A Spiritual Quagmire

[Glaurung]

My inner world is a world of conflicting beliefs. On the one hand, there is the desire to be a faithful Catholic holding fast to the sound doctrines of the apostolic faith. On the other hand, there is a growing willingness on my part to consider the possibility that the whole system of ‘sound doctrine’ is a sham. That modernity is causing the Catholic Church to buckle under the weight of its own claims. I should trust in the teaching authority of the Catholic Church. But a guarantee of truth becomes tenuous if that guarantor becomes more and more prone to shifting about in what it teaches. Even to the point of contradicting its own previous assertions.

But my doubts go beyond the credibility of the Catholic Church. My doubts also touch upon Scripture and Christianity itself. Late last year I began a project to read the entire Bible and I have not been able to continue beyond the Pentateuch. (I will finish what I started, eventually). And it may come across as a superficial complaint but the first five books of the Old Testament were a slog to get through. The Bible according to orthodox teaching is the inerrant word of the universe’s creator. But the Pentateuch at least reads less like a work of divine dictation and more like an entirely human compendium of the ritual obsessions of an iron age clerical class.

And yet, I still have no clear answer as to the veracity or falsity of Christianity. If I lean towards it being false then I have spent years of my life in fear of an empty threat. A threat of eternal fire which awaits all those who die in mortal sin. And if I lean towards it being true then I must somehow make peace with my doubts and trust that divine providence will eventually straighten out what is currently crooked both in the Church and in the world at large. Do I seek God out with yet more prayer or am I seeking that which simply is not there? Can I trust in the many accounts of miraculous occurrences or is it all a bunch of pious legends? A eucharistic miracle is hard evidence of transubstantiation. But can I trust the Church's claims that the recent occurrences of these supposed miracles have been verified by disinterested labs? Are any of the reports publicly available?

I am at a crossroads and I do not know which path to take. If God is real then perhaps He could grant me an unambiguous sign of that truth. But perhaps doubt is the point of His plan for me. I want God to approach me but I have not lived in such a way as to deserve it. Until I seek God unreservedly I will remain trapped in the spiritual quagmire in which I currently find myself. But again, if there is no truth to it then this spiritual quagmire is an illusion no amount of prayer and self denial will fix.

If the Catholic Church were not such a mess of scandal and shifting teaching then my confidence in Catholicism would not be so shaken. But it is an avoidance of my own failures to focus too much on the shenanigans of the institutional church. It is not my place to worry about the orthodoxy of the pope (that is for God to deal with) nor is it fruitful for me to concern myself with a secular world that seems to have become increasingly insane. (Again, divine providence is and always will be in control). For me, it is my job to seek the truth and my own sanctification and in this I admit I have so far been extremely negligent. I have been trying to have it both ways. One foot takes a step for God while another remains firmly planted in the world. And that does not work. I have to choose and if God is real then I want the grace to choose God.

 

[pearl]

But the Pentateuch at least reads less like a work of divine dictation and more like an entirely human compendium of the ritual obsessions of an iron age clerical class.

For me the true 'taste' of the Pentateuch is through Exodus. Even if one believes that Moses wrote the entire Pentateuch, he must relate it in terms and ways familiar to man in a time and culture. There are excellent scholarly works for guidance.

If the Catholic Church were not such a mess of scandal

The Church is not the hierarchy, it is the people of God, and yes, we are sinners, human and we mess up.
Aquinas
That the Church will be glorious, without spot or wrinkle is the final goal to which we are led
through the sufferings of Christ. This will only be true in our eternal home, not as the way thither,
for now we would deceive ourselves if we were to say we have no sin, as I John i:8 points out.

Until I seek God unreservedly I will remain trapped in the spiritual quagmire in which I currently find myself.

Ever think it is God who seeks you? Even the seemingly most perfect saints had doubts.

 

[stvdv]

One foot takes a step for God while another remains firmly planted in the world. And that does not work. I have to choose and if God is real then I want the grace to choose God.

(Again, divine providence is and always will be in control).

IF that is true (for me it is)
Is it God letting you use 1 foot for now?

