A very disturbing connection

[Mercy Not Sacrifice]

Read at your own risk. It contains graphic descriptions and content which you may take very, very personally.

But if your mind is completely open, you're never going to look at this issue the same way again.

http://www.nospank.net/sexdngr.htm

 

[Buttercup]

Not sure why this is in religious debates but the article makes some good points and addresses the punishment/sexual angle I hadn't thought of before. Good thing I didn't spank my kids.

However, I think there are exaggerations cited by "experts" that cause me to question the sources, or at least leave me to wonder if they are quoted out of context.....

“Being beaten excites children sexually because it is an intense excitation of the erogenous zones of the skin of the buttocks and of the muscles below the skin...”
Otto Fenichel, M.D. The Psychoanalytic Theory of Neurosis (1945)

And:

“Spanking on the buttocks can produce definitely erotic sensations, including sexual orgasm, in some children.


I can't imagine all children are excited sexually during spanking and I was unaware that a "child" could orgasm, period.

 

[Comprehend]

Riiiight. Sorry, I don't buy it.

 

[Green Gaia]

I can't imagine all children are excited sexually during spanking and I was unaware that a "child" could orgasm, period.

I was very aware of it as a child, although I hadn't a clue at the time what it was or that it was normal to do. I was also aware of the erotic nature of spanking... which was, um, very confusing to say the least.

 

[PureX]

Riiiight. Sorry, I don't buy it.

Yeah. Cause you're so much smarter than all those experts.

 

[jamaesi]

I can't imagine all children are excited sexually during spanking and I was unaware that a "child" could orgasm, period.

Children masturbate in the womb and little girls, in particular, can orgasm.

 

[Buttercup]

I was very aware of it as a child, although I hadn't a clue at the time what it was or that it was normal to do. I was also aware of the erotic nature of spanking... which was, um, very confusing to say the least.

I'm not questioning the notion that "some" children could be excited sexually but, I greatly dislike exaggerations as implied by the expert. But, as I noted...the quotation could be taken out of context. I do think there is definitely some merit in the premise of spanking being sexual for some kids.

And I also understand your comment about it being erotic....but erotic is different than orgasm. I was unaware that a prepubescent child could orgasm. Do you know if that's true? I could imagine a child being somewhat aroused but not to the point of orgasm. Is this too randy of a subject for this section?

 

[evearael]

I can't imagine all children are excited sexually during spanking and I was unaware that a "child" could orgasm, period.

I orgasmed quite regularly from at least second grade on. I don't recall any sorts of... confusion from being spanked as a child, but I was only spanked twice. I was more humiliated than anything.

 

[Buttercup]

I orgasmed quite regularly from at least second grade on. I don't recall any sorts of... confusion from being spanked as a child, but I was only spanked twice. I was more humiliated than anything.

Well, it looks like from the responses so far in this thread that I freakin missed out as a kid! Not from the spanking but from...you know. Not fair!

 

[Green Gaia]

Do you know if that's true?

It's true.

 

[Bastet]

I'm not questioning the notion that "some" children could be excited sexually but, I greatly dislike exaggerations as implied by the expert. But, as I noted...the quotation could be taken out of context. I do think there is definitely some merit in the premise of spanking being sexual for some kids.

That second quote you posted distinctly said "can produce" and "some children".

I do agree that some parts of the article did seem like they were making blanket statements about all kids who are spanked (particularly the parts talking about sadomasochism), but anyone with an ounce of common sense can see it doesn't automatically apply to everybody.
If nothing else I can say that being spanked as a child was not an erotic experience for me, and it hasn't led me into any sadomasochistic behaviour as an adult. So there's one. Then again, my mother was far too scary to need to use spanking as discipline after a few years. All she had to use was my middle name. :areyoucra

And I also understand your comment about it being erotic....but erotic is different than orgasm. I was unaware that a prepubescent child could orgasm. Do you know if that's true? I could imagine a child being somewhat aroused but not to the point of orgasm. Is this too randy of a subject for this section?

Sure, erotic is different to orgasm - but it's still being turned on by something that is being used as punishment. That's confusing for the kid, if nothing else.

And I'll throw my hand up with the rest who could orgasm as a child. I was about 6 or 7 the first time I can remember doing it. Had no idea at the time what it was, but that was it.

