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"... a time to hate." Ecc 3:8
- Thread starter IF_u_knew
- Start date
IF_u_knew
Curious
Do you consider forgiveness a virtue?
IF_u_knew
Curious
I think there are too many cases where not fulfilling the time of Hate is even more destructive. Take the case of a child molester who is protected by society from being subjected to the victimized family's form of justice ... then, often it is why we are dealing with repeat offenders, no?
I find it interesting the order of "a time to kill" and then, "a time to heal."
Do you believe it actually possible to hate the sin and not the sinner? How can the two even be separated when the sin would not exist if not for the sinner?
Charity
Let's go racing boys !
I think "hate" is a normal emotion and reaction to something or someone who has inflicted an unusual amount of pain both emotionally and possibly physical pain.Is it wrong to hate? Why or why not?
Whether it is right or wrong to hate is up to one's own interpretation and understanding of what precipitated the emotion. If someone just molested a child, or killed a member of our family, I believe one of the first emotions along with anger, frustration, and much sorrow would certainly allow hate and possible vengence to cross our mind.....
I think that would probably be a normal reaction, but how long you leave it in your mind and act on it could lead one to take actions that would have great consequences later. Hate ends up hurting us in the long run.
Speaking from the Christian pov.....let those without sin cast the first stone when it comes to saying "your wrong to hate" Like I stated having the feeling or emotion is one thing, but dwelling on it and letting it eat away at you, maybe even ruin your own life, that would be when it becomes wrong.
I think in any crisis situation a person will feel many different emotions and you have to learn to deal and work through each one. I don't think feeling an emotion makes it wrong.
IF_u_knew
Curious
I knew that you and I would find ourselves agreeing at some point. And clearly, it only takes one willing to be real in their own experiences to know this is truth ... ty! Since it is a natural reaction, is it safe to then say that hate, in and of itself, is not only NOT evil .. but even it has a purpose to serve? Ecclesiastes 7:29 suggests such. Then, maybe it is our misunderstanding the purpose of it that we haven't used it wisely (speaking of humanity as a whole) ...
I know that when I find myself having such strong emotions of dislike toward another, especially if there is no apparent Reason for it at first, it forces me to step out of my own perspective to see if there is something I was missing in my own.
Then, hate is abolished via understanding. It seems until we can admit that Hate is a fact of life that we can't escape (well, not until death that is), we will only misuse it and cause damage upon damage to one another.
just wondering.
It's your life. As for me, I'm going to try not to get sucked into it.
IF_u_knew
Curious
It is my life .... and that is affects others is enough for me to get honest with myself about it. When I am honest with myself, then I understand others. All of us, we aren't as different from one another as we would like the other to believe, ya know.
Denying that "hate" is a natural part of Life is not the way to defeat the negative effects that are impacting the lives of many, is it?
If lack of knowledge is what destroys us, blatant denial only furthers it along .. then, am I wrong to want to gain perspective here?
Hate is a natural emotion that we all feel from time to time. To deny this is very emotionally and psychologically dangerous.
Certain paths require hate to be destroyed completely. For most people, however, this is impossible, so I feel it is foolish to try if unable. In my opinion, the majority of people need to learn how to channel and focus hate into a motivating energy that can be used productively.
Certain paths require hate to be destroyed completely. For most people, however, this is impossible, so I feel it is foolish to try if unable. In my opinion, the majority of people need to learn how to channel and focus hate into a motivating energy that can be used productively.
Is it wrong to hate? Why or why not?
As the scripture in Ecclesiastes you quoted shows, there is a time to hate. True love identifies Christ's followers. However, the Bible shows it is proper to hate in the sense of abhorring and avoiding certain practices and even people. Psalms 139:21,22 says "Do I not hate those who are intensely hating you, O Jehovah,
And do I not feel a loathing for those revolting against you? With a complete hatred I do hate them.They have become to me real enemies."