Anyway, I wish you all the best on your Quest

 

[ChristineM]

Difficult situation, similar but by no means the same that i found myself in at age 14. I left the church, (CofE) not because of the teaching but because of the people who took those teachings and bent them to their own ends. When i left i was still very much Christian. As you have begun, i read the bible, as compiled, not selectively as our vicar gave us but every word. It was that act that drove me away from Christianity.

This is something I don't really regret though i would believe in your case leaving your faith may cause some trauma.

My suggestion, based on my experience, is, be sure of yourself before you complete your reading.

Best wishes whichever way you jump

 

[RestlessSoul]

I’m not a particularly orthodox (small o) or conventional Christian, but I would say that Christ’s message can be found in it’s entirety in The Gospels. So I would recommend starting there, if you’re looking to scripture for answers.

 

[Heyo]

My inner world is a world of conflicting beliefs. On the one hand, there is the desire to be a faithful Catholic holding fast to the sound doctrines of the apostolic faith. On the other hand, there is a growing willingness on my part to consider the possibility that the whole system of ‘sound doctrine’ is a sham. That modernity is causing the Catholic Church to buckle under the weight of its own claims. I should trust in the teaching authority of the Catholic Church. But a guarantee of truth becomes tenuous if that guarantor becomes more and more prone to shifting about in what it teaches. Even to the point of contradicting its own previous assertions.

But my doubts go beyond the credibility of the Catholic Church. My doubts also touch upon Scripture and Christianity itself. Late last year I began a project to read the entire Bible and I have not been able to continue beyond the Pentateuch. (I will finish what I started, eventually). And it may come across as a superficial complaint but the first five books of the Old Testament were a slog to get through. The Bible according to orthodox teaching is the inerrant word of the universe’s creator. But the Pentateuch at least reads less like a work of divine dictation and more like an entirely human compendium of the ritual obsessions of an iron age clerical class.

And yet, I still have no clear answer as to the veracity or falsity of Christianity. If I lean towards it being false then I have spent years of my life in fear of an empty threat. A threat of eternal fire which awaits all those who die in mortal sin. And if I lean towards it being true then I must somehow make peace with my doubts and trust that divine providence will eventually straighten out what is currently crooked both in the Church and in the world at large. Do I seek God out with yet more prayer or am I seeking that which simply is not there? Can I trust in the many accounts of miraculous occurrences or is it all a bunch of pious legends? A eucharistic miracle is hard evidence of transubstantiation. But can I trust the Church's claims that the recent occurrences of these supposed miracles have been verified by disinterested labs? Are any of the reports publicly available?

I am at a crossroads and I do not know which path to take. If God is real then perhaps He could grant me an unambiguous sign of that truth. But perhaps doubt is the point of His plan for me. I want God to approach me but I have not lived in such a way as to deserve it. Until I seek God unreservedly I will remain trapped in the spiritual quagmire in which I currently find myself. But again, if there is no truth to it then this spiritual quagmire is an illusion no amount of prayer and self denial will fix.

If the Catholic Church were not such a mess of scandal and shifting teaching then my confidence in Catholicism would not be so shaken. But it is an avoidance of my own failures to focus too much on the shenanigans of the institutional church. It is not my place to worry about the orthodoxy of the pope (that is for God to deal with) nor is it fruitful for me to concern myself with a secular world that seems to have become increasingly insane. (Again, divine providence is and always will be in control). For me, it is my job to seek the truth and my own sanctification and in this I admit I have so far been extremely negligent. I have been trying to have it both ways. One foot takes a step for God while another remains firmly planted in the world. And that does not work. I have to choose and if God is real then I want the grace to choose God.

Maybe I'm the least competent person to give advice as I never was in your position (the first time I heard from the Bible, at age 4 or 5, I thought that it sounded like another fairy tale; and that has never changed). But as an arm chair philosopher, I offer a general advice at finding the truth: begin with the question of how you can know what is true before you proceed to decide what is true.

