A schoolgirl punished for a pro-Palestinian T-shirt in France!!

[sonofskeptish]

Pretty much.

I think a lot of people are afraid to confront Islam. If that is true, the west is lost.

That's how the Nazi's seized power wasn't it... rational people afraid to speak out against them?

 

[darkendless]

That's how the Nazi's seized power wasn't it... rational people afraid to speak out against them?

I don't know, i think so.

I also don't know why western countries are afraid of confronting Islam inside their own borders. Australia is pretty bad at it, 4000 people protested against the construction of an Islamic school in my area but the government approved it anyway.

 

[kai]

That's from the OP, but it isn't near as descript as this article. That's the one I was getting my information from.

Something was said that "shocked" and "disgusted" the girl to the point of feeling she had to wear the shirt in the first place. The teacher also had a reaction to the shirt. If he wasn't biased in the first place then perhaps not only would his comments not be shocking, but he wouldn't have bothered to react to the shirt. Also, if there wasn't some question about what had transpired with the teacher on the part of the school then they wouldn't be reconsidering the suspension...which, according to this article...they are.

pity i cant read that.

 

[Draka]

pity i cant read that.

If you really want to get an idea of what is said in the article you can do what I've done before with articles in languages I don't know. Copy and paste them, or the website address, into a translator like Yahoo's Babel Fish. The grammar won't be near correct so you sometimes have to just figure out what is being said, but it's better than glancing at an article, stating you can't read it, and doubting someone who tries to tell you what's in it.

 

[kai]

If you really want to get an idea of what is said in the article you can do what I've done before with articles in languages I don't know. Copy and paste them, or the website address, into a translator like Yahoo's Babel Fish. The grammar won't be near correct so you sometimes have to just figure out what is being said, but it's better than glancing at an article, stating you can't read it, and doubting someone who tries to tell you what's in it.

Oh don't get me wrong i am not doubting you at all, just saying "pity i cant read it."

 

[Panda]

More reason why schools should have school uniforms.

 

[sonofskeptish]

I don't know, i think so.

I also don't know why western countries are afraid of confronting Islam inside their own borders. Australia is pretty bad at it, 4000 people protested against the construction of an Islamic school in my area but the government approved it anyway.

IMO, it's a combination of fear and not realizing what's happening.

I spend a lot of time is Europe where, as an outsider, it's obvious how extremist Islam is using the rights and freedoms established by western societies (e.g. freedom of speech, freedom of religion, etc.) to undermine these same societies they've infiltrated, with the intention to strip these same rights away from women and infidels, and dominate the world with their form of Islam.

The fear tactics of murdering film producers, issuing Fatwa’s on authors, death threats forcing politicians into hiding, killing and rioting over cartoons, suicide bombings, terror attacks involving planes, trains and buses, etc. are working. All this while moderate Muslims appear to be sitting back and saying... "That's not Islam... Islam is Peaceful".

To better understand this bizarre situation, I've just started the book "The Great Theft" by Dr. Khaled Abou El Fadl (an Islamic scholar). I his book, I think he suggests Islam is currently going through a "reformation" with 2 competing worldviews within Islam... one moderate, one not.

Hopefully it also contains some insights on how moderate Muslims might "win" their fight against their extremist counterparts, because if they don't, this would almost certainly set the stage for the ultimate, no-holds-barred battle of civilizations.

Religion, what a wonderful thing.

(To the OP, sorry for going a little of topic)

 

[Amill]

I don't see how this is any different from wearing a "Got Jesus" t shirt. There's nothing wrong with expressing your opinions or beliefs. If the shirt caused disruption and problems then it should become an issue, but until then, what's the big deal? If the shirt really would become a hassle, we can't just prohibit that particular shirt or idea, can we? Wouldn't we logically have to prohibit any t shirt that could be found offensive to anyone?

In my opinion, if the school doesn't want kids to express their opinions through their clothing, they need to have uniforms.

 

[Copernicus]

In my opinion, if the school doesn't want kids to express their opinions through their clothing, they need to have uniforms.

I don't think that this is a simple question over whether a student is allowed to express an opinion. There are many ways to express opinions, and people--especially children and teenagers--do not always use good judgment in the means that they choose. Schools have an obligation to provide an atmosphere in which young people from diverse backgrounds can discuss ideas without feeling threatened. So teachers and school administrators cannot simply ignore clothing and behavior that is designed to provoke negative reactions from others. Ideally, wearing shirts with provocative slogans ought not to provoke or intimidate others, but we do not live in an ideal world. Dress codes are designed to help with the mission that the school has--to provide everyone with a safe, non-threatening environment in which to learn.