 

[darkpenguin]

Riiiight. Sorry, I don't buy it.

I'm with him!

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Man, was I out of touch with my sexuality as a kid, or what? I didn't experience orgasm until my late teens. And I also know a lot of women who either started having orgasms in their thirties or have yet to experience one at all.



The article points out some things that I'll need to meditate on. A lot of things done to me when I was a child ranks right up there with sexual exploitation and abuse.........with having to strip naked and whipped with a belt across my legs and my bottom. Memories I'd prefer not to revisit, but I perhaps will have to considering what the article suggests.



*sigh*



Peace,
Mystic

 

[Ody]

“Spanking on the buttocks can produce definitely erotic sensations, including sexual orgasm, in some children.

:biglaugh:

Kinsey lol!

 

[Comprehend]

Yeah. Cause you're so much smarter than all those experts.

yes. very unbiased information coming from "NOSPANK.NET" you don't think they might be cherry picking scientists? I am sure there are just as many scientists who say the opposite. It appears a few people have changed their viewpoint from the 4 year old abuse thread eh?

The article says:

CHILDREN ARE SEXUAL BEINGS...children are from birth neurologically complete sexual beings who are capable of experiencing erotic sensation.

Spanking as sexual violation
We generally understand that fondling or caressing a child’s buttocks is a sexual offense (even if the child does not understand it to be so)...In any case, freedom from sexual violation is one of the basic tenets of liberty most revered by Americans and by most of the free world. As this principle of inviolacy applies to adults, it should apply equally, if not especially, to children, who are below the age of consent.

...Because the buttocks are so close to the genitals and so multiply linked to sexual nerve centers, slapping them can trigger powerful and involuntary sensations of sexual pleasure.

Now, folks. You have to pick, you can't have it both ways, you can't say that no harm was done to the 4 year old and also hold that spanking is causing sexual harm. :no:

 

[Comprehend]

a few posts from the 4 year old thread to refresh everyone's memory of what conventional wisdom was yesterday.

From the 4 year old molestation thread:

Turk 179 – OP

- So I am sitting there wondering if something with no feelings or knowledge of sexuality can molest something else with no feelings or knowledge of sexuality.

The nature of what they called "abuse" was described in detail but basically it all comes down to the fondling of a little girls private parts by a little boy.


Gnomon – Post 21 - It is not possible for a 4 year old to molest someone. A 4 year cannot receive sexual gratification which is implied by the act of molesting an individual.

Can the adult Western population get dumber? Yes.

Buttercup – Post 25 - By the way....I distinctly remember playing doctor with a boy when we were both 5. Should I file charges retroactively?

looks like winds are blowing the other direction today?

 

[Katzpur]

Read at your own risk. It contains graphic descriptions and content which you may take very, very personally.

But if your mind is completely open, you're never going to look at this issue the same way again.

http://www.nospank.net/sexdngr.htm

That was really an interesting article, Mercy. I can't say that I agree with it 100%, but I certainly do go along with it for the most part. The idea that a child could experience an orgasm by being spanked seems a bit far-fetched to me, but I have always considered spanking a demeaning and unnecessary punishment, for all of the reasons explained in the article. Both of my kids are grown now, but I can't recall ever once having spanked either one of them.

 

[Buttercup]

That second quote you posted distinctly said "can produce" and "some children".

The second quote I mentioned because I was unaware that a child could orgasm and was using the quote for reference. It was the first quote that I thought was exaggerated. Adding your testimony to the pot, I can see that a child can experience orgasm.....odd though it still seems to me. Guess this week when I volunteer at the Relief Nursery I'll be watching more closely.......NOT!

looks like winds are blowing the other direction today?

Not sure why you reference my post from the 4 year old thread. What does that have to do with spanking or orgasm?

 

[darkpenguin]

Spanking is normal, all animals do it or are we forgeting that we are animals?

 

[Ðanisty]

An additional danger is that the confusing mixture of pleasure with pain will become the basis for permanent sadomasochistic tendencies. Sadomasochism, in which a person takes pleasure in inflicting or receiving pain, drives behavior that is destructive to oneself and to others, and therefore to society at large.

I totally disagree with this entire premise. Sadomasochism is not inherently self-destructive and certainly not destructive to those who aren't involved.