Further, Paul notes how love without hypocrisy is shown, stating: Abhor what is wicked, cling to what is good. (Romans 12:9) Abhor and cling are strong words. Abhor can be translated hate exceedingly. We must hate not merely the consequences of evil but also the evil itself. (Psalm 97:10)
Christian hate, like christian love, is always based on principle and never seeks to cause harm to what is hated. Unreasoning hatred is a cause of people slaughtering one another. Murders issue forth from the heart of an individual. (Matthew 15:19; Mark 7:21; compare Romans 1:28-32.) Therefore, anyone hating his brother would be a manslayer, a murderer. (1John 3:15). So while there is a time to hate, for it to be righteous hatred it must be based on righteous principles and reflect Jehovah's hatred for what is wicked.
Charity
Let's go racing boys !
Since it is a natural reaction, is it safe to then say that hate, in and of itself, is not only NOT evil .. but even it has a purpose to serve? Ecclesiastes 7:29 suggests such. Then, maybe it is our misunderstanding the purpose of it that we haven't used it wisely (speaking of humanity as a whole) ...
I know that when I find myself having such strong emotions of dislike toward another, especially if there is no apparent Reason for it at first, it forces me to step out of my own perspective to see if there is something I was missing in my own.
Then, hate is abolished via understanding. It seems until we can admit that Hate is a fact of life that we can't escape (well, not until death that is), we will only misuse it and cause damage upon damage to one another.
just wondering.
We certainly can't let go of something until we actually face it, work through it and then we can by the grace of God, let go of it.
Sometimes I think it takes a little longer than it should but eventually we can overcome it and move on.....
IF_u_knew
Curious
I don't disagree with this.
I think that the negative effects of hate are often all that ppl focus on, thus maybe missing that there is a time for hate. In that case, there must a way for hate to be appropriately fulfilled and what that fulfillment should be would depend on what triggered it in the first place. I have heard it said that if you understand something in only one way, then you really do not understand it at all ...
I do wonder though how much we multiply the negative effects when we protect those who enjoy committing evil acts to others from the victims' right to pursue absolute justice.
This somewhat goes into why I have not the issues with the Laws as they are set up in Torah ... for the People, they were weeding out those who would cause harm to one another w/out conscience .. meaning, the victims were the ones who suffer from the natural consequences rather than the ones who inflicted the harm.
Not that I am preaching the world should be set up this way, but I wonder ... would it really be worse if it were set up that way? So that victims could seek retribution from those who refuse to make restitution (and in more extreme cases such as murder, where restitution CAN'T be made)? Especially, is it so wrong that a family of victims whose loved one was unjustly murdered take the life of the murderer? Then, the evil is out of the world and their hate is brought to its fulfillment. It is not society that was wronged by these evil ppl and thus I wonder why it is that society has been given the right to protect them from the actual victims.
Someone told me that this is stupid given that taking a life for a life would not bring back the loved one ... but it certainly would eliminate not only the possibility of another life being unjustly taken, there is also the fact that WE THE INDIVIDUALS are paying for all these ppl to be housed, fed, etc etc.
Amos 5:14,15 "Seek good, and not evil, that ye may live: and so the LORD, the God of hosts, shall be with you, as ye have spoken. Hate the evil, and love the good, and establish judgment in the gate.. "
Hating the evil .... is that really so bad? And is it really seeking the good when most of the time what we are doing as society is protecting the evil (evil would not exist w/out evil doers after all, no?) as we look down upon the hate of those who have already been victimized?
Again, just thinking here ...
IF_u_knew
Curious
First, I guess I should note what I mean by "evil." I would think that drinking to get drunk is a sin .... but not evil. That *I* would consider it sin is only based on the natural consequences that one will pay in regards to their own health. I don't see this as a reason to hate another ... and even, I have learned my own self through experience why it is wrong for me to do such ... after all, it is a wasting of a Day given to me of God. I don't preach about it though ... this is one of those things that is a matter between God and that person. This is judgment that God has established from the beginning.