 

[Darkness]

If you want my honest opinion, I would say the teacher should have given her a chance to state her position, since it turns out her "protest" was relevant to the previous day's discussion. The fact that she left the room in tears is interesting and very telling. I rather suspect that she had her "facts" stood on their heads and couldn't handle the implications, nor could she respond adequately to someone challenging her position. Pity no one filmed the exchange, that I am aware of, so that we could see what actually took place.

Or because it was a young girl versus a history teacher, he was able to use his broad knowledge to manipulate the so-called "facts" to his advantage.

 

[JMorris]

More reason why schools should have school uniforms.

agreed

 

[Kathryn]

IMO, it's a combination of fear and not realizing what's happening.

I spend a lot of time is Europe where, as an outsider, it's obvious how extremist Islam is using the rights and freedoms established by western societies (e.g. freedom of speech, freedom of religion, etc.) to undermine these same societies they've infiltrated, with the intention to strip these same rights away from women and infidels, and dominate the world with their form of Islam.

The fear tactics of murdering film producers, issuing Fatwa’s on authors, death threats forcing politicians into hiding, killing and rioting over cartoons, suicide bombings, terror attacks involving planes, trains and buses, etc. are working. All this while moderate Muslims appear to be sitting back and saying... "That's not Islam... Islam is Peaceful".

To better understand this bizarre situation, I've just started the book "The Great Theft" by Dr. Khaled Abou El Fadl (an Islamic scholar). I his book, I think he suggests Islam is currently going through a "reformation" with 2 competing worldviews within Islam... one moderate, one not.

Hopefully it also contains some insights on how moderate Muslims might "win" their fight against their extremist counterparts, because if they don't, this would almost certainly set the stage for the ultimate, no-holds-barred battle of civilizations.

Religion, what a wonderful thing.

(To the OP, sorry for going a little of topic)

I don't think you're off topic at all - I noticed the same thing while living in Europe and then going back on vacations. Every time I go back the situation is worse. It's very striking how quickly things are deteriorating there. Such a pity.

There goes the neighborhood.

Anyway - I'll check out that book. Have you read "America Alone" and "While Europe Slept"? Both excellent books on the topic.

 

[Sajdah]

I don't think you're off topic at all -.

Because the girl is a radical Muslim?! :sarcastic

 

[Kathryn]

No, because at the bottom of the issue is the clash between Islamic culture and traditional European culture.

 

[kai]

No, because at the bottom of the issue is the clash between Islamic culture and traditional European culture.

whats "Islamic " culture and whats "traditional European " culture. i thought the issue was a political one about a T-shirt? and school dress codes.

 

[Sajdah]

.... Have you read "America Alone" and "While Europe Slept"? Both excellent books on the topic.

Good to know your sources which helped you to form such picture about Islam......

America Alone: The End of the World as We Know It (ISBN 0-89526-078-6) is a New York Times bestselling nonfiction book by Mark Steyn, published in 2006. It has been widely praised by conservative commentators, and recommended by George W. Bush.[1]

America Alone

I don't think the other book will be better!!!

 

[Kathryn]

Kai - no, the problems in Europe in regard to Islam go MUCH deeper than a t-shirt. There is a serious culture clash in the making.

 

[kai]

Kai - no, the problems in Europe in regard to Islam go MUCH deeper than a t-shirt. There is a serious culture clash in the making.

I agree there's a culture clash, i live here and i see it, but in my country its Bangla-deshi or Somali for example. I couldnt in all honesty call it "islamic" because there's too much cultural influence in the interpretation

 

[Kathryn]

Good to know your sources which helped you to form such picture about Islam......


America Alone

I don't think the other book will be better!!!

I formed most of my opinions on the issue of Islam in Europe by actually living in Europe for three years and traveling back there over the years. I've seen and lived the issues personally.

There is a serious problem with immigration policies/economics/terrorist cells/birth rates, etc. brewing throughout Europe and it's getting worse with each passing month. Every time I go back, I am shocked by how the problems are growing. There is an inevitable clash of values and cultures and the level of violence is continuing to rise.

 

[Kathryn]

I agree there's a culture clash, i live here and i see it, but in my country its Bangla-deshi or Somali for example. I couldnt in all honesty call it "islamic" because there's too much cultural influence in the interpretation

Not sure where you live but when I lived in Germany, the vast majority of immigrants and immigrant neighborhoods were Muslim.

After I moved, I went back for a visit three years later. My old neighborhood, which was in the very center of a mid size picturesque town in Bavaria, was completely Muslim.

Now, I have no problem with diversity in a town. The problem I have is this:

The previously neat and quiet neighborhood was littered and decrepit. Yes, in three years it was completely changed. Windows were broken out, trash (trash - in GERMANY?) was thrown about, and the whole atmosphere was oppressive and ominous. The people living there were withdrawn and somber. The window boxes full of flowers were gone, the grass was overgrown and full of weeds. It was really sad.

The area is now bringing down the property values of the surrounding neighborhoods also. Crime levels have drastically increased.

It's a shame.