hidden story behind it.

Why does the Russian government have to hide the true story, and if they are not hiding it why is it hidden?

 

[ChristineM]

Why does the Russian government have to hide the true story, and if they are not hiding it why is it hidden?

Are they hiding it? There are several unbiased articles outlining the stated and assumed reasons. To westerners they seem trivial but consider a strong american influence (as is enjoyed by JWs) in russia will be seen as a red flag to a paranoid dictator.

 

[Vinayaka]

Well I don't know much about scientology, but we have salvation army folk in Australia, and they seem relatively harmless to me.

Perhaps the Russian Orthodox Church is just banning religions that are too small for it to understand.

As far as the rationale goes unless you can find an alternative story to the one presented in the article the reason given seems to be that they consider themselves the only true religion.

Sure that's arrogant and a bad idea, but criminalising ideas just interferes with the free competition of ideas, which seems to me to be a central value in countries like Australia albeit not so much in countries like Russia.

I'm guessing that excessive annoying proselytizing, exclusivity, and being critical of all other faiths would all be a consideration. Non-violence, failure to stand for the national anthem, failure to volunteer for the army might also be factors. The Hutterites, Doukabhors, and other pacifist faiths fled Russia for those reasons a couple of centuries ago. It's also possible that one or two individuals had individual run-ins, and individuals with power are using it, like a grudge. Street proselytising might be illegal for anyone, and since the JWs insist it doesn't apply to them, that might be it.

Fact is I don't know, but I do know there are ALWAYS two sides to every story. As far as I know, there are no Russian folks on this forum that could give us the other side. With 22 000 registered organisations not being banned, that says something, no?

Editted ... it's to do with perceived terrorism, and they're accused of inciting religious hatred, by the extreme exclusivity.

 

[danieldemol]

Are they hiding it? There are several unbiased articles outlining the stated and assumed reasons. To westerners they seem trivial but consider a strong american influence (as is enjoyed by JWs) in russia will be seen as a red flag to a paranoid dictator.

Are you suggesting that racist paranoia of influence from the US is the real reason they are banned?

That hardly seems like a just reason for banning them.

Anyhow you referred to unbiased articles, do you have a link to any english examples?

 

[Vinayaka]

I looked up the reasons for the Salvation Army being banned, as that was the one that seemed the most least illogical. Turned out that that ban has been lifted, (in 2002) and it was originally because of the term 'Army' used in the name. I didn't google a ton of it, and that may have changed, but that's what I found.

 

[danieldemol]

Editted ... it's to do with perceived terrorism, and they're accused of inciting religious hatred, by the extreme exclusivity.

Why do they perceive terrorism from the organisation as a whole?

And why wouldn't extreme exclusivity laws apply to larger groups that are accepted in Russia?

No you are not judged by the groups you reasonably allow, you are judged by the groups you unjustly ban.

If there was injustice here it should be corrected no matter how many other groups don't face injustice.

 

[Vinayaka]

Why do they perceive terrorism from the organisation as a whole?

And why wouldn't extreme exclusivity laws apply to larger groups that are accepted in Russia?

No you are not judged by the groups you reasonably allow, you are judged by the groups you unjustly ban.

If there was injustice here it should be corrected no matter how many other groups don't face injustice.

Oh I agree with you. I'm only looking for possible reasons not told of in western media, as I like to keep an open mind on such things. In matters of religious freedoms world wide, I don't think it's been getting better in the last 10 years or so. Islamic countries do very poorly compared to Russia.


Edited to add: Countries Where Jehovah's Witnesses' Activities Are Banned