HOWEVER, evil (as I see it) is to inflict harm upon another that will result NOT in that person suffering the natural consequences, and rather victim is left to suffer the natural consequences of the sin against them.
Then, this is why I find such wisdom in the Laws of Moses given to the Jewish People. There is the chance to make restitution or one would be stoned. Either way, the hate of the victim would find resolution.
OF COURSE, in many of these cases now, we should be able to let go of the need to "stone" for lesser offenses. If someone (and they have), steals something from me, I can move on even if resolution is never made. In these cases, selfishness was acted on unfairly, but recovering from a "superficial" hit is not the same as recovering from ... well, the following:
But the unfair stealing of another's life and the stealing of the innocence of children, etc etc <--- this is pure evil that it seems to me would be dealt with better by ending their life. Stop the evil doer and you stop the evil, no?
So many believe that God will punish them after death and yet this is NOT AT ALL something that has been derived from the Tanach, and I can only figure that it is denial of reality that so many are living in to believe such a thing...
the judgment of God is cause and effect and there are those without conscience who escape the effects of the damage they cause whilst the victims and even the rest of us pay for it .. well, wouldn't it be only right (seeking the good) to allow the hate of the victims to be fulfilled for not only their own well being, but for the good of all of us?
*covers head*
John D
Spiritsurfer
I consider it a"must" if one is to survive in the world of today.
I believe that forgiveness heals the forgiver first and then it flows to the forgiven. You are freed from that chain of hatred that tied you to this other person.
It is not easy but it is necessary.
IF_u_knew
Curious
100% agreed with! :yes:
I think women tend to be able to do this better than men (no offense to the men and of course, there are always the exceptions in both regards).
Sometimes I think it takes a little longer than it should but eventually we can overcome it and move on.....
This is one of those things that I can say with certainty only as it applies to me .. never have I held onto something longer than I should. I have found that so long as it is in me, there is something more to be understood from it. We all can only guage for ourselves how long it takes until we understand something properly, no?
I heard something the other day that I thought made perfect sense. "If you understand something in only one way, then you don't really understand it at all." Would you agree or disagree?
IF_u_knew
Curious
I think in most cases that we may apply this, you are correct ... and in others, I have a difficult time to see what we might assume is forgiveness as anything other than denial. Then, it seems, there are times when it is more damaging than it is healing.
It is my life .... and that is affects others is enough for me to get honest with myself about it. When I am honest with myself, then I understand others. All of us, we aren't as different from one another as we would like the other to believe, ya know.
Denying that "hate" is a natural part of Life is not the way to defeat the negative effects that are impacting the lives of many, is it?
If lack of knowledge is what destroys us, blatant denial only furthers it along .. then, am I wrong to want to gain perspective here?
Hate may or may not be a natural part of life. That is, however, a separate issue from whether hatred is a desirable part of life. For instance, rape is a natural behavior of our species as is war and murder. That does not make them desirable, except perhaps to a moral idiot.
There are many ill effects of hatred. If one has never observed nor taken note of those ill-effects, that might say a lot about one's powers of observation, but it surely doesn't say much about hatred.
IF_u_knew
Curious
When it comes to merely ideas, yes .. I can agree with this. Still, that we feel the hatred in us serves a purpose, no? To make us examine why we might hate an idea? There are MANY times when such has happened to me .. then, sometimes I find that I am the one in the wrong leading me to have to adjust my own views, and in other cases, I have come to better understand why I might have had an aversion to the idea in the first place.
When we feel guilty for merely having the emotion of hate, then we miss out on so much understanding <---- that could be truth, right?
Now, what do you say about hating people. Evil can not exist without a "doer" ... right? then, is it wrong in some cases to actually hate an actual person who is evil? How could we find resolution to this? If hate is overcome by understanding .. aren't there some that we just have to admit that we can't understand? and how should they be dealt with?