 

[exchemist]

My inner world is a world of conflicting beliefs. On the one hand, there is the desire to be a faithful Catholic holding fast to the sound doctrines of the apostolic faith. On the other hand, there is a growing willingness on my part to consider the possibility that the whole system of ‘sound doctrine’ is a sham. That modernity is causing the Catholic Church to buckle under the weight of its own claims. I should trust in the teaching authority of the Catholic Church. But a guarantee of truth becomes tenuous if that guarantor becomes more and more prone to shifting about in what it teaches. Even to the point of contradicting its own previous assertions.

But my doubts go beyond the credibility of the Catholic Church. My doubts also touch upon Scripture and Christianity itself. Late last year I began a project to read the entire Bible and I have not been able to continue beyond the Pentateuch. (I will finish what I started, eventually). And it may come across as a superficial complaint but the first five books of the Old Testament were a slog to get through. The Bible according to orthodox teaching is the inerrant word of the universe’s creator. But the Pentateuch at least reads less like a work of divine dictation and more like an entirely human compendium of the ritual obsessions of an iron age clerical class.

And yet, I still have no clear answer as to the veracity or falsity of Christianity. If I lean towards it being false then I have spent years of my life in fear of an empty threat. A threat of eternal fire which awaits all those who die in mortal sin. And if I lean towards it being true then I must somehow make peace with my doubts and trust that divine providence will eventually straighten out what is currently crooked both in the Church and in the world at large. Do I seek God out with yet more prayer or am I seeking that which simply is not there? Can I trust in the many accounts of miraculous occurrences or is it all a bunch of pious legends? A eucharistic miracle is hard evidence of transubstantiation. But can I trust the Church's claims that the recent occurrences of these supposed miracles have been verified by disinterested labs? Are any of the reports publicly available?

I am at a crossroads and I do not know which path to take. If God is real then perhaps He could grant me an unambiguous sign of that truth. But perhaps doubt is the point of His plan for me. I want God to approach me but I have not lived in such a way as to deserve it. Until I seek God unreservedly I will remain trapped in the spiritual quagmire in which I currently find myself. But again, if there is no truth to it then this spiritual quagmire is an illusion no amount of prayer and self denial will fix.

If the Catholic Church were not such a mess of scandal and shifting teaching then my confidence in Catholicism would not be so shaken. But it is an avoidance of my own failures to focus too much on the shenanigans of the institutional church. It is not my place to worry about the orthodoxy of the pope (that is for God to deal with) nor is it fruitful for me to concern myself with a secular world that seems to have become increasingly insane. (Again, divine providence is and always will be in control). For me, it is my job to seek the truth and my own sanctification and in this I admit I have so far been extremely negligent. I have been trying to have it both ways. One foot takes a step for God while another remains firmly planted in the world. And that does not work. I have to choose and if God is real then I want the grace to choose God.

Regarding the bible, I think one has to regard it as a literary work, written by human beings at a particular period of history. I think most Catholic bible scholars would say that, in fact. As I understand it, it is the messages conveyed by this literature that we are meant to seek out and profit from. There is no requirement to take it all literally and indeed one can't, in view of its internal inconsistencies.

Likewise with church doctrine, it seems to me that that too, is formulated by human beings at various periods of history and thus is liable to evolve with the changing perspective of history. I don't see that acknowledging that needs to be terribly problematic. We all see "through a glass, darkly", but that doesn't mean there is nothing to see.

Even science tells us there are fundamental limits to what we can know. I find that immensely comforting, actually. It's OK not to have all the answers.

 

[pearl]

Regarding the bible, I think one has to regard it as a literary work

Yes, the Bible is a literary masterpiece.

 

[sun rise]

@Musing Bassist , you are asking very deep questions: Does God exist? Is God all loving and all merciful? Was Jesus real and who the Bible paints him as being? Is Christianity the way to God? Is the Catholic Church the way to being a real Christian? Does a real Christian necessarily have to take the Bible as inerrant? If the Bible is inerrant, how do I interpret various parts (literal or teaching story)? Do I even need to be concerned about parts that are genealogy, for example?

You might benefit from picking a single question to delve deeply into.