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Abiogenesis

Jimmy

King Phenomenon
I think the beginning of life started with "sparks". They were multitude in number and infinitesimal in size and lifespan. These sparks grew in size and lifespan over long periods of time eventually leading to life as we know it. It's actually quite simple when you think about it. As for what these "sparks" were made up of I don't know, as I'm no scientist.

Personally, I don't believe abiogenesis ever took place; but it is fun to think about, if that time had even been allowed to exist.
 

MikeF

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I think the beginning of life started with "sparks". They were multitude in number and infinitesimal in size and lifespan. These sparks grew in size and lifespan over long periods of time eventually leading to life as we know it. It's actually quite simple when you think about it. As for what these "sparks" were made up of I don't know, as I'm no scientist.

Personally, I don't believe abiogenesis ever took place; but it is fun to think about, if that time had even been allowed to exist.

Opinion noted.
 

wellwisher

Well-Known Member
I think the beginning of life started with "sparks". They were multitude in number and infinitesimal in size and lifespan. These sparks grew in size and lifespan over long periods of time eventually leading to life as we know it. It's actually quite simple when you think about it. As for what these "sparks" were made up of I don't know, as I'm no scientist.

Personally, I don't believe abiogenesis ever took place; but it is fun to think about, if that time had even been allowed to exist.
Studies from the 1950's about the origins of Life; Miller Experiments, used electric sparks; arcs, to simulate lightning. Lightning is caused by the movement of water vapor upward in thunder clouds. The Thunderclouds become positive due to all the broken hydrogen bonds.

Water was there at the beginning setting the stage, with one of its many tricks. The water and various gases in the atmosphere, plus the lightning, formed amino acids. If you have hydrogen cyanide gas present; HCN, one can also make nucleic acids. These precursors of life, were then scrubbed out of the atmosphere, with the torrential rain, collecting in the liquid water below. Since the early earth did not have an oxygen atmosphere, these building blocks were less vulnerable to oxidation and would linger and accumulate below.

One of the bottlenecks in Abiogenesis is connected to a bias of a tradition; fossil fuels. Parallel experiments, at the time of Miller, used similar experimental conditions. This team were able to generate complex tars, too complex to analyze. It is very likely the term fossil fuel is a misnomer, since complex hydrocarbons may have been here, way before life, also stemming from lightning and gases, at the same time as the amino acids.

Life would eventually infiltrate these deposits and leave fossils. The bias of the fossil fuel tradition creates a bottleneck to research since is does not allow scientists to polymerize amino acids in oil to form protein. Instead it has to work under the assumption oils came later, instead of at the beginning. The challenge has been to find alternate pathways, that are more round about, instead of direct using early oils; hydrocarbons.

When you polymerize amino acids the products are protein and water. This reaction is inhibited when done in water, since the bulk water will reverse the reaction; stalls. But if we do this in oil, the released water will want to leave the oil due to surface tension, allowing the reaction to go forward.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
I think the beginning of life started with "sparks". They were multitude in number and infinitesimal in size and lifespan. These sparks grew in size and lifespan over long periods of time eventually leading to life as we know it. It's actually quite simple when you think about it. As for what these "sparks" were made up of I don't know, as I'm no scientist.

Personally, I don't believe abiogenesis ever took place; but it is fun to think about, if that time had even been allowed to exist.
Well, close enough I suppose.

Sparks are at least a form of energy although im not aware of any sparks near thermal vents under the ocean, albiet abiogenesis likely started all over the place once conditions are right for it to take hold.

Study up on how RNA and DNA are formed it's pretty fascinating to see and learn how the atoms and molecules create these things with the help of energy.
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
I think the beginning of life started with "sparks". They were multitude in number and infinitesimal in size and lifespan. These sparks grew in size and lifespan over long periods of time eventually leading to life as we know it. It's actually quite simple when you think about it. As for what these "sparks" were made up of I don't know, as I'm no scientist.

Personally, I don't believe abiogenesis ever took place; but it is fun to think about, if that time had even been allowed to exist.
In science, you can't just make stuff up, though. Science works through observational evidence.
 

Jimmy

King Phenomenon
Well, close enough I suppose.

Sparks are at least a form of energy although im not aware of any sparks near thermal vents under the ocean, albiet abiogenesis likely started all over the place once conditions are right for it to take hold.

Study up on how RNA and DNA are formed it's pretty fascinating to see and learn how the atoms and molecules create these things with the help of energy.
It’s probably still goin on right now but it’s just to small to detect.
 

Clizby Wampuscat

Well-Known Member
Does anyone think that the abiogenesis event that took place happened multiple times or can still happen on earth today? We know it happened at least once but why couldn't it have happened multiple times or even today?
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
A common misconception.
These experiments weren't so much about origins of life as they were about organic molecules. Aka, the building blocks of life.
And in that, these experiments were very succesfull.
Not so much a misconception: more a deliberate misrepresentation.

It produced a range of amino acids - the building block of proteins - from an entirely inorganic gas mixture.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Does anyone think that the abiogenesis event that took place happened multiple times or can still happen on earth today? We know it happened at least once but why couldn't it have happened multiple times or even today?
From my understanding it's because conditions were way different back then.

Abiogenesis had started when the early atmosphere wasn't fully developed, but it did start the process involving replication leading to RNA and DNA.
 

Clizby Wampuscat

Well-Known Member
From my understanding it's because conditions were way different back then.

Abiogenesis had started when the early atmosphere wasn't fully developed, but it did start the process involving replication leading to RNA and DNA.
This makes sense. My understanding of evolution is that we can trace all life back to one life starting event, one common ancestor. How do we know this? Couldn't multiple life starting events have happened during this time period? Or am I misunderstanding evolution.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
This makes sense. My understanding of evolution is that we can trace all life back to one life starting event, one common ancestor. How do we know this? Couldn't multiple life starting events have happened during this time period? Or am I misunderstanding evolution.
It's certainly possible.

It's hard to imagine one single source but not hard to envision multiple sources that are compatible.
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I think the beginning of life started with "sparks". They were multitude in number and infinitesimal in size and lifespan. These sparks grew in size and lifespan over long periods of time eventually leading to life as we know it. It's actually quite simple when you think about it. As for what these "sparks" were made up of I don't know, as I'm no scientist.

Personally, I don't believe abiogenesis ever took place; but it is fun to think about, if that time had even been allowed to exist.
What led you to this belief?
You used the term "think," which implies a conclusion extrapolated from objective evidence and reason.

Can you explain more about the mechanisms involved in the abiogenesis, the origins of these sparks, and what part they played in it?
Ta.
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Does anyone think that the abiogenesis event that took place happened multiple times or can still happen on earth today? We know it happened at least once but why couldn't it have happened multiple times or even today?
I don't see why not, though it would be more difficult now the atmosphere is full of a corrosive, very reactive gas.

The 1ry problem would be proliferation. The simple prototypes would be very challenged just to survive, nourish themselves, and reproduce, since, as prototypes, natural selection would have had no chance to iron out the various kinks and design flaws. They'd be exquisitely fragile.
Then there would be competition and predation from the teeming, robust organisms all around them-The original life forms had no competitors or predators. New life would be wiped out almost immediately.
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
From my understanding it's because conditions were way different back then.

Abiogenesis had started when the early atmosphere wasn't fully developed, but it did start the process involving replication leading to RNA and DNA.
How different was "way different?" Do you see chemical evolution as a more difficule process nowadays? If so, in what ways?

"Fully developed?" This implies some developmental goal.
Is today's atmosphere more "developed" than it was four or five billion years ago?
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
Does anyone think that the abiogenesis event that took place happened multiple times or can still happen on earth today? We know it happened at least once but why couldn't it have happened multiple times or even today?

It's probable that abiogenesis happened multiple times but only once was it successful.

I'm not sure it can happen today, environment conditions are vastly different.
